The Epidemic of Uncaring Apathy

[Shivani Devi]

I originally posted this in the Christianity forum, but I feel that it belongs here..

Although I may have "vested interests" in this topic, there is a subtle truth in what I am about to say...and what better place to say it than in the Christianity forum?

I may even make another thread on it!

True kindness, appreciation, concern and generosity comes from the heart.
True recognition, expression, gratitude and service comes from the heart.

However, there is an overarching judgment of motives, intent and allegations which then becomes assigned to the "beneficiary" of heartfelt actions and then blatantly reinforced by social peers, cues and norms.

For examples:

"You should not give that person anything because it will only contribute to their greed/laziness. They should go out and get a job".

"You should not help that person out because it will stop them from seeking help elsewhere. Others are in a better position to help your friend than you are so just forget it".

"You should never say nice things about anybody else because it is only "stroking their ego" they need to learn things for themselves".

....and on and on this goes.

In this day and age, being kind, helpful and considerate is seen as "EMOTIONAL ENABLING" and there is zero tolerance within society for any form of "enabling" because it is seen as a very bad thing.

As a child, I was denied love because all those around me did not want to "enable" me to become dependent on anybody else for anything or any need...just total self-dependence and self-reliance.

Yet as I grew, everybody did not understand why it was I was so damn selfish and never learned to put the needs of another before my own...it was because I was never TAUGHT to do it and I felt those who admonished me (my parents, mainly) had the bloody audacity to do so!

So, when one witholds love, kindness, compassion, consideration etc of COURSE it is going to force the other to turn within...but NOT to any kind of "spiritual pursuits" oh no! they turn within to give THEMSELVES those things that others refuse to give them, overcompensating in the process, and becoming cold, uncaring, selfish and unkind themselves. Others are causing MORE harm by refusing to "enable"...not minimising the harm as they mistakenly believe.

I think it's more complicated than that. These days there seems a great suspicion about an act of charity (or help or service) unless it comes with some kind of official badge. Not in every case but I've noticed a tendency. Perhaps it's always been there and I hadn't noticed. Sometimes you offer a charitable act and the person looks on you as if you're insulting their competence or status.

But I also think knowing why you perform an act of caring / charity takes a knowledge of Self so you evaluate your motives. If it's to be seen to be charitable, to win Brownie points or to feel yourself essential - nothing wrong with that but be aware it's about ones kudos.

Otherwise, unless it's genuinely to help someone fallen (figuratively, perhaps literally) back on their feet - or simply a glancing moment to help someone struggling, one has to ask whether 'giving help' is making someone lazy (because they're perfectly able to make an effort if they got off their butt) or pushing them further into some harmful situation i.e. acting the facilitator. (I've watched TV programs of extremely obese people pleading 'I need help. I can do nothing without help' yet there they are stuffing their faces when they're riddled with self-pity and dependent on others catering to their every whim. They've no intention of helping themselves. Is tough love more appropriate in their cases or not?)

Then again, is giving money to (obvious) druggies begging on the street helping them? I was involved in an incident recently. I'd bought a couple of sandwiches for the people in our local esoteric shop; happened to pass this emaciated creature slumped in a doorway looking hopefully up at me (a cloth before him to toss coins onto). I said I have no money but you're welcome to the sandwiches. He took them, looked at them a few seconds then angrily threw them to the ground. I suppose he wanted money for drugs.

However, until recently when work became a higher priority I volunteered in a food bank. I donated to it. It helped people who had genuinely become destitute - but there it is, it operated under an official banner.

Be charitable when you feel like it but take care you aren't worsening someone's situation.

As for Christianity...I noticed an article in the Telegraph that shows just how malign the Anglican church is getting. A new fund-raiser has been hired. Bleed the vulnerable elderly and forgetful.
(It's a "premium" article so only available in full to subscribers. However, the headline and what can be read is enough....):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-chief-says/
.
Good - innit?

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I think it's more complicated than that. These days there seems a great suspicion about an act of charity (or help or service) unless it comes with some kind of official badge. Not in every case but I've noticed a tendency. Perhaps it's always been there and I hadn't noticed. Sometimes you offer a charitable act and the person looks on you as if you're insulting their competence or status.

But I also think knowing why you perform an act of caring / charity takes a knowledge of Self so you evaluate your motives. If it's to be seen to be charitable, to win Brownie points or to feel yourself essential - nothing wrong with that but be aware it's about ones kudos.

Otherwise, unless it's genuinely to help someone fallen (figuratively, perhaps literally) back on their feet - or simply a glancing moment to help someone struggling, one has to ask whether 'giving help' is making someone lazy (because they're perfectly able to make an effort if they got off their butt) or pushing them further into some harmful situation i.e. acting the facilitator. (I've watched TV programs of extremely obese people pleading 'I need help. I can do nothing without help' yet there they are stuffing their faces when they're riddled with self-pity and dependent on others catering to their every whim. They've no intention of helping themselves. Is tough love more appropriate in their cases or not?)

Then again, is giving money to (obvious) druggies begging on the street helping them? I was involved in an incident recently. I'd bought a couple of sandwiches for the people in our local esoteric shop; happened to pass this emaciated creature slumped in a doorway looking hopefully up at me (a cloth before him to toss coins onto). I said I have no money but you're welcome to the sandwiches. He took them, looked at them a few seconds then angrily threw them to the ground. I suppose he wanted money for drugs.

However, until recently when work became a higher priority I volunteered in a food bank. I donated to it. It helped people who had genuinely become destitute - but there it is, it operated under an official banner.

Be charitable when you feel like it but take care you aren't worsening someone's situation.
As for Christianity...I noticed an article in the Telegraph that shows just how malign the Anglican church is getting. A new fund-raiser has been hired. Bleed the vulnerable elderly and forgetful.
(It's a "premium" article so only available to subscribers. However, the headline and what can be read is enough....):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ng-chief-says/
.
Good - innit?

Of course I understand this, because I was in the Welfare profession myself, but I feel that it goes a lot deeper as you said...to the core/soul of humanity itself.

Again we shall take those three examples...just take out the "excuses" from them and work with those..

"Why don't you get a job?"

Imagine it, if you will, everybody who is unemployed between 18 and 80, receiving benefit or not, disabled or not in the whole wide world "getting a job" tommorrow...would there even BE enough work for even 1℅ of them all? and if they decided to become self-employed, what could they possibly do that nobody has ever done before to make money? but nope, they do not "deserve" any help because they are unmotivated (lazy) to go out looking for something that just ain't there.

"Others can offer your friend more help than you can".

What if all your friend needs is a listening ear? a hug? help/support to seek the correct services? somebody to be there and hold his hand? but oh no...this is something the friend must do on his OWN...problem is, he doesn't know how and just needs a friend...

So we go to the last one...

"Kind words are only ego stroking".

If you knew that by saying "you are a beautiful soul" or "I love You" would bring immediate enlightenment/nirvana to another person, would you say it? or withold any outward display of affection to keep the other stuck in ignorance based on their misjudging of human character? aIso, it the case of "I want you to be EXACTLY on the same vibration that I am on, so you can totally forget me being nice to you...besides that, a friend I value more than I value you or myself has told me that I should NOT be telling you how wonderful you are, so I won't anymore...because that is something you should KNOW already"...but in most cases, hearing THEMSELVES constantly affirm how wonderful they are has become SO passe, they refuse to believe it anymore unless another person confirms it...or they only feel as if they have been lying to themselves their whole life and they really are a horrible person because THAT is why nobody else is telling them how beautful and wonderful they are..

Thereby hangs the sad tale.

[Shivani Devi]

As for the overeaters...the obese people...those with addictions in the first place...

You can bet your bottom dollar that all of them were neglected, abused and traumatised in their childhood and adolesence....bashed and bullied both at home and at school for being "different".

God only knows, I have had my fair share of addictions...to drugs, to food, to expensive clothes (that no longer fit me).

It is NOT a case of removing/limiting the substance they are addicted to to "help" them lose weight...stop taking drugs etc because they will just replace one addiction with another until the CAUSE of their addiction has been "helped" and successively "healed" and this is what they mean when the obese person says they need "help" but can't stop stuffing their face with food...eating becomes a subconscious/unconscious action they CANNOT "help"...like breathing...like a heart beat.

I would also like to bet they are overcompensating internally from a lack of love, self-worth, appreciation, affection etc so they fill the gap with food because they "deserve it"...they deserve to feel good about themselves and god knows, OTHER people only hate on them...they only are able to get positive emotional feedback FROM themselves (because others can't be ar$ed to give it) and the only way they know how to generate that love within, to feel 'cared for' is to serve themselves by eating...it is "comfort eating" in retrospect...for every painful and miserable moment in their lives which has been instigated by the uncaring attitude of other people...

Yes, it totally relates.

Good thread.

[TheGlow]

Why does it matter what society says? They are wrong about most stuff, I think that’s basically one take away from all human history. They get it wrong.

Slavery, genocide, raceism, sexism, war over resources, killing gay people, preventing their love from being seen as equal to straight peoples, putting money before each other, valuing exterior beauty over the beauty of the soul, profits over the planet, etc.

Society gets most stuff wrong. I listen to people everyday that need an ear or love. I may be seen as soft or caring to much vs getting what they can give me in return, but so what. Care. Give what you feel you are guided to give.

Be the change, or just be yourself and try not to judge yourself by the worlds standards :) they haven’t gotten much right so trust yourself if you feel guided by the love within you to help.

Great topic. It is a real issue indeed.

[inavalan]

Who can be sure he/she is 100% right (about things that matter)? Can you be sure what really matters? Can you identify somebody who is 100% right?

As all of the above have negative answers, the next best thing is to do only what you think is right, with the awareness that you might be wrong, and have to adjust accordingly.

There are too many people doing things that they should better be apathetic about.

Is it better to do something wrong than not do anything? In some cases: definitely! In others: no!

[iamthat]

I was intending to meditate on the theme of The Epidemic of Uncaring Apathy, but then I thought "Why bother?"

Peace.

[Blue Tiger]

Great thread. I too have wondered why so many people take a negative view of any attempts to help others.

For the most part, I help when I feel it is right and then I keep it to myself. I think that's a shame, as others would benefit from knowing that some people do in fact care. Many are afraid to speak up, for fear of being politically incorrect!

I realize that some believe giving cash to the down and out doesn't help them. Long term, maybe not. But for that moment, for that space of time, that person knows that someone actually cares and wishes better things for them. If they choose to use the cash for a meal or liquor or whatever, that is their choice. My gift to them is a gift, no strings attached, a gift of hope and choices. I'm under no delusion that a few dollars will make a sudden turn around in the life of a homeless person... but the kindness may start a process of working toward something better.