TALKING TO THE DEAD: PERMITTED BY GOD OR GRAVE SIN?

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Triner

Then your flavor of God is not infinite. Nothing is outside the infinite. Otherwise, it isn't inifinte. God is infinite. Therefore, the sin and evil you see everyone is in your flavor of God. And that's simply wrong. You've either got to accept that God is less than infinite, or that evil doesn't exist. You simply can't have both. I chose that evil doesn't exist. That's there's no sin.

The world becomes a beautiful place when you can make that leap out of literallity.

If you don't have sin then you don't have a person to save you from your sins.. If you don't have a person to save you from your sins than the crucifixion was just a regular occurrence that happened because Jesus was going against what was commonly taught and they wouldn't have the new thinking he was teaching.

There is a lot of freedom to have when you are not forced to have the guilt that you are a sinner.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Well, since you believe you have supernatural powers, I'd like to see you try it then report back here what happened.

I'd like to place a bet that it won't happen.

Who said "I" have supernatural powers? I merely provided the pipe line for the Divine Spirit to do its work. And yet I am one with that Spirit who made me.

As far as raising the dead; It is not my place to try and decide when a life is over or not. There were times I thought to pray over a dead person who died too young... but I always got a strong sense of, "N0" deep down on the inside of me. This is what you would call the unction of the Holy Spirit.

However, the two individuals that were brain dead; one had had a massive stroke and on life support. His family was told that he never would come off of the machines and that if by some miracle he did, he would be a vegetable... I did feely strongly to pray for him... and he awoke within two days and had no brain damage or any other problems.

The second person had had a massive heart attack right on Christmas day. He too was hooked up to all sort of machines and was given only 3 days to live. The Doctors said that he would not recover. He too was prayed for and was awake and fine within the 3 days that he was supposed to die in.

I think in both cases you have placed a bet that was already won.

Thank God I didn't stand around spouting nonsense like, "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away." Or just trying to sound all holy and telling everyone that these men were at God's mercy...... No, I believed God to be a healer and one who blesses the prayer of faith.... and he did.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

You have no power, you are at God's mercy. When they day comes that you can raise yourself from the dead, and then you can raise others from the dead, then I'll believe you.

You can make this statement about your own personal abilities, but to make it about another is MOST presumptuous.

I'm not requiring you to believe what I do. I'm simply stating my view.

You seem very invested in what others believe.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I think the days of the angry, bullying God's are coming to an end... and truth and light will begin to prevail.

➔➔➔ SPOT ON ↵↵↵
To quote Bishop Spong, ‘New truth always offends the security systems that have operated in the world of yesterday.’ That others hold on to ideas & beliefs that are centuries old is of no consequence to those who are interested in moving forward.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I have said it before, and I mean no disrespect, but the three major religions have come from a part of the world that has been in war and turmoil for ages. ...

It is always interesting to me that often when those who discuss the issues they have w/ organized religion’s beliefs do so that they often feel obligated to temper or condition these statements w/ qualifiers such as ‘I mean no disrespect.’ When those of the organized religions talk about our beliefs there is seldom IF EVER the need to show any tolerance or respect for others’ beliefs. By noting this I’m not criticizing Mind’s Eye in any way for using this polite phrase, just noting the dynamics I see in these types of discussions.

People are leaving organized religion in droves because of exactly the same issues that many discuss here. Organized religion’s proponents like to try to put others who have different beliefs on the defensive, presenting their specific belief as the only real one, pushing their beliefs in a very astonishing authoritarian way. This very authoritarianism is, by its very nature HIGHLY OFFPUTTING. Well, their beliefs aren’t the only ones by any means.

Well, they can just spin on it BIG TIME when they get in a stew about others having different beliefs!!! It is their unwillingness & UTTER RIGIDITY to look at WHY others are leaving their beliefs that is part of the very problem.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Wow, serious attack mode going on here. ....

LOL.

It’s really something that you ABUNDANTLY dish it out to others, telling them that they are succumbing to Satan, etc., & having an utter intolerance for their beliefs, but when others stand up for THEIR BELIEFS & try to explain their different POV you call it an attack.

You reap what you sow.

You have the right to your beliefs & others HAVE THE EXACT SAME RIGHT. Or do you believe that ONLY YOU have the right to a specific belief??????????? This would be considerable omniscience as well as quite authoritarian.

What others are saying here is exactly what serious Christian scholars have been saying since the 1800s about Bible literalism.

Literal Interpretation Of The Bible By Christian Scholars-
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d=1#post233061

Originally Posted by mattie

It is always interesting to me that often when those who discuss the issues they have w/ organized religion’s beliefs do so that they often feel obligated to temper or condition these statements w/ qualifiers such as ‘I mean no disrespect.’ When those of the organized religions talk about our beliefs there is seldom IF EVER the need to show any tolerance or respect for others’ beliefs. By noting this I’m not criticizing Mind’s Eye in any way for using this polite phrase, just noting the dynamics I see in these types of discussions.

No disrespect mattie but...... lol

[Chrysaetos]

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

Even if true, Theophilus, how did that message reach all parts of the world across deserts and oceans? There were people there too.

It doesn't matter according to Abrahamic religion.. after all, a few tribes in the Middle East were the center of the world. Also, in other religions we see a similar mentality, like there's a Buddhist line saying something like.. ''the great ones who will reach enlightenment will always be born in India.'' India is often seen as 'sacred' in many Dharmic faiths as opposed to the outside ''inauspicious'' world..

Originally Posted by Chrysaetos

It doesn't matter according to Abrahamic religion.. after all, a few tribes in the Middle East were the center of the world. Just like there's a Buddhist line saying something like.. ''the great ones who will reach enlightenment will always be born in India.'' India is often seen as 'sacred' in many Dharmic faiths as opposed to the outside ''inauspicious'' world..

It does not matter? What doesn't matter? That the message did not reach those people? It does not matter that they will not be saved? because that seems to be implied, or will they be saved regardless? in which case it does not matter whether you believe Jesus to be the saviour.

I have never read that "the great ones who will reach enlightenment will always be born in India." What are you trying to say?

[Triner]

Originally Posted by innerlight

If you don't have sin then you don't have a person to save you from your sins.. If you don't have a person to save you from your sins than the crucifixion was just a regular occurrence that happened because Jesus was going against what was commonly taught and they wouldn't have the new thinking he was teaching.

There is a lot of freedom to have when you are not forced to have the guilt that you are a sinner.

Absolutely! It changes the world from a place riddled with sin, guilt, fear and vengeance, and evil, to a world in which God is everywhere, in each and every person, place, and thing. I much prefer the latter.

Originally Posted by mattie

You can make this statement about your own personal abilities, but to make it about another is MOST presumptuous.

I'm not requiring you to believe what I do. I'm simply stating my view.

You seem very invested in what others believe.

LOL! It's presumptuous of me to say that nobody can raise somebody from the dead? Really?