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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Death & The Afterlife

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  #1  
Old 21-07-2016, 03:08 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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non-duality & individuality

I have studied non-duality or Advaita for a long time and can see and even occasionally experience Oneness or Unity in which there is a 'me' but no separate individual. Then, again, I have experienced the continuing existence of several members of my family including my late wife so my issue is how to reconcile the Oneness, where there is NO individual at all and the presence of apparent individuals in both the physical world and the afterlife. I'd think that, once I "die", there would no longer be a separate, individual 'me' but a universal Me or simply consciousness - absent a form. I can visualize or conceive of formless life or Absolute Unity plus separate individuals but when, where and how does the separate person melt into or become One Being or Self? What is your own experience of this? Have you, as some sages seem to be, had the experience of being just one life/being/consciousness/self - without a body or form? If so, what about all those individuals that I have seen/felt/heard, etc. from the afterlife? I didn't imagine them. They are as real as anyone or thing over here. It's so weird trying to experience Oneness when individuality seems so permanent or ever lasting. The "oneness" folks claim that everything, including the afterlife, is temporary whereas Oneness is eternal and permanent. What's your take on these two apparently opposing points or states? Thanks
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  #2  
Old 22-07-2016, 07:47 PM
Silver Silver is offline
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Maybe we are all helplessly a part of something always greater than one individual but we don't always 'feel' it? I was going to start a new thread because even though it's been six and a half years since my only son passed away, I think about him often and last night, I wondered why is it that I can go to a cemetery and look over the endless people who have come and gone, and yet my son is far more important than ANYbody else in the whole wide world? This morning at the restaurant, I watched as a family ordered their food and couldn't help but wonder about all these individuals and yet we maintain this separate idea of 'us' in the universe.

It's just those niggling existential questions that pop up in our heads that keeps us from 'feeling' that unity that really is undeniable - yet we cling to our individuality...maybe.
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  #3  
Old 22-07-2016, 08:31 PM
IAmNemo IAmNemo is offline
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There is no such thing as a "separate individual" but there is indeed such a thing as an "individual".
I think you are perhaps confusing Oneness with 'Sameness'.
Everything is unique but within a singular whole.

Think of it like your body. It is not just one singular body but also a collective of unique cells all united and formed into your body. It isn't just 'you'. You are also a collective of unique living organisms.
And not only that, but those cells all have their own unique organs.
And each piece is made up of atoms. And those atoms are made up of particles. And those particles are made of sub particles. And those sub particles are all vibrating waves. And that's as far as we've gotten so far.
So let's go the other way!
You are also part of a community. That community is part of a society. All societies are part of humanity. All species of animal are part of life. All life on Earth is but a small part of the whole Earth. Earth is among many planets in the solar system. There are many solar systems in our galaxy. Many galaxies in our universe. And again that's as far as we've gotten on that!

In any case, these things are all unique, are they not?
All part of a whole, yes?

Therefore Oneness is not without individuality or uniqueness. It is the collective of these unique and individual things.

But what of when one dies? That uniqueness and individuality is no more, it has changed.

But that's okay, right? Because all things are One. The past is never forgotten. The individuality still exists, just in a different form. It exists in the past, which is still part of the whole. It exists in memory of those left behind, which is still part of the whole. It exists in all the things effected by that entity. The entire universe is still imprinted with their existence as all things are connected and influenced by each other as part of one singular whole.

So, you do not see these 'ghosts' as they are now. You see them as they once were. You see but your own memories of them. But do not be dismayed by this! Because the truth is that those memories are what keep them alive. What you experienced was your imagination, but what created that part of your imagination was the entities whom you once knew. And in this you'll find that your experiences with them are perhaps more "real" than most other things in life, because they exist within you now. Just as they have always been a part of you.
Perhaps it isn't easy to say they were a part of your 'imagination', because this makes no distinction from them and the things which you imagine and are not real to you, and that is fine to use some other word for it. They are, after all, a different kind of experience. Such things are just words.
What matters is the fact that they were real to you and they were created by those whom were once real to you, and in doing so they reached through time itself to be there, just as all things do. Imagination is merely the medium for the perception of that reality, where they can be manifested.

Does this satisfy your questions?
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  #4  
Old 22-07-2016, 11:06 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Who feels it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Maybe we are all helplessly a part of something always greater than one individual but we don't always 'feel' it? I was going to start a new thread because even though it's been six and a half years since my only son passed away, I think about him often and last night, I wondered why is it that I can go to a cemetery and look over the endless people who have come and gone, and yet my son is far more important than ANYbody else in the whole wide world? This morning at the restaurant, I watched as a family ordered their food and couldn't help but wonder about all these individuals and yet we maintain this separate idea of 'us' in the universe.

It's just those niggling existential questions that pop up in our heads that keeps us from 'feeling' that unity that really is undeniable - yet we cling to our individuality...maybe.
My latest and best approach to the issue of my identity as a separate person/individual or self-entity is to ask my self: who feels such and such? Who is hurting, regretting, grieving, missing, feels or doesn't feel, etc. and sometimes I get back to the Real where there is no separate person or any unhappy issues. I would explain the "Real" but that's a close as I can come for now to describe my experience of it/me. I unwittingly cling to my "individuality" but am getting closer and closer to accepting and living in Unity where my "individuality" is kind of a distant dream. It changes all the time so this is all I can say about my experience for now. Thanks for your post, jim
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  #5  
Old 22-07-2016, 11:56 PM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Unhappy My direct experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmNemo
There is no such thing as a "separate individual" but there is indeed such a thing as an "individual".
I don't see your point but go ahead.......

Quote:
I think you are perhaps confusing Oneness with 'Sameness'.
Everything is unique but within a singular whole.
That looks like semantics to me. I think you are just doing the word game here and, worse, failing to speak for and about your own, actual experiences. The "singular whole" you write about is the All or Awareness/Life/Absolute or whatever term applies to the Supreme Divine which subdivides itself into all those "unique" parts or states otherwise called Creation or the Universe.

Quote:
Think of it like your body. It is not just one singular body but also a collective of unique cells all united and formed into your body. It isn't just 'you'. You are also a collective of unique living organisms.
LOL, think of it like Energy. It's not just one singular "energy" (you) but is all the stuff that appears here - without a break or separation! This is all just one, indivisible energy appearing as lots of apparently separate things/conditions/stuff.

Quote:
And not only that, but those cells all have their own unique organs.
And each piece is made up of atoms. And those atoms are made up of particles. And those particles are made of sub particles. And those sub particles are all vibrating waves. And that's as far as we've gotten so far.
That's as far as YOU have gotten so far. I have gotten to quite a different place so please don't lump me in with your "we" thing.

Quote:
So let's go the other way!
You are also part of a community. That community is part of a society. All societies are part of humanity. All species of animal are part of life. All life on Earth is but a small part of the whole Earth. Earth is among many planets in the solar system. There are many solar systems in our galaxy. Many galaxies in our universe. And again that's as far as we've gotten on that!
Again, that is as far as YOU have gotten - not me! I'm not part of your "we" and have a totally different perspective on things.

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In any case, these things are all unique, are they not?
All part of a whole, yes?
Yes, infinite Energy or Divine Consciousness can and does appear anyway it wishes to.

Quote:
Therefore Oneness is not without individuality or uniqueness. It is the collective of these unique and individual things.
It is not only the apparent collective, it IS the things them self. All there is, is Oneness or Life.

Quote:
But what of when one dies? That uniqueness and individuality is no more, it has changed.
Who dies? Infinite Energy cannot die. An apparent individual can die and then become or do certain things since Infinite Consciousness has infinite ways to express. My apparent wife just died and is now living in an apparent afterlife as a different APPARENT person/entity while I, and apparently separate person, live on over here. It's all the Cosmic Game of creation and YOU are the Cosmic Creator of it all.

Quote:
But that's okay, right? Because all things are One. The past is never forgotten. The individuality still exists, just in a different form. It exists in the past, which is still part of the whole.
Yes, because you, Infinite Being, can do just about anything you want.

Quote:
It exists in memory of those left behind, which is still part of the whole. It exists in all the things effected by that entity. The entire universe is still imprinted with their existence as all things are connected and influenced by each other as part of one singular whole.
Yes, you, the Absolute can have and do all of that while seeming to be: memories, those left behind, parts, entire universe, etc. You are all that there is!

Quote:
So, you do not see these 'ghosts' as they are now. You see them as they once were.
I see my late wife as she is now which is way better than how it was for her while on earth.

Quote:
You see but your own memories of them. But do not be dismayed by this!
That might be true for you but not me and I'm not dismayed other than at how you cannot use the 'I' word and need to stay focused on me and others. Are you afraid or ashamed of the 'I' word? LOL, try it some time!

Quote:
Because the truth is that those memories are what keep them alive.
Not in my experience! They are just as alive right now as they ever were and are not simply "memories". You'd know this if you ever had an encounter with a departed love-one or friend, etc. like both my late wife and I often had.

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What you experienced was your imagination, but what created that part of your imagination was the entities whom you once knew.
Sorry but you are totally wrong there. That might be your experience and, if you were to say so using an 'I' word to describe your own experiences instead of explaining mine, I might take you seriously.

Quote:
And in this you'll find that your experiences with them are perhaps more "real" than most other things in life, because they exist within you now. Just as they have always been a part of you.

LOL, you really don't know what you are writing about here! They do exist within me and everything there is but are not "more real" - they are just as real because they are just as alive as me and everything there is - not simply a "part" of anything - that is an illusion!

Quote:
Perhaps it isn't easy to say they were a part of your 'imagination', because this makes no distinction from them and the things which you imagine and are not real to you, and that is fine to use some other word for it. They are, after all, a different kind of experience. Such things are just words.
Yes this is all "just words" so what is your point?

Quote:
What matters is the fact that they were real to you and they were created by those whom were once real to you, and in doing so they reached through time itself to be there, just as all things do. Imagination is merely the medium for the perception of that reality, where they can be manifested.
Yep, all just words and rather foolish ones at that. When you have had some real and personal experiences with any of this, come tell us - with 'I' words, please.

Quote:
Does this satisfy your questions?
LOL, not at all! Does this silly little speech by you satisfy your need to be some kind of IMPORTANT authority on something? It would satisfy me if anything you wrote made any sense or you had the courage to say these are all just your own, personal OPINIONS. Get a back bone and use the 'I' word now and then.
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  #6  
Old 23-07-2016, 12:01 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Thumbs up No afterlife

this video has provided me with some great answers so I offer it for the benefit of anyone who is struggling with similar issues........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICwgM7Bvyo

there is no "afterlife" because there simply is no separate you/I/me/us/them/we/those/they, etc. There is only Energy or whatever it's called.
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  #7  
Old 24-07-2016, 07:12 PM
IAmNemo IAmNemo is offline
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Wow... Talk about disrespectful.
You obviously didn't make this topic to get answers. You made it in order for you to gloat of your own 'answers'.
But the fact is you have no true understanding of Oneness, no understanding of Advaita. You see what you want to see and nothing more.
The most ironic part of this all is that you accuse me of merely arguing semantics but that is exactly what you did. In fact, how could I even be simply arguing semantics when I was simply trying to express and explain something? You contradict yourself in oh so many ways. And I have a feeling you don't even realize it at all.

Have a good day. Good luck trying to get anyone to reply to you now after having shown your true self.
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  #8  
Old 19-08-2016, 12:29 AM
Journeyman Paul Journeyman Paul is offline
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If it's imaginable, it's possible. If it's possible, it's imaginable. Pure Creation (aka 'God,' Pure Consciousness,' 'The Mind,' etc.) has infinite potentiality at it's disposal.
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  #9  
Old 19-08-2016, 02:26 AM
jimrich jimrich is offline
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Angel1 Will this last?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver
Maybe we are all helplessly a part of something always greater than one individual but we don't always 'feel' it?
There are a few sages and realized folks such as Tony Parsons who seem able to feel and then speak of Unity as their present reality but it seems most folks still refer to the individual and individuals - even if there is no such thing. I have occasionally FELT what I'd call Unity or non-duality but it only lasts a short time and then I'm right back into person-hood and separation again. Intellectually I understand that there is no separation and that all there is is Energy or Unity or whatever the Infinite All is labeled BUT..... my over-riding experience is that of a felt and limited person or self. Some say a "shift" has to occur while others say no shift is needed since This Is It. I am currently content with whatever state of consciousness I am in at the moment and, right now, I feel small and limited yet happy and secure.

Quote:
I was going to start a new thread because even though it's been six and a half years since my only son passed away, I think about him often and last night, I wondered why is it that I can go to a cemetery and look over the endless people who have come and gone, and yet my son is far more important than ANYbody else in the whole wide world?
IMO, he will always be more important to you so long as you have deep feelings for and about him. MY late wife passed in middle May and she is still right here and pretty active as a spiritual companion (not a ghost) so I take her individuality seriously and communicate with her as if she were right here in a body. If there is no "individual" or separation, I cannot explain how and or why she still LIVES in this world while being over in the Afterlife and I frankly don't care so long as there is still love and respect between us. If there really is only one life, one being, one mind, one...........I am still happy to have her around as an "other" and I experience her as still existing - just in a different form.

Quote:
This morning at the restaurant, I watched as a family ordered their food and couldn't help but wonder about all these individuals and yet we maintain this separate idea of 'us' in the universe.

The sages say it's "maya" and that we are living in a deluded dream of separation. I don't know how to explain my reality other than to say, my wife and many others in the Afterlife, seem both real to me and still alive so, if it's all a dream - so what? I'm going to enjoy it as much as I can until I discover something different - like Enlightenment.

Quote:
It's just those niggling existential questions that pop up in our heads that keeps us from 'feeling' that unity that really is undeniable - yet we cling to our individuality...maybe.
I can't speak for "we" and "us" but I can and will speak for myself and I have only "glimpsed" Unity or Oneness from time to time whilst individuality and separation seems to be the constant state of affairs for me.
Glad you wrote of you experiences here.
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Old 22-08-2016, 08:55 PM
Jeff4freedom Jeff4freedom is offline
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I've had a fair amount of experience in the “afterlife”. I remember several “deaths” and in my past life and earlier in this one practiced what I called “Yoga of the Death State”..which was going through the process but not to the point of cutting the cord. I have studied Nothing on the subject so only speak from experience, and because of this have had to make up words to describe certain things which might be called something else.
In the “afterlife” which I call the In-between time we can encounter two types of ….. apparent entities of humans that have “passed”. Generally speaking, most of the time (prior to leaving the tunnel and entering what I call the “White Hall”.)..these apparent spirits, even of our own dearly departed....are more like what one person said above..Memories..but more than that. I call these entities CONSTRUCTS. We all have a Construct, it is an energetic expression, made of primarily astral material but rarely some etheric.... Consider this...first the Law of Creation, where thought and emotion are maintained....something will manifest.... Now consider the human, this clump of thought and emotion with all kinds of energy going towards defining it...not just who we define ourselves as, but all those around us. This energy of thought and emotion created an astral energetic Image...a mirror like reflection of who we are. But it has no Real life, it is maintained by the ideas and feelings about it....but it is very real. As far as I can tell it travels behind us to the right, but that's just me..... These constructs are what most folks see when the have a NDE or die. This occurs at the beginning of the “death” process. Later, once we've made it through the gauntlet of Heavens and Hells and Constructs that entice (they are astral in nature)....then we tend to go ...or I do, into the Oneness.....the Blissful Light of ALL..... This lasts for a time until this ….pull, inherent in our souls..... separates us off and we, or I , find myself in “the White Hall”, where actual souls of those in our Group (closest in proximity to us in the Web)... can be encountered and aid us in choosing our Path in the next life.
And to take this even deeper, there are Two kinds of Oneness. The first and really only one available to us at this time is the oneness of souls that have merged into becoming what is sometimes called, The Spiritual Sun ..and is often mistaken for “God”.... But the thing is, God is the Merged and all those yet to Merge as well. Anyway, Oneness in the Spiritual Sun is Pure Bliss...beyond description....too freakin Much....... But eventually, when God's turn on the wheel is up, this time around..... there is for a brief Eternity....another Oneness. There can be no words for this.
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