The Catholic Mass.

[The Sea]

On you tube i can watch live transmissions of Mass from my catholic church, i watched one a few days ago.

Im sure little has changed over centuries, and of course change will be deemed a sin. A lot of it seems wothless, just repeating the same phrases over and over, mass after mass, year after year, the sermons repeat themselves, and are only given after the ok from higher up.

The music, sung, is also very old, and to be honest, not good, and in latin, i dont understand it anyway, im sure it says the same things.

What i would like to see is at least a ten minute meditation, there is a chance for silent prayer, about ten seconds, meditation, confronting your own thoughts, feelings, life, can only be good, genuine change can come from that.

I would also like to see deeper interpretations of the bible, for longer, surely that is of immense worth, like it is done on here.

And maybe if people are brave enough, public confessions, that no one is perfect, that we are all flawed and all is but a step to greater things. Of you scratch the surface of anyones life, its not up to scrutiny.

If you dont see it, examine it, see it for what it is, how can it be fixed?

The answer is is that it cant. This just for starters, that mass would be of worth, not a pre packaged nonsense like it is now.

[sky]

[Quote The Sea "The music, sung, is also very old, and to be honest, not good, and in latin, i dont understand it anyway, im sure it says the same things."]

If you don't understand it in Latin how do you know it says the same thing . Why is it 'not good' ?

Originally Posted by The Sea

If you dont see it, examine it, see it for what it is, how can it be fixed?
The answer is is that it cant. This just for starters, that mass would be of worth, not a pre packaged nonsense like it is now.

The Sea,

On the surface these lamentations seem largely justified….that is, to our logical and rational minds. That said, there is value in repetition and communion with others that might be hard to quantify…..but it is real. There is a value in the perceiving of a lack of being relative and meaningful. And that is to encourage us to initiate a personal quest rather than expecting to be spoon fed. I am not Catholic but I have always felt the presence of God whenever I have entered a cathedral……

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, this is all your opinion and on this Forum ...we'd like you to say that -just a simple ''imo'' would suffice,

Why do you say change would be deemed a sin. Then Vatican II was a sin?
What you bring up, I believe, may be a reason why people have left the RCC.
(Roman Catholic Church)
"Nonsense" is a strong word and would hurt Catholics feelings mocking their Mass...walking on thin ice here.
Many Catholics, I think would say,' Sure, maybe it is repetitious, but I go for the Eucharist* or Holy Communion...not the priest, the sermon or songs'.
The repeating of phrases HAS a purpose...now, if it is done mindlessly with no sincerity that is 'on the person', not the RCC.
Each priest and sermon is different --sometimes the sermon DOES do a great interpretation of the few Bible verses they say.

The RCC Mass is mainly about receiving Communion, tho, as many would say.
And when that is done - the Mass is over.

*That 'wafer' or host that is transformed into the body of Christ. The entire Mass is called the Eucharist ---tho, not often.

[Gem]

I'm more into Buddhist things than Christian things, but I find the same problems as you. It's constrained to a particular type of discourse. I want to find excellent essays, talks and videos that unpack the philosophical principles, but on the whole it seems a little bit flat. I'm not religious anyway so I don't care that much, but the religion makes the narrative repetitive aka predictable because they're using it to (re)affirm the organisation.

What we have here is the failure to see the beauty of imperfection. I had the bright idea to Google that thinking that others have recognized this……and I discovered much to support that thought. I would suggest that others do likewise….there is much to contemplate…….

[sky]

Originally Posted by Molearner

What we have here is the failure to see the beauty of imperfection.

There's no perfection without imperfection ....

[keiw1]

The answer is is that it cant. This just for starters, that mass would be of worth, not a pre packaged nonsense like it is now.[/quote]

Jesus told his real teachers to teach( the flock) ALL that he commanded--In every church on earth, very little of what Jesus actually taught gets taught. Dogmas get taught. Mans dogmas that are all different in those religions= a mass of confusion. They cant even understand this simple bible milk= a true mark of Jesus' 1 religion=1Cor 1:10- Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division.
The real Jesus promised his real teachers that when he sent the holy spirit, it would guide them into ALL truth. Proving those religions lack holy spirit because they have different truths. Thus do not belong to Jesus.

[Gem]

Actually, perfection is beautiful, so that's what we're go for and we do the best we can.

The face of religion is shallow and contrived because it's the one dimensional face they show on parade. To be nuanced and sophisticated they'd have to be real but they can't be because there's a monstrous side we all know about, but can't really show. If you look into it too closely you find the horror of the real, so we overlay a conceptual filter to blot out vile elements. The totality is 'repulsive' (to use the Buddhist vernacular), so we all agree to pretend that the beautiful overlay is the whole of the real while knowing it appears so in absence of the totality. Hence we see a made up face that accentuates the highlights hides the blemishes. For better or worse, this results in a superficial standardised presentation that has no real depth.

I get the whole picture because I've taken the journey from wide eyed novice to trustee on the board and have seen the surface of spiritual practice to the politics behind the scenes. My organisation fortunately has very sound moral foundations and a code of conduct that makes corruption and degeneracy practically impossible. It has all the protections that make it a proper safe refuge, but still, with all the in's and outs, you gotta take the good with the bad.

[sky]

The earliest and most detailed account of the Eucharist is found in St. Paul's First Epistle to the Corinthians, which, of course, predates the Gospels, and was written in Ephesus between 52-55 A.D. Scholars agree that the Consecration formula used by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians, Chapter 11, quotes verbatim from a stylized formula already in use in the Apostolic liturgy. St. Paul's account reads:

For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: This is My Body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of Me.
In like manner also the chalice, after He had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in My Blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of Me. For as often as you shall eat this Bread, and drink the Chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until He come.

Therefore whosoever shall eat this Bread, or drink the Chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the Body and of the Blood of the Lord. [1 Cor: 11: 23-]


http://www.catholictradition.org/Euc...ss-history.htm