TALKING TO THE DEAD: PERMITTED BY GOD OR GRAVE SIN?

Originally Posted by innerlight

Actually if you look at the bible God didn't create Satan in the sense that he created someone to be evil. God created Lucifer the highest of Archangels.. It was Lucifer that decided to turn away from God. He was given the freewill to do so. Evil was created in that freewill was created. So evil was a result of things not the original intention.. Again, perhaps evil was what was intended to happen.

Yes, but that calls up the question some of us have been talking about; if God is all knowing, then he knew Lucifer would turn away from him before he was even created. Hence, God did create evil at least knowingly.

[innerlight]

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

Yes, but that calls up the question some of us have been talking about; if God is all knowing, then he knew Lucifer would turn away from him before he was even created. Hence, God did create evil at least knowingly.

Sure he may of known he would... But he could not force him to not turn away. He gave freewill. So in knowing it all he probably would of also known that he would turn away.

Now, I'm not saying that I agree with the sin, or the punishment that is taught by the church, or the Christian teachings. I was just commenting on your comment.

Originally Posted by Bluegreen

Have you ever asked yourself whether you will be free of sin when you die?

I will be free of sin when I die because I've accepted Jesus as my savior, and belief in Him washes away our sins.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Lying spirits deceive mankind, they did back then and they are still doing it today.

This is giving quite a bit of power to nonphysical beings as we give away our OWN power. It is not giving us much credit to be able to ID blather & nonsense.

Organized religion scared people for centuries about spirits. There are stalled 4D spirits, but these jokers aren’t powerful at all. They are really pitifully weak. These bullies can only scare unsuspecting people who don’t know they can order them to scram & who will buy into their fear. Just like earthly street punks doing a street dope deal at night, they immediately scatter when we shine our light on them just like the street punks do when a cop car w/ a spotlight pulls up interrupting their deal.

Those on earth are at all levels of consciousness, & nonphysical beings have all levels of awareness too. There is no shortage of nonphysical kooks spewing all sorts of nonsense. When we encounter these whack jobs here in physicality we usually have no difficulty assessing the situation, putting their information in the appropriate context. We simply ignore it. There is no need to get upset about it or be fearful about it because we know it is idiotic blather that we just don't buy into. When these whack jobs move into the nonphysical territory when they die they are no more powerful or relevant than they were here.
✥✥✥They can only have power over us if we LET THEM, being a full partner in our fearful disempowerment. ✥✥✥

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Sorry, it's the truth.

Your truth.

Some religions REQUIRE others to believe THEIR beliefs, insisting on theological dominance. If one looks at spirituality worldwide, there is a substantial variance w/ the various religions’ beliefs. Christianity has 2 major divisions of Protestant & Catholic factions w/ major differences. Inside both factions, beliefs further vary considerably w/ different sub-factions.

Which particular faction’s beliefs should dominate???? When one moves away from religious tolerance a thorny can of worms is opened if all of a sudden we find that our particular version of religion that we assumed was dominate &, therefore protected isn’t the dominant one & we are required to have beliefs we aren’t comfortable with. At that point tolerance often sounds better!!!

[Triner]

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

Limited is a human word. God is not limited. But, God is righteous and Holy. God loves all people, but not all people love Him back. In fact, most don't love Him at all because they don't even care enough to get to know Him. They don't care enough to find out what He wants from us.

You've just contradicted yourself. You said God is not limited, yet you also said that God is not in certain places. If he's not somewhere, then there's a limit to where he is.

You're right that God is not limited. Being unlimited, or infinite, means that God is everywhere and everywhen. That means everywhere... in the hearts of sinners, in the hearts of non-Christians, EVERYWHERE! There's no limit to where he is.

Once you realize that, as I said, the world becomes a beautiful place because God is everywhere!

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

What does He want?

1. Love Him with your whole heart and mind.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Quite right. It's a simple as that. Why do you complicate it so with sin, fear, vengeance, and all that other nonsense? To force all of that into things, you have to put limits on God and contradict yourself.

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

It's in the Bible, and it's also in the 3 books of Enoch. There were guidelines given by God, man ignored. Mankind keeps on doing it.

Former Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Spong, a proponent of Christianity, on the literal interpretation of the Bible by Christian scholars.

‘Over the last two hundred years, the Bible has become the subject of new and critical scholarship ... . It has been Christian scholars whose study has led them to challenge creeds, relativize doctrines and dismiss dogmas. At first this critical thinking was confined to the Christian academy, but it finally broke into public awareness in 1834 with the publication of ...’ (Preface xi)

... clergy ... seem to join a conspiracy of silence to suppress this knowledge when they become pastors, fearful that if that average pew-sitter learned the content of the real debate, his or her faith would be destroyed---and with it, more importantly, his or her support for institutional Christianity.’
...
‘No matter how deeply I loved the church, both its creeds and liturgies made assumptions I could no longer make.’ (Preface xii)
...
‘The choices before the Christian world are clear to me. We can pretend that there is no problem with the continued use of the literalized, sated and inoperative language of our faith, changing nothing, and the result will be that Christianity will die. The other choice is that we can develop a whole new way of seeing Jesus and conceptualizing God that will lay the groundwork for a radical reformation of what we call Christianity.’ (Preface xiii)
...
‘Traditional Christians dedicated to the dying patterns of the past will, I am sure, find this book to be difficult and, from their perspective, negative. New truth always offends the security systems that have operated in the world of yesterday.’ (Preface xiv)

From Spong’s book, ‘Jesus For the NonReligous.’

It is no surprise that many others have also questioned the literalness of the Bible.
The flawed literal interpretations have been openly discussed since ➙➙➙ the 1800s ↵↵↵ by Christian scholars!!!

[Lynn]

Hello


I put forth here a chanelled message that came to me.

First a bit of background.....


The time that Father Paul walked this very Earth was somewhere in 1095AD and on in date. This was a time when one Pope Claremont was teaching and spreading the word of God. It is from them that many thousands were given the gift of God, as that is the time when the first Cross was worn. ( Not been able to find reference in history to Pope Claremont ) Might well be that I am given “reference” to understand whom he was.)

This was a time of wars, sadly those wars still continue today. The war of the Crusades that waged then was Christian and Moslem Religions. Many thousands of men, woman and even children perished. Rome was to come the home of the Catholic Church.

　

The King was Henry IV, this was a time of governing systems coming into play. Times of great struggles between Church and the feudal states. This was a time of holding land in exchange for the labour being done on the land. There was a noble that held the land in the modern sense that would be a landlord, and there would be one that worked and cared for the land. This would be equal to tenants.

This is now a message that was given to me to share from Father Pau. ( that has now with GREAT pleasures been traveling the WWW.

NOTING that all might or might not buy into the idea of Channelling Spirit and I hold no issues in that as we all have our paths to understandings. What I feel resinates the most is that I am never alone Spirit is always but a whisper away......



"Good day to all.

　

This is indeed different for me. I am Father Paul. I usually join in a Chat Room with one’s to answer some questions asked.

Today I come in but I know that I will be in a room. Very similar to the one I am used to entering. Where you are not all of one House of God but at times of no God. Too I feel that you all know there is a divine Light.

You so seek to know what comes after death, well simply more life. Yet that seems so hard for so many to accept . WHY ? The body is only one small experience that you as Children of God have. A gift that was given to you all. Embrace fully that gift.

I look around as I come in and I see that times are different but too times are the same. While it is odd to be in this place where there is no persecution for believing in so many different faiths and Religions yet it all seems ok. I come from a time when one would have met one’s death.

I look around and I see that the lesson I passed on are still passed on but the way they are taken in has so changed. Gone is a lot of the fear that kept you more on a constant path. The time does not seem to be there in life. Sunday is no longer a day of Worship.

I get asked on Sin and on Heaven and Hell. Lessons is all to keep man on a constant path to do their very best. YES there are lessons after death to come, but you are all God’s Children. Even if you do not see it as God but as something more. It is all Light.

Blessing to all that hear this I am and was Father Paul "



This message was originally given forth to me to share in the Metaphysical Church I am a member of but I was asked to put it forth farther.



Lynn

Originally Posted by mattie

Former Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Spong, a proponent of Christianity, on the literal interpretation of the Bible by Christian scholars.

‘Over the last two hundred years, the Bible has become the subject of new and critical scholarship ... . It has been Christian scholars whose study has led them to challenge creeds, relativize doctrines and dismiss dogmas. At first this critical thinking was confined to the Christian academy, but it finally broke into public awareness in 1834 with the publication of ...’ (Preface xi)

... clergy ... seem to join a conspiracy of silence to suppress this knowledge when they become pastors, fearful that if that average pew-sitter learned the content of the real debate, his or her faith would be destroyed---and with it, more importantly, his or her support for institutional Christianity.’
...
‘No matter how deeply I loved the church, both its creeds and liturgies made assumptions I could no longer make.’ (Preface xii)
...
‘The choices before the Christian world are clear to me. We can pretend that there is no problem with the continued use of the literalized, sated and inoperative language of our faith, changing nothing, and the result will be that Christianity will die. The other choice is that we can develop a whole new way of seeing Jesus and conceptualizing God that will lay the groundwork for a radical reformation of what we call Christianity.’ (Preface xiii)
...
‘Traditional Christians dedicated to the dying patterns of the past will, I am sure, find this book to be difficult and, from their perspective, negative. New truth always offends the security systems that have operated in the world of yesterday.’ (Preface xiv)

From Spong’s book, ‘Jesus For the NonReligous.’

It is no surprise that many others have also questioned the literalness of the Bible.
The flawed literal interpretations have been openly discussed since ➙➙➙ the 1800s ↵↵↵ by Christian scholars!!!

I think the days of the angry, bullying God's are coming to an end... and truth and light will begin to prevail.

I have said it before, and I mean no disrespect, but the three major religions have come from a part of the world that has been in war and turmoil for ages. They have killed one another in the name of God and slaughtred innocent people for land that they all say God gave to them. There is so much anger and violence and this surely spills through in the religious writings, "Join us or die, Join us or God will kill you OR Join us or torture and burn in an eternal fire."

The heritage of these poor people in the Middel East is one of war and unrest... and what is it all for? Because religious beliefs that are taken so seriously say it has to be that way... there can be no compromise.... Therefore, there is no peace.

Is this same blood soaked heritage where we want to take our concept of God from? God bless the Middle Eastern people.... but their ancient concepts of the Divine has really made a prison for them... with no exit leading out. It is very sad.

[Triner]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Pope Claremont... ( Not been able to find reference in history to Pope Claremont )

Probably Pope Clement..

Originally Posted by LisaLisa

I will be free of sin when I die because I've accepted Jesus as my savior, and belief in Him washes away our sins.

You are saying that, for example, a life of debauchery would not matter because if a person has accepted Jesus as their saviour they will be free of sin when they die.

If this is true then why is it necessary to warn people who believe as you do about Satan and Hell?

A contradiction don't you think?