Something deeper behind desires a NEW participant gets in the need to uphold traditio

[pf2222]

I am trying to form a general opinion on life because, well that's the only interesting thing in life lol.

I hate traditions. To me it's all political, individuals pushing it, governments agreeing. So in the end it's like a rule.

So I'm trying to find an acceptable spiritual link to traditions and terms similar to that. I have been linked about the Maori culture. And based on that it seems for them it's mostly the desire for a spiritual increase in power, which is derived from get togethers. But only get togethers are need for that in my opinion. So what's with the practices they and any tradition performs? Is it just an outlet used to balance spiritual energy of each participant? Now if that's the case... why do modern-minded people (Considering maori are a tribe or something like that, they're spiritual from the get go and see everything in a spiritual way) decide to pursue a tradition. You see my quest here is to find what unconscious spiritual desire is forming in their head. As we can only ever define it as mere interest which is the case but not a definite case for every human.

Can curiousity really that fast create the desire to push (promote) something? Or is the sense of belonging so so so big that the desire establishes itself instantly upon joining in traditional practices? Again that may be the case for some people but I think other than that there's a bigger unconscious reason on a major scale.

Just as a flower invokes a positive vision or thought

It's probably possible to unintentionally separate a part of your frequency or imbue your frequency in a way to an object, song, art piece which in turn will affect someone else. By that newer generations could be impacted into wearing traditional clothing (or something else tied with tradition) because that spark that's left in it is affecting them.

While I believe that it's definitely the case with songs and emotions and words. I fail to find a connection in the need to convey traditions..


Maybe

- the same situation/s is a result of the individual simply being interested in something/said object.

Or - It's a psychological sense of belonging that's at fault. (then again is there a spiritual explanation or connection to this "sense"?)

Or - something else, or even all of them


All in all I think I'm missing out on some possibillities here, I'd like to hear your opinions in depth as to what might be happening to individuals wishing to take part in traditions. Of course it can be simple interest, and all of these situations are definitely true depending on the individual person. But I think there might be more going on. I just want more thoughts on this matter

[iamthat]

There are many traditions out there, and some will resonate with us more than others. This may be due to past-life connections with a particular tradition, or it may be that the practices and goals of certain traditions match our own tendencies and aspirations.

So people who are more devotional by nature may be drawn to Christian mysticism or Sufism or Bhakti Yoga. Others may be drawn to the simplicity of Zen or Taoism or Avdaita. And others may be attracted by the mental philosophies of Buddhism. For others, the spiritual connection to Nature may appeal, such as the Native American traditions. Some people enjoy rituals, others avoid rituals. We are all different.

I have a general interest in a wide variety of traditions, but I am naturally drawn to Indian spirituality combining the practices of Yoga with the philosophy of Advaita. I am happy to follow this path as a Westerner without the need to adopt Indian dress or to create an Indian environment in my home. I consider the path of the Yogi to offer a certain freedom of practice and independence from tradition, which may not be available in some other traditions.

We may begin by following this tradition or that tradition, but eventually we realise that we are the path we tread, and Truth is a pathless land. Other teachers may point the way, but the real Teacher is within.

Peace.

Originally Posted by pf2222

So I'm trying to find an acceptable spiritual link to traditions and terms similar to that.

Every religion was right for that culture at that time, and the only way to make sense of them is to place them back into the time and culture they came from. They're a reflection or expression of the people that Lived it.

Originally Posted by pf2222

You see my quest here is to find what unconscious spiritual desire is forming in their head.

What is a Spiritual desire? The problem is that little word - "Spiritual." Is a desire different because it has that word in front of it?

Originally Posted by pf2222

Again that may be the case for some people but I think other than that there's a bigger unconscious reason on a major scale.

It's the herding instinct and good old group dynamics.

Originally Posted by pf2222

- the same situation/s is a result of the individual simply being interested in something/said object.

Or - It's a psychological sense of belonging that's at fault. (then again is there a spiritual explanation or connection to this "sense"?)

Or - something else, or even all of them

Yes, yes and yes. It's very natural for people who have specific interests to seek out those that have the same interests, people have been doing it since we came out of the trees I guess and survival was an interest. The other personal aspects to consider are motivations and agenda - everybody has a reason for what they do. In that respect Spiritual people are no different to football fans or those that gathered together for survival. You talked about the "unconscious Spiritual desire" but while the desire is unconscious it's not Spiritual, Spiritual is the context in which the unconscious herding instinct plays itself out. Sometimes Spiritual people can feel as though they go into 'survival mode' because they feel threatened or alienated from those non-Spiritual lions and tigers and bears, oh my. Nobody wants to be the lonely kid in the playground and sometimes we never really grow out of that.

Much of this has very little to do with Spirituality but that depends on the definitions. It's essentially good old human nature that underpins Spirituality and what confuses the issue is tagging it as 'Spiritual'. "Sometimes people are just people, man."

Preserving Spiritual traditions is not that different from preserving old traditions of farming or steam engines, many people think that often the old ways are the best. The past holds sway for many people, often it can give them a glimpse of how their predecessors lived, and that can give them a sense of belonging. And of course the good old traditions of Christmas, birthdays..... Someone gets something out of it.

[PatThagoras]

"So I'm trying to find an acceptable spiritual link to traditiouns and terms similar to that." I think there are some other questions you also had, but I feel like maybe I can add something here that hasn't quite been said yet.

My only thought is that these traditions were, indeed, made by people. People who had cravings in common with other people, and created said traditions to satisfy those desires. So perhaps people living in the same culture might recognize these "traditions" as an honest pursuit of something deeply valuable that is also within themselves. Or something like that.

Now, I'm not quite sure what questions your asking, or exactly what "tradition" means here. But if you want to know what a specific tradition is doing... It will probably already be doing the best it can to explain that to you, in the language and culture of the people who wrote them. It would be wise to work with the other people from the past who have spent a lot of time doing whateveritis... And may have something valuable for you... but only if you can read what they wrote!

That's all I have. I hope its as good for you as it was for me :)


also, Greenslade :Sometimes Spiritual people can feel as though they go into 'survival mode' because they feel threatened or alienated from those non-Spiritual lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

Where do I learn more about THAT? lol

Originally Posted by PatThagoras

My only thought is that these traditions were, indeed, made by people.

Yes they were, and if you understand people you understand all about traditions, where they come from and the hows and whys they are perpetuated. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Spiritual or any other tradition - Spiritual traditions are not different just because there's a label change. Today's Spirituality is really asking the same questions that were probably asked by cavemen and most likely for the same reasons - one of the reasons that made Christianity so popular and survives to this day. Did you know that archaeologists think that cavemen practised the Law of Attraction?

Originally Posted by PatThagoras

also, Greenslade :Sometimes Spiritual people can feel as though they go into 'survival mode' because they feel threatened or alienated from those non-Spiritual lions and tigers and bears, oh my.

Where do I learn more about THAT? lol

Look in the mirror. Spirituality - and pretty much everything else including the cars we drive - are expressions of what we have inside. If you want to learn about it, look up cognitive dissonance, limbic system - whose primary function is survival, and how the subconsciousness operates, specifically about how decisions are made.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by pf2222

So I'm trying to find an acceptable spiritual link to traditions and terms similar to that. I have been linked about the Maori culture. And based on that it seems for them it's mostly the desire for a spiritual increase in power, which is derived from get togethers. But only get togethers are need for that in my opinion. So what's with the practices they and any tradition performs? Is it just an outlet used to balance spiritual energy of each participant? Now if that's the case... why do modern-minded people (Considering maori are a tribe or something like that, they're spiritual from the get go and see everything in a spiritual way) decide to pursue a tradition.

A couple of thoughts on the Maori, whose spiritual traditions form part of modern New Zealand culture. For example:

• It is quite normal for the opening of a new building or a new park to include a gathering of representatives of the local iwi (tribe) to perform a ceremony blessing the occasion.
• From the NZ Herald: A swamp-dwelling taniwha has halted work on part of the Waikato expressway near Meremere after iwi pointed out its presence. Transit New Zealand has ordered a stop to work on 100m of the highway project until a meeting can be held with the north Waikato hapu Ngati Naho, a subtribe of Tainui. Taniwha are spiritual creatures regarded as guardians of the Waikato River.
• Matariki, or the Maori New Year, is based around the rising of the Pleiades in mid-winter. Interesting how the Pleiades are connected to various spiritual traditions.

The Maori language can be very poetic. The Maori for New Zealand is Aotearoa (the land of the long white cloud). The longest place name in New Zealand is Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateaturipukakapiki maungahoronukupokaiwhenuakitanatahu which means "the place where Tamatea, the man with the big knees, who slid, climbed and swallowed mountains, known as 'landeater’, played his flute to his loved one."

It's an interesting place to live.

Peace.

[iamthat]

And a Maori poem you may enjoy:

My Law

The sun may be clouded, yet ever the sun
Will sweep on its course till the Cycle
is run. And when into chaos the system is hurled
Again shall the Builder reshape a new world.

Your path may be clouded, uncertain your goal:
Move on for your orbit is fixed to your soul.
And though it may lead into darkness of night
The torch of the Builder shall give it new light.

You were. You will be! Know this while you are:
Your spirit has travelled both long and afar.
It came from the Source, to the Source it returns
The Spark which was lighted eternally burns.

It slept in a jewel. It leapt in a wave.
It roamed in the forest. It rose from the grave.
It took on strange garbs for long aeons of years
And now in the soul of yourself It appears.

From body to body your spirit speeds on
It seeks a new form when the old one has gone
And the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought
On the loom of the Mind from the fibre of Thought.

As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend
Your thoughts drift away and in Destiny blend.
You cannot escape them, for petty or great,
Or evil or noble, they fashion your Fate.

Somewhere on some planet, sometime and somehow
Your life will reflect your thoughts of your Now.
My Law is unerring, no blood can atone
The structure you built you will live in alone.

From cycle to cycle, through time and through space
Your lives with your longings will ever keep pace
And all that you ask for, and all you desire
Must come at your bidding, as flame out of fire.

Once list’ to that Voice and all tumuIt is done
Your life is the Life of the Infinite One.
In the hurrying race you are conscious of pause
With love for the purpose, and love for the Cause.

You are your own Devil, you are your own God
You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
And no one can save you from Error or Sin
Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.

Peace.

[Ziusudra]

Originally Posted by iamthat

And a Maori poem you may enjoy:

My Law

The sun may be clouded, yet ever the sun
Will sweep on its course till the Cycle
is run. And when into chaos the system is hurled
Again shall the Builder reshape a new world.

Your path may be clouded, uncertain your goal:
Move on for your orbit is fixed to your soul.
And though it may lead into darkness of night
The torch of the Builder shall give it new light.

You were. You will be! Know this while you are:
Your spirit has travelled both long and afar.
It came from the Source, to the Source it returns
The Spark which was lighted eternally burns.

It slept in a jewel. It leapt in a wave.
It roamed in the forest. It rose from the grave.
It took on strange garbs for long aeons of years
And now in the soul of yourself It appears.

From body to body your spirit speeds on
It seeks a new form when the old one has gone
And the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought
On the loom of the Mind from the fibre of Thought.

As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend
Your thoughts drift away and in Destiny blend.
You cannot escape them, for petty or great,
Or evil or noble, they fashion your Fate.

Somewhere on some planet, sometime and somehow
Your life will reflect your thoughts of your Now.
My Law is unerring, no blood can atone
The structure you built you will live in alone.

From cycle to cycle, through time and through space
Your lives with your longings will ever keep pace
And all that you ask for, and all you desire
Must come at your bidding, as flame out of fire.

Once list’ to that Voice and all tumuIt is done
Your life is the Life of the Infinite One.
In the hurrying race you are conscious of pause
With love for the purpose, and love for the Cause.

You are your own Devil, you are your own God
You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
And no one can save you from Error or Sin
Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.

Peace.

I love this Maori poem! Thanks for sharing it.
When was it written?

Originally Posted by iamthat

And a Maori poem you may enjoy:

My Law

The sun may be clouded, yet ever the sun
Will sweep on its course till the Cycle
is run. And when into chaos the system is hurled
Again shall the Builder reshape a new world.

Your path may be clouded, uncertain your goal:
Move on for your orbit is fixed to your soul.
And though it may lead into darkness of night
The torch of the Builder shall give it new light.

You were. You will be! Know this while you are:
Your spirit has travelled both long and afar.
It came from the Source, to the Source it returns
The Spark which was lighted eternally burns.

It slept in a jewel. It leapt in a wave.
It roamed in the forest. It rose from the grave.
It took on strange garbs for long aeons of years
And now in the soul of yourself It appears.

From body to body your spirit speeds on
It seeks a new form when the old one has gone
And the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought
On the loom of the Mind from the fibre of Thought.

As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend
Your thoughts drift away and in Destiny blend.
You cannot escape them, for petty or great,
Or evil or noble, they fashion your Fate.

Somewhere on some planet, sometime and somehow
Your life will reflect your thoughts of your Now.
My Law is unerring, no blood can atone
The structure you built you will live in alone.

From cycle to cycle, through time and through space
Your lives with your longings will ever keep pace
And all that you ask for, and all you desire
Must come at your bidding, as flame out of fire.

Once list’ to that Voice and all tumuIt is done
Your life is the Life of the Infinite One.
In the hurrying race you are conscious of pause
With love for the purpose, and love for the Cause.

You are your own Devil, you are your own God
You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
And no one can save you from Error or Sin
Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.

Peace.

WOW.

That's really wonderful, thanks for sharing it, iamthat.

Also interested in genesis.

JL

Originally Posted by pf2222

I am trying to form a general opinion on life because, well that's the only interesting thing in life lol.

I hate traditions. To me it's all political, individuals pushing it, governments agreeing. So in the end it's like a rule.

So I'm trying to find an acceptable spiritual link to traditions and terms similar to that. I have been linked about the Maori culture. And based on that it seems for them it's mostly the desire for a spiritual increase in power, which is derived from get togethers. But only get togethers are need for that in my opinion. So what's with the practices they and any tradition performs? Is it just an outlet used to balance spiritual energy of each participant? Now if that's the case... why do modern-minded people (Considering maori are a tribe or something like that, they're spiritual from the get go and see everything in a spiritual way) decide to pursue a tradition. You see my quest here is to find what unconscious spiritual desire is forming in their head. As we can only ever define it as mere interest which is the case but not a definite case for every human.

Can curiousity really that fast create the desire to push (promote) something? Or is the sense of belonging so so so big that the desire establishes itself instantly upon joining in traditional practices? Again that may be the case for some people but I think other than that there's a bigger unconscious reason on a major scale.

Just as a flower invokes a positive vision or thought

It's probably possible to unintentionally separate a part of your frequency or imbue your frequency in a way to an object, song, art piece which in turn will affect someone else. By that newer generations could be impacted into wearing traditional clothing (or something else tied with tradition) because that spark that's left in it is affecting them.

While I believe that it's definitely the case with songs and emotions and words. I fail to find a connection in the need to convey traditions..


Maybe

- the same situation/s is a result of the individual simply being interested in something/said object.

Or - It's a psychological sense of belonging that's at fault. (then again is there a spiritual explanation or connection to this "sense"?)

Or - something else, or even all of them


All in all I think I'm missing out on some possibillities here, I'd like to hear your opinions in depth as to what might be happening to individuals wishing to take part in traditions. Of course it can be simple interest, and all of these situations are definitely true depending on the individual person. But I think there might be more going on. I just want more thoughts on this matter

Tradition is just another word

If you like eating, and someone cooked the world's best, most fabulous, divine tasting sponge cake, and others learnt and taught others, is that somehow some weird psychological problem.

Humans are by nature social creatures - community types. Even the "goths" and so called rebels are funny because they then create their own "rebelling outside of society" society.

Not worth it, in my view. Here's some cake, enjoy!

JL