Light and Dark

I've been doing a lot of pondering lately, about something that so many people seem to want to cling to, yet, upon closer examination, I just don't "get" why it has to be this way.

I'm referring to how people are always saying that you have to have the dark, in order to know there is light. In my way of thinking, it's almost like saying you have to see there is a shadow on the ground, to know the sun is shining.

Is it really all that necessary to experience the darkness of negativity, just to know there really is a more positive lighter side to life? Or is it that we all just take the positive stuff for granted so much, that when we experience the negative stuff, we can finally appreciate what we had?

Even society will try to convince us that we absolutely have to have struggles and hardships in order to make life worth living. But I have to wonder if that's just not another way of controlling people through fear, by conditioning them to think they can never achieve true universal peace.

If it were truly possible to achieve a perfect Utopian society, where everyone accepted everyone else for who they were, and there was never a reason to have to struggle for anything, would that really be such a bad thing for human development?

I'm very curious to know what the general thoughts on this is.

[Silver]

Is it really all that necessary to experience the darkness of negativity, just to know there really is a more positive lighter side to life? Or is it that we all just take the positive stuff for granted so much, that when we experience the negative stuff, we can finally appreciate what we had?

Even society will try to convince us that we absolutely have to have struggles and hardships in order to make life worth living. But I have to wonder if that's just not another way of controlling people through fear, by conditioning them to think they can never achieve true universal peace.

I'm suspicious too. Would be nice one day to all spot the man behind the curtain...

[blackraven]

Originally Posted by Trieah

I've been doing a lot of pondering lately, about something that so many people seem to want to cling to, yet, upon closer examination, I just don't "get" why it has to be this way.

I'm referring to how people are always saying that you have to have the dark, in order to know there is light. In my way of thinking, it's almost like saying you have to see there is a shadow on the ground, to know the sun is shining.

Is it really all that necessary to experience the darkness of negativity, just to know there really is a more positive lighter side to life? Or is it that we all just take the positive stuff for granted so much, that when we experience the negative stuff, we can finally appreciate what we had?

Even society will try to convince us that we absolutely have to have struggles and hardships in order to make life worth living. But I have to wonder if that's just not another way of controlling people through fear, by conditioning them to think they can never achieve true universal peace.

If it were truly possible to achieve a perfect Utopian society, where everyone accepted everyone else for who they were, and there was never a reason to have to struggle for anything, would that really be such a bad thing for human development?

I'm very curious to know what the general thoughts on this is.

Trieah - It seems that by the time a person reaches adulthood they have experienced a certain degree of negative circumstances in life enough to recognize a positive experience in comparison. No one, and I mean no one, gets through life in a completely positive bubble. That's not to say that you HAVE to have negative experiences in order to appreciate positive experiences. As I have met positive people who you would have thought to be positive balls of energy their entire lives. But even they have had a few negative experiences along the way. They just never seem to get down or angry or negative like others. So I do think you can have the Utopia type society you speak of with such persons, but in all honesty, real life in general just doesn't provide for life without any negative experiences. Negative experiences don't define us, but they do effect us and get built into our memory bank and make us YEARN for happier experiences. That is what we want for ourselves instead of what we got. Ah, the grass is always greener on the other side. I just think that light and dark as a whole do go hand in hand and that's ok. It's like goodness and evil or anything else that sits at opposite ends of the spectrum. It just balances each other out. It makes sense of life.

Blackraven

[seeker2011]

I think the simple fact is that if there were no hardship or suffering, there would be no reason to turn inward, and look for God's help.

Originally Posted by seeker2011

I think the simple fact is that if there were no hardship or suffering, there would be no reason to turn inward, and look for God's help.

Or, would it then be the "paradise" God intended for us to have all along, before sin was introduced to the world?

Originally Posted by blackraven

I just think that light and dark as a whole do go hand in hand and that's ok. It's like goodness and evil or anything else that sits at opposite ends of the spectrum. It just balances each other out. It makes sense of life. Blackraven

Heh, actually I kind of had goodness and evil in mind when doing all my pondering.

I'm just curious to know if humans really could function well enough, without having any evil or sin. Or have we just been so programed into believing that we must have evil, sin or even negative emotions in order to grow.

Originally Posted by Trieah

I've been doing a lot of pondering lately, about something that so many people seem to want to cling to, yet, upon closer examination, I just don't "get" why it has to be this way.

Some people simply observe what 'is'.. it's not clinging, it's acknowledging the environment you exist in, and moving on..

Originally Posted by Trieah

I'm referring to how people are always saying that you have to have the dark, in order to know there is light. In my way of thinking, it's almost like saying you have to see there is a shadow on the ground, to know the sun is shining.

How about when you notice that the sun isn't shining (night), and then you notice that it is shining (day), you acknowledge those consitions exist..

Originally Posted by Trieah

Is it really all that necessary to experience the darkness of negativity, just to know there really is a more positive lighter side to life? Or is it that we all just take the positive stuff for granted so much, that when we experience the negative stuff, we can finally appreciate what we had?

If the only color you ever experienced, ever, was white.. how would you know what black is? there is no relationship that requires associating light with positive and black with negative, that is just an arbitrary association of desirability..

Originally Posted by Trieah

Even society will try to convince us that we absolutely have to have struggles and hardships in order to make life worth living. But I have to wonder if that's just not another way of controlling people through fear, by conditioning them to think they can never achieve true universal peace.

I haven't noticed society doing that.. in fact, i find Life worth living regardless of what people tell me.. why would anyone condition us that we "can never achieve true universal peace", there would be no reason to try?

Originally Posted by Trieah

If it were truly possible to achieve a perfect Utopian society, where everyone accepted everyone else for who they were, and there was never a reason to have to struggle for anything, would that really be such a bad thing for human development?

I'm very curious to know what the general thoughts on this is.

I don't know.. what i do know is that there are gross inequalities in the human experience right here, right now.. and, if we spend our time wishing for something 'in the future' without fixing 'right now', that future will always be the future, never a 'now'..

There have been groups of very righteous and 'good' people throughout history that have moved away from society to preserve their 'goodness', only to reveal their own division into greater and lesser versions of 'goodness', and.. eventually to cast-out some of their own members as not good enough.. nature, and the human spirit, reveal that contrast and change keep Life from growing stagnate..

Human nature, like nature itself, is capable of a broad spectrum of activity, understanding, and belief.. the ideas of 'struggle' or of 'good and bad' are subjective and arbitrary.. it is noteworthy how easy it is to conceive of "Utopia" and ask why not, and equally easy to reject that which we find undesirable, but.. i find my "Utopia" is an honest and sincere awareness of Life, appreciating equally that which confirms my existence, whether it is deisirable or not.. i find "Utopia" in working with others to improve the human condition for as many of my brothers and sisters as my meager means allow..

If everywhere you looked there was only the light of the shining sun, there would be no reason/comparison for using the phrase 'sunlight', it would be everywhere and no darkness, not even shadows (it's everywhere).. it's easy to imagine "Utopia", but there are no actual examples.. H. G. Wells' book, 'The Time Machine", and subsequent movies, illustrate a Utopia, and the price that must be paid gor its appearance.. the inhabitants allow themselves to be 'food' for the creators and maintenance of the 'Utopia'.. is 30 years of Utopia more desirable than 60 years of accounting for your own existence?

If every apple you tasted was perfectly desirable, you would have no reference for saying it was desirable or good.. it would be the same expected average that it always is, no change is also no reference for good or bad.. just sameness..

Be well..

Greetings..

"The Man Behind the Curtain" is you.. it's the truth people don't like to know.. you are what you have chosen to be, not by some cosmic contract, but.. in every moment of your existence, you choose to change with Life unfolding, or to keep doing what you have always done..

Be well..

[Silver]

I haven't noticed society doing that.. in fact, i find Life worth living regardless of what people tell me.. why would anyone condition us that we "can never achieve true universal peace", there would be no reason to try?

Maybe it's not society that is meant, but what is commonly referred to as 'the powers that be' i.e. the 'military/gov/industrial complex' and the typical thinking that goes with it. It may be as close to something one can put their finger on as anything for thinking along those lines...

[Silver]

Originally Posted by TzuJanLi

Greetings..

"The Man Behind the Curtain" is you.. it's the truth people don't like to know.. you are what you have chosen to be, not by some cosmic contract, but.. in every moment of your existence, you choose to change with Life unfolding, or to keep doing what you have always done..

Be well..

Nah, and I don't subscribe to a 'cosmic contract', either. I don't believe in real magic that affects the gp and I don't believe you have to subscribe to conspiracy theories to understand the whomever makes the gold makes the rules thingy.

gee..I need a cool tag line~*