Spiritual Forums

Home


Donate!


Articles


CHAT!


Shop


 
Welcome to Spiritual Forums!.

We created this community for people from all backgrounds to discuss Spiritual, Paranormal, Metaphysical, Philosophical, Supernatural, and Esoteric subjects. From Astral Projection to Zen, all topics are welcome. We hope you enjoy your visits.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to most discussions and articles. By joining our free community you will be able to post messages, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos, and gain access to our Chat Rooms, Registration is fast, simple, and free, so please, join our community today! !

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, check our FAQs before contacting support. Please read our forum rules, since they are enforced by our volunteer staff. This will help you avoid any infractions and issues.

Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Christianity

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-10-2017, 09:01 PM
Tedmil Tedmil is offline
Knower
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 100
 
Heaven: Easy vs. hard life

Suppose two souls enter heaven. By God's will the two souls had extreme routes in life. One grew up poor, struggled in life, often hungry, had no friends or family, faced many hardships and generally suffered their entire life. While the other was born with money, had many opportunities and varied experiences, had many friends, had a happy marriage with a loving family, and generally had what most would call a great life.

During the next eternity, would there be any differences in what the souls experience in heaven based on how their lives went? The soul who had a richer life, with extended friends and family would they necessary have a richer experience in heaven being reunited with all the people they had ties during life?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:39 PM
Jeremy Bong Jeremy Bong is offline
Master
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 4,405
  Jeremy Bong's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedmil
Suppose two souls enter heaven. By God's will the two souls had extreme routes in life. One grew up poor, struggled in life, often hungry, had no friends or family, faced many hardships and generally suffered their entire life. While the other was born with money, had many opportunities and varied experiences, had many friends, had a happy marriage with a loving family, and generally had what most would call a great life.

During the next eternity, would there be any differences in what the souls experience in heaven based on how their lives went? The soul who had a richer life, with extended friends and family would they necessary have a richer experience in heaven being reunited with all the people they had ties during life?

Usually, so far they live with their species of family if they're back to their ancestors' family members.There will be totally different, they can be his elder generations only. Former human friends are hard to meet again. They're totally new life and new family members only. Friends may not going back to their own families and left on earth.

If you're going to Christianity heaven and again your friends on earth next time may not be able to get there. And the friends there are new. The life or life objective there are different from what you're on earth. And the only one who are chosen can be back to Christianity heaven. So no one can be sure who to meet or reunion of anyone you know or tie in your life. But I have seen couples there.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:21 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
Master
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,866
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedmil
Suppose two souls enter heaven. By God's will the two souls had extreme routes in life. One grew up poor, struggled in life, often hungry, had no friends or family, faced many hardships and generally suffered their entire life. While the other was born with money, had many opportunities and varied experiences, had many friends, had a happy marriage with a loving family, and generally had what most would call a great life.

During the next eternity, would there be any differences in what the souls experience in heaven based on how their lives went? The soul who had a richer life, with extended friends and family would they necessary have a richer experience in heaven being reunited with all the people they had ties during life?

i think it is pretty clear what the bible says about the end result of those two disparate ways of life. It is summed up again here: the last become first and many of the first become last. and again it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And many other such things were said which the rich people willfully ignore in their quest to think highly of themselves and their riches. And the poor people don't know enough to take heart in their own plight - again because of what was said about their own ending what they get from all this is wondrous! All very sad, that there are so many lies going around and people buy into them. But I guess we were told about THAT too... but in the end it is just another thing to ignore on the basis that we simply don't like the idea, I suppose.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:44 AM
Ordnael Ordnael is offline
Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 67
 
Would you accept to receive more benefits than someone who has gone through greater difficulties than you just to get to the same place? I would be ashamed of it and would be happy to know that someone who suffered more than me got their recompense for it.

In the doctrine that I believe there are 3 basic things that bring merit to a person, which are: spiritual knowledge, acts, and suffering. Without proper spiritual knowledge people would be suffering in vain and would not gain merit. A lot of spiritual knowledge but little suffering means you had an easy life, and were not as great as someone who also had the right knowledge and suffered more. Acts will show how virtuous you are, so it doesn't matter if someone has great knowledge and suffers, if he is not morally good there is no merit at all.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-10-2017, 02:38 AM
Imzadi Imzadi is offline
Guide
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Oneness
Posts: 695
  Imzadi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedmil
Suppose two souls enter heaven. By God's will the two souls had extreme routes in life. One grew up poor, struggled in life, often hungry, had no friends or family, faced many hardships and generally suffered their entire life. While the other was born with money, had many opportunities and varied experiences, had many friends, had a happy marriage with a loving family, and generally had what most would call a great life.

During the next eternity, would there be any differences in what the souls experience in heaven based on how their lives went? The soul who had a richer life, with extended friends and family would they necessary have a richer experience in heaven being reunited with all the people they had ties during life?

I think the experience of the souls in Heaven depends mostly on what lies in their hearts and how they live their lives as oppose to what blessings or challenges that they may have encountered while on Earth.

For instance, let's say the 1st soul suffered many hardships such as what you mentioned, but they tend to turn away from God because they felt that everything is unfair and they are ungrateful for what they do have. They harbor feelings of envy, jealousy, resentment towards those who have more than them. Instead of utilizing their hardship to transform into a deeper faith and relationship with God, they ended up becoming hardened and bitter. Because of such negativity, they are unable to store their "treasures" in Heaven.

On the contrary, if the 2nd soul live a life of privilege and recognizes their immense blessings is a gift from God, they may choose to use their blessings and devote their life to assisting others. They feel that their blessings is a gift from God and not a right and that they should use their abilities and power to help those less fortunate than them. They experience a profound gratitude, not merely because of their material wealth and good fortune, but also because of their connection to God.

In this scenario, when these two souls enter Heaven, who do you think have more Heavenly treasures stored? The one with envy and resentment in their heart or the one with gratitude and compassion?

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal..." Matthew 6:19-20
__________________
“Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinions.” ~Seng-ts’an

♬ ♫ ♪ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtnJUS30olE ♪ ♫ ♬
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-10-2017, 07:54 AM
Busby Busby is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 507
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedmil
Suppose two souls enter heaven. By God's will the two souls had extreme routes in life. One grew up poor, struggled in life, often hungry, had no friends or family, faced many hardships and generally suffered their entire life. While the other was born with money, had many opportunities and varied experiences, had many friends, had a happy marriage with a loving family, and generally had what most would call a great life.

During the next eternity, would there be any differences in what the souls experience in heaven based on how their lives went? The soul who had a richer life, with extended friends and family would they necessary have a richer experience in heaven being reunited with all the people they had ties during life?

Maybe you should have asked a different question. Why doesn'i God make all men equal at birth, why are there those who as you say have to fight, suffer, even hide. Why are there handsome men and women and ugly ones. Why are there those born blind and deformed and those born with beautiful voices and lovely everythings...

Why aren't men and women equal and haven't been for all these centuries, and so on. Why did Jesus prove this failure by not having any women disciples, something that would have been only right in modern eyes.

All the answers we find in the scriptures, 'the sins of the fathers' and so on is a laughable explanation. A just God would make sure every one of us gets the same start, the same surroundings, the same environment, the same qualities. He'd also give everyone the same chance, not having Eskimos stuck up at the north Pole whilst Jesus was preaching to a gathering of uneducated camel drivers in the middle East.

Following this pre-sorting at birth we can assume that in heaven some sort of heirachy will exist of the 'holier than thou' variety.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2017, 08:11 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,501
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Maybe you should have asked a different question. Why doesn'i God make all men equal at birth, why are there those who as you say have to fight, suffer, even hide. Why are there handsome men and women and ugly ones. Why are there those born blind and deformed and those born with beautiful voices and lovely everythings...

Why aren't men and women equal and haven't been for all these centuries, and so on. Why did Jesus prove this failure by not having any women disciples, something that would have been only right in modern eyes.

All the answers we find in the scriptures, 'the sins of the fathers' and so on is a laughable explanation. A just God would make sure every one of us gets the same start, the same surroundings, the same environment, the same qualities. He'd also give everyone the same chance, not having Eskimos stuck up at the north Pole whilst Jesus was preaching to a gathering of uneducated camel drivers in the middle East.

Following this pre-sorting at birth we can assume that in heaven some sort of heirachy will exist of the 'holier than thou' variety.


' Why '...... nothing mysterious, just evolution.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:53 AM
Ab Origine Ab Origine is offline
Experiencer
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 391
 
Hi Folks...

Whether we "suffer" in life or not is always a PERSONAL perspective - you may look at someone poor and believe they MUST be suffering - but inside they may be exceedingly happy and content - and of course - look at someone rich and think they must be a "bad person" as they amassed all this wealth ad others went without - its not fair you may think - but trust me - we ALL DO IT TO OUR SELVES and we CREATE every little circumstance that our life allows us to experience !!!

(problems come because most people here create them Self in TOTAL IGNORANCE and so allow the world to dictate who they are to Be)

Poor person has better chance of becoming truly spiritual - simply because they don't have "worldy distractions" and so have few ties or responsibilities to the mortal world...being materially por just means you have a natural head start, as without those outer distractions, you will of course turn inwards -and that my friends is where you will find your Soul - NOT out in the world with its material concerns - but deep within the Self - empty mind free form all that mortal concerns - money and wealth are a direct hinderance to spiritual development for MOST people - but indeed such wealth can bring great benefits to all, if the one in control is spiritually aware of them Self then they would employ their wealth for the benefit of ALL...

So you see, the bible is just bringing confusion as usual - because simply being wealthy is NOT a bad thing - it is the ATTACHMENT to the mortal concern that is to be avoided, not the wealth itself but the CRAVING of it..

As to how all these different people are going to interact in "heaven" in SPIRIT - well - I will tell you all - do NOT be expecting it to be a heirachal society like we have HERE - that is a complete fallacy....Thing is - spirit is UNITY - MIND TO MIND and indeed spirit TO spirit....There is no HIDING - no deception, no Self deceiving or Self deluding - in spirit you know EVERYTHING that the other individual knows -you will MERGE and become ONE in knowledge - all previous MORTAL ideas will be seen FULLY and s you will know the oTher FULLY, and indeed will know your own Self FULLY...

ALL these mortal concerns of power, wealth authority station, MEAN NOTHING AT ALL once we are in the spiritual state, free from mortal life..Totally forget ANY ideas of "rewards and punishments" - and simply forget any notions of "karma" dictating your next life that you may have learned from this wold - you are going to see that those things are errors - poorly understood here - but in spirit, simply , you will know TRUTH DIRECTLY - and you will laugh at all this foolish naivete here in mortal life...

when you (all) die - you will face a PERSONAL JUDGEMENT - a LIFE REVIEW - trust me I know all about it - read the thousands of near death accounts - the thousands of spiritually transformative events that happen all over the world from EVERY faith and religion regardless its ALWAYS the same process - you will die and have this life review - and believe me when I tell you all, you will see TRUTH OF SELF like you have never know before - all the lies and deceptions we hide behind HERE will be stripped away in an instant and your Soul will be left naked and exposed - you are NOT what you currently believe your Self to Be - and for most this new truth will be rather rude and shocking - especially if you cling to this religious confusion here in life.. Sorry - but MOST Souls inthw world today are not getting anywhere near a spiritual afterlife..lol...Karma is not what most believe it is - but is is REAL and VALID and UNSTOPPABLE - it is the ABILITY TO CREATE - the prcess OF Creation - and it all comes from MIND Folks - LITERALLY, most will die and IMMEDIATELY in that confused state they will CREATE that which they believe themself to Be.. And look - confused so, they BELIEVE they are a MORTAL PERSON - and so it WILL come to pass in short order - their KARMA - their own CREATIVE TALENT will quite literally cause them to REINCARNATE here again AS MORTAL as that is ALL THEY KNOW in their confusion !!!

So - for most Souls out there - all this is a bit moot - most are simply not ready for "heaven" and will cling to life here and recreate this mortal life again.. and again.. and again...until FINALLY SELF REALISATION dawns for them....Now - some may think they have already gone beyond that stage - they may think that their "relgious wisdom" is the foundational truth and certainly, anyone here on this forum or similar, actively seeking spiritual truth, does indeed have a head start on the general masses - but I do assure you all from direct experience that NONE OF IT is ACTUAL truth - everything you think is solid and foundational NOW, will change in an instant and indeed, upon that final day, that Judgement will happen and you will all see exactly what I mean.....We deceive the Self here ALL THE TIME - its like a defense we use - but its all going to be ripped away and you will finally see the Self clearly - NOT MORTAL - it will totally shock you if unprepared - and sorry - but religion is just not up to that task - it does NOT prepare us - it only CONFUSES us with all these half truths and twisted meanings...

EDIT : Christ DID have women disciples - Mary Magdalene first and foremost - she was his mortal consort - as said don't trust the religion alone - that will bring only confusion -as He warned it would - they have no truth to offer He said and will lead you astray ON PURPOSE - have TAKEN the keys to this wisdom He said and HIDDEN it from you (all)... This issue of female disciples is just one example of their total and continual manipulation of HIS truth.. The religion simply cannot be trusted He said it repeatedly, have no part of it He ACTUALLY said to those with ears to hear...

Last edited by Ab Origine : 03-10-2017 at 01:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-10-2017, 01:40 PM
Busby Busby is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 507
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' Why '...... nothing mysterious, just evolution.

Ah Ha! You mean when 'he' handed over the keys he lost control...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-10-2017, 02:22 PM
Busby Busby is offline
Guide
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 507
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ab Origine
Hi Folks...

Whether we "suffer" in life or not is always a PERSONAL perspective - you may look at someone poor and believe they MUST be suffering - but inside they may be exceedingly happy and content - and of course - look at someone rich and think they must be a "bad person" as they amassed all this wealth ad others went without - its not fair you may think - but trust me - we ALL DO IT TO OUR SELVES and we CREATE every little circumstance that our life allows us to experience !!!

(problems come because most people here create them Self in TOTAL IGNORANCE and so allow the world to dictate who they are to Be)

Poor person has better chance of becoming truly spiritual - simply because they don't have "worldy distractions" and so have few ties or responsibilities to the mortal world...being materially por just means you have a natural head start, as without those outer distractions, you will of course turn inwards -and that my friends is where you will find your Soul - NOT out in the world with its material concerns - but deep within the Self - empty mind free form all that mortal concerns - money and wealth are a direct hinderance to spiritual development for MOST people - but indeed such wealth can bring great benefits to all, if the one in control is spiritually aware of them Self then they would employ their wealth for the benefit of ALL...

So you see, the bible is just bringing confusion as usual - because simply being wealthy is NOT a bad thing - it is the ATTACHMENT to the mortal concern that is to be avoided, not the wealth itself but the CRAVING of it..

As to how all these different people are going to interact in "heaven" in SPIRIT - well - I will tell you all - do NOT be expecting it to be a heirachal society like we have HERE - that is a complete fallacy....Thing is - spirit is UNITY - MIND TO MIND and indeed spirit TO spirit....There is no HIDING - no deception, no Self deceiving or Self deluding - in spirit you know EVERYTHING that the other individual knows -you will MERGE and become ONE in knowledge - all previous MORTAL ideas will be seen FULLY and s you will know the oTher FULLY, and indeed will know your own Self FULLY...

ALL these mortal concerns of power, wealth authority station, MEAN NOTHING AT ALL once we are in the spiritual state, free from mortal life..Totally forget ANY ideas of "rewards and punishments" - and simply forget any notions of "karma" dictating your next life that you may have learned from this wold - you are going to see that those things are errors - poorly understood here - but in spirit, simply , you will know TRUTH DIRECTLY - and you will laugh at all this foolish naivete here in mortal life...

when you (all) die - you will face a PERSONAL JUDGEMENT - a LIFE REVIEW - trust me I know all about it - read the thousands of near death accounts - the thousands of spiritually transformative events that happen all over the world from EVERY faith and religion regardless its ALWAYS the same process - you will die and have this life review - and believe me when I tell you all, you will see TRUTH OF SELF like you have never know before - all the lies and deceptions we hide behind HERE will be stripped away in an instant and your Soul will be left naked and exposed - you are NOT what you currently believe your Self to Be - and for most this new truth will be rather rude and shocking - especially if you cling to this religious confusion here in life.. Sorry - but MOST Souls inthw world today are not getting anywhere near a spiritual afterlife..lol...Karma is not what most believe it is - but is is REAL and VALID and UNSTOPPABLE - it is the ABILITY TO CREATE - the prcess OF Creation - and it all comes from MIND Folks - LITERALLY, most will die and IMMEDIATELY in that confused state they will CREATE that which they believe themself to Be.. And look - confused so, they BELIEVE they are a MORTAL PERSON - and so it WILL come to pass in short order - their KARMA - their own CREATIVE TALENT will quite literally cause them to REINCARNATE here again AS MORTAL as that is ALL THEY KNOW in their confusion !!!

So - for most Souls out there - all this is a bit moot - most are simply not ready for "heaven" and will cling to life here and recreate this mortal life again.. and again.. and again...until FINALLY SELF REALISATION dawns for them....Now - some may think they have already gone beyond that stage - they may think that their "relgious wisdom" is the foundational truth and certainly, anyone here on this forum or similar, actively seeking spiritual truth, does indeed have a head start on the general masses - but I do assure you all from direct experience that NONE OF IT is ACTUAL truth - everything you think is solid and foundational NOW, will change in an instant and indeed, upon that final day, that Judgement will happen and you will all see exactly what I mean.....We deceive the Self here ALL THE TIME - its like a defense we use - but its all going to be ripped away and you will finally see the Self clearly - NOT MORTAL - it will totally shock you if unprepared - and sorry - but religion is just not up to that task - it does NOT prepare us - it only CONFUSES us with all these half truths and twisted meanings...

EDIT : Christ DID have women disciples - Mary Magdalene first and foremost - she was his mortal consort - as said don't trust the religion alone - that will bring only confusion -as He warned it would - they have no truth to offer He said and will lead you astray ON PURPOSE - have TAKEN the keys to this wisdom He said and HIDDEN it from you (all)... This issue of female disciples is just one example of their total and continual manipulation of HIS truth.. The religion simply cannot be trusted He said it repeatedly, have no part of it He ACTUALLY said to those with ears to hear...

Ab Origine,

There's not much of what you have written with which I wouldn't agree. As a young lad I saw, (at one given moment) that the world outside ourselves, which we, in everyday life, look upon as being real, is but an 'outer' skin of true reality. Occassionally, over the years, this 'skin' has split a little for me and allowed me to see that which lies just out of sight - but unfortunately only a few quick glimpses. Sufficient for me however, in their message, to understand that the world's physical state or condition is a product of my own meagre creativity with all its barriers.

We are, as Jung suggested, all part of a collective consciousness. So to speak.

What I do know is that everything is ONE, that we are all part of everything else. That we, being part of oneness carry within ourselves the complete knowledge of the whole universe. I also know, having seen, that this outer world, the world of form, of shaped energy, is actually built on quite a very simple basis. One which we know but can't see for the trees.

But you see, this existence, and all the other 'nows' which we shall experience, they have to be. And they'll all go by, all in different forms, eternally. These forms are the opportunity we have to experience, yes, experience, that's all, indeed it seems very little in the vastness of the universe, but it's actually everything. Each of those Autumn leaves which are now falling has the same important part to play in this universe as you and I do. We are simply making a different experience.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Spiritual Forums