Question for Twin Flames/Soulmates ?

[Quest]

Originally Posted by EricDraven

SQ, perfectly stated. This my understanding as well. And most clearly one of the many great(as in size and quality)lessons and opportunities that have been presented to me. And I do mean presented.

I agree with you too. Surrendering feels so much better than resisting it. To me it also means listening to ones heart and being connected to source energy.

Originally Posted by SerpentQueen

I could've written this very same thing, well over a decade ago. Now I know that destiny is NOT in our control. It's not. We only have a certain amount of free will. The ending has already been written. If we veer too far off the track, the universe comes and whacks you back on track.

One of my lessons has been to learn to surrender. To accept my destiny, to not resist it or to try and hurry it along.

For every million people who believe the end is already written or they get whacked; there are a million people whose lives prove just the opposite in every aspect.

From my vantage point it seems that people's lives do unfold just as they believe.

That is not to say there are not some limits and a certain amount of surrrender involved in our journey. But I believe it is far from being a submission game. As an example I will state the following; If I were stricken with a terminal illness tomorrow, what would be my action? I would employ prayer, energy healing, angelic healing and the other healing arts I am certified in. I would get others to do these things for me as well... and also get the proper medical attention. Would I spend my time kicking and screaming? Would I cry and carry on, being mad at God if I did not get my way? Of course not; I would simply do all I could with as much of a peaceful mindset as I was able.... And then I would trust. Trust that no matter what happens, Divine Spirit is in charge and with me, and I'm going to be okay.

Perhaps a better word for surrender would be trust. We surrender most times to masters or powers that overwhelm us. But we trust those whom we love and love us in return. And when we trust, we have peace and assurance.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

For every million people who believe the end is already written or they get whacked; there are a million people whose lives prove just the opposite in every aspect.

From my vantage point it seems that people's lives do unfold just as they believe.

That is not to say there are not some limits and a certain amount of surrrender involved in our journey. But I believe it is far from being a submission game. As an example I will state the following; If I were stricken with a terminal illness tomorrow, what would be my action? I would employ prayer, energy healing, angelic healing and the other healing arts I am certified in. I would get others to do these things for me as well... and also get the proper medical attention. Would I spend my time kicking and screaming? Would I cry and carry on, being mad at God if I did not get my way? Of course not; I would simply do all I could with as much of a peaceful mindset as I was able.... And then I would trust. Trust that no matter what happens, Divine Spirit is in charge and with me, and I'm going to be okay.

Perhaps a better word for surrender would be trust. We surrender most times to masters or powers that overwhelm us. But we trust those whom we love and love us in return. And when we trust, we have peace and assurance.

The only person I trust is myself. Why? Not because I'm cynical or have a hardened heart. Not at all. Because I've learned that by placing trust in myself, rather than others, I give them great freedom to just BE who they are, and reveal themselves to me without fear or worry that they are breaking my trust.

Meanwhile, I trust myself to be able to deal with whatever is revealed. Even if it hurts or pains me or makes me feel temporarily insecure.

So no, for me, surrendering is different than trust. Trust implies you have some control -- over those you place your trust in, whether it's others or yourself. Perhaps you do not see this connection? You would, if you placed trust in yourself and not in others. Surrender, by definition, is giving up control. Surrender may be closer to "faith" but personally I just think it means letting go into the unknown, and getting comfortable that you really don't know, and can't know.

"Peace" is not necessarily my goal. Peace can get boring. My goal is to live, feel alive, experience life with all its ups and downs.

Assurance? There is no assurances whatsoever, with the unknown. But can you see? That's what makes this life so darn exciting!! If there were assurances, things would get awfully dull fast!

Yeah, I should just change my user name to Drama Queen...

[Liladeryn]

Both of us are married to others.. It wasnt something I was looking for or even wanted..Nothing has ever happened between us other than this strange overwhelming crazy connection..Ive learnt so many lessons with this experience of meeting a soul connection or TF or whatever you want to call it ..There has been alot of joy and sorrow
But I have no intention of leaving my marriage and I dont want to be the reason he leaves his marriage..So it will stay just a connection between two people
One lesson Im learning now is to just let go

[Tiss]

Originally Posted by soul whisperer

Your post touched my heart and soul Tiss. I have felt all this that you have so beautifully said....

Thanks so much soul whisperer. It was written from my heart open with purpose of sharing my experience for others' good.

Dream Angel, I hope my intervention have helped in any way clarify some of your initial doubts.

Love and light,

TISS

To EricDraven:

You're right, and I thank the universe every day for bringing my TF into my life. I also try to actually tell my TF on a daily basis how much I love & appreciate him - either in person, or via text or email. He has gotten many "appreciation of the day" emails :) Not a day goes by that we don't say "I love you". The depth of these feelings continues to amaze me, because I have never felt such complete and total love for anyone (except maybe my parents). My TF went through a scare a little bit ago, getting chest pains, etc....turned out to be nothing more than acid reflux and stress....but the thought of losing him scared me beyond belief - I think I have said in a post before that, if my TF were to die, the very best part of me would die with him :(

To Quest:

I hope you're finding your way on your path, I know you've been going through a really rough time....please keep us posted on how things are progressing for you, and please, please, keep following your heart - remember: you deserve to be happy :)

Originally Posted by SerpentQueen

The only person I trust is myself. Why? Not because I'm cynical or have a hardened heart. Not at all. Because I've learned that by placing trust in myself, rather than others, I give them great freedom to just BE who they are, and reveal themselves to me without fear or worry that they are breaking my trust.

Meanwhile, I trust myself to be able to deal with whatever is revealed. Even if it hurts or pains me or makes me feel temporarily insecure.

So no, for me, surrendering is different than trust. Trust implies you have some control -- over those you place your trust in, whether it's others or yourself. Perhaps you do not see this connection? You would, if you placed trust in yourself and not in others. Surrender, by definition, is giving up control. Surrender may be closer to "faith" but personally I just think it means letting go into the unknown, and getting comfortable that you really don't know, and can't know.

"Peace" is not necessarily my goal. Peace can get boring. My goal is to live, feel alive, experience life with all its ups and downs.

Assurance? There is no assurances whatsoever, with the unknown. But can you see? That's what makes this life so darn exciting!! If there were assurances, things would get awfully dull fast!

Yeah, I should just change my user name to Drama Queen...

I could be wrong, but it seems you have some inner issues to work out... You trust only yourself and no one else, not even Divine Wisdom? That sounds very fear based, fear of being hurt or let down maybe? Could this be why you are married and in an open relationship? You want to be married but have the relationship void of a deeper trust? Is it easier to have everyone in the marriage just let it all hang out right from the start than to find out later they have let you down.... Or perhaps you feel you would let them down because your not a very sturdy foundation yourself to be trusted in? And please don't think I am being a wise guy here.... I am surely not. It is just after reading your words about trust, they spoke volumes to me after reading some of your other statements on the forum..... I think you need to be honest with yourself.

I just get a sense that your life, as well as you as a person have seen a lot of ups and downs. Not a lot of inner peace or trust? Just a lot of rushing about headlong into whatever seems fun at the moment. But when the fun is done your left feeling a little empty? We generally veiw the Divine the way we veiw other people or even ourselves. Although we think of the Ultimate Source as being higher and more wise and loving than human beings, we often give it very human traits. If your idea of the Divine is somewhat of a black hole that you never know where you stand or what will happen next... It could mean that your earthly life is that way as well... It may not be your first choice of a lifestyle, but then again maybe it is. Either way, perhaps you have learned to live with it and just surrender to that unknowable flow? But then again, there are some people who like to play the wheel of fortune; round and round she goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

I could be wrong, but it seems you have some inner issues to work out... You trust only yourself and no one else, not even Divine Wisdom? That sounds very fear based, fear of being hurt or let down maybe?

I know it sounds unfathomable, because it's so very different than how most traditional relationships are run. But this approach is not based in fear at all. It's based in love. This is not an "inner issue" I need to work out, this is me creating an environment in which people in my life are free to be themselves, without fear they are going to let me down or hurt me.

Could this be why you are married and in an open relationship? You want to be married but have the relationship void of a deeper trust?

The irony is that there is more and deeper trust in my open marriage than there was in my first traditional marriage. Why? Because there's no reason to lie about anything, and because we've been completely honest and held no secrets, the intimacy has grown deeper and deeper. The trust lies in a commitment to let each other just BE whomever we are, even if it changes through the years, even if it makes the other feel temporarily insecure -- not in a promise to remain faithful.

Is it easier to have everyone in the marriage just let it all hang out right from the start than to find out later they have let you down.... Or perhaps you feel you would let them down because your not a very sturdy foundation yourself to be trusted in? And please don't think I am being a wise guy here.... I am surely not. It is just after reading your words about trust, they spoke volumes to me after reading some of your other statements on the forum..... I think you need to be honest with yourself.

Believe me, I have been honest with myself. I have asked myself all these very same questions over the years.

I'm going to repost this link again --

http://www.in5d.com/3d-vs-4d-relationships.html

Now, please note, I would run my relationship this very same way even if it was a monogamist commitment. The "open" part is irrelevant, but you can go ahead and get hung up on that if you like! You can imagine us swinging from the rafters in our knickers with numerous strangers... whatever floats your boat.

The reality is, in practice, there's not a whole lot of "action on the side" going on in our marriage, because there is no need for it. As I said elsewhere, because I can tell my DH that I have developed a crush on someone, without fear he's going to get all bent out of shape, it magically makes those feelings dissipate and they go no farther. (That works both ways, for him, too.)

My relationship with TF is a different story. That is the flame that won't die out. But DH understands, he has always understood. I communicate, communicate, communicate... and he continues to say he is content to stay on this journey with me anyway.

Can you imagine having those kind of discussions with your ex wife, Minds' Eye? I am guessing that you are probably categorizing me in the same bucket. What you wrote about her on the other thread, my own ex would have said about me. It's possible she and I are similar. I would say her only mistake was in not being honest once she realized she was not cut out for monogamy. But please don't fault her for not realizing she was polyamorous before she married you; it's something you don't necessarily realize right away. There is such pressure in society to be monogamous in the swan-like way -- even though the vast majority of humans fail to marry just once and stay together forever without ever having an affair. Isn't it something like 60% of all marriages experience an affair?

I would say I am a realist, I acknowledge that the chances are very good that an affair might happen, so I'd rather cultivate a relationship of responsible honesty, and create space for my partner to just Be. Even if I was in a monogamist commitment, an affair is not a deal breaker for me.

I just get a sense that your life, as well as you as a person have seen a lot of ups and downs. Not a lot of inner peace or trust? Just a lot of rushing about headlong into whatever seems fun at the moment. But when the fun is done your left feeling a little empty? We generally veiw the Divine the way we veiw other people or even ourselves. Although we think of the Ultimate Source as being higher and more wise and loving than human beings, we often give it very human traits. If your idea of the Divine is somewhat of a black hole that you never know where you stand or what will happen next... It could mean that your earthly life is that way as well... It may not be your first choice of a lifestyle, but then again maybe it is. Either way, perhaps you have learned to live with it and just surrender to that unknowable flow? But then again, there are some people who like to play the wheel of fortune; round and round she goes, where it stops, nobody knows.

I have said before, I've already been there. I came back. Peaceful eternity of nothingness is grand, but it gets boring. Why do you think all this has been created? Because that's why! If you have all of eternity, your imagination is going to wonder, and it's going to create all kinds of plays and dramas and stories and things. And a playground! Have you not noticed that this world is like one big playground? This 3D is meant just as much for our enjoyment, as it is for our learning.

Once you realize that, you DO have peace, because you take things a lot less seriously. You relax and don't get all ruffled.

Originally Posted by SerpentQueen

I know it sounds unfathomable, because it's so very different than how most traditional relationships are run. But this approach is not based in fear at all. It's based in love. This is not an "inner issue" I need to work out, this is me creating an environment in which people in my life are free to be themselves, without fear they are going to let me down or hurt me.





The irony is that there is more and deeper trust in my open marriage than there was in my first traditional marriage. Why? Because there's no reason to lie about anything, and because we've been completely honest and held no secrets, the intimacy has grown deeper and deeper. The trust lies in a commitment to let each other just BE whomever we are, even if it changes through the years, even if it makes the other feel temporarily insecure -- not in a promise to remain faithful.




Believe me, I have been honest with myself. I have asked myself all these very same questions over the years.

I'm going to repost this link again --

http://www.in5d.com/3d-vs-4d-relationships.html

Now, please note, I would run my relationship this very same way even if it was a monogamist commitment. The "open" part is irrelevant, but you can go ahead and get hung up on that if you like! You can imagine us swinging from the rafters in our knickers with numerous strangers... whatever floats your boat.

The reality is, in practice, there's not a whole lot of "action on the side" going on in our marriage, because there is no need for it. As I said elsewhere, because I can tell my DH that I have developed a crush on someone, without fear he's going to get all bent out of shape, it magically makes those feelings dissipate and they go no farther. (That works both ways, for him, too.)

My relationship with TF is a different story. That is the flame that won't die out. But DH understands, he has always understood. I communicate, communicate, communicate... and he continues to say he is content to stay on this journey with me anyway.

Can you imagine having those kind of discussions with your ex wife, Minds' Eye? I am guessing that you are probably categorizing me in the same bucket. What you wrote about her on the other thread, my own ex would have said about me. It's possible she and I are similar. I would say her only mistake was in not being honest once she realized she was not cut out for monogamy. But please don't fault her for not realizing she was polyamorous before she married you; it's something you don't necessarily realize right away. There is such pressure in society to be monogamous in the swan-like way -- even though the vast majority of humans fail to marry just once and stay together forever without ever having an affair. Isn't it something like 60% of all marriages experience an affair?

I would say I am a realist, I acknowledge that the chances are very good that an affair might happen, so I'd rather cultivate a relationship of responsible honesty, and create space for my partner to just Be. Even if I was in a monogamist commitment, an affair is not a deal breaker for me.



I have said before, I've already been there. I came back. Peaceful eternity of nothingness is grand, but it gets boring. Why do you think all this has been created? Because that's why! If you have all of eternity, your imagination is going to wonder, and it's going to create all kinds of plays and dramas and stories and things. And a playground! Have you not noticed that this world is like one big playground? This 3D is meant just as much for our enjoyment, as it is for our learning.

Once you realize that, you DO have peace, because you take things a lot less seriously. You relax and don't get all ruffled.

Well, if your like my ex wife... then you are not happy...lol... She was never happy, she is not happy now. She is miserable, sulky and never finding satisfation in anyone or anything. She chases after men and always blows it big time with the good ones... yet she always sticks with the ones who treat her badly... and she gives them more respect..... Go figure.

As far as getting ruffled... I don't. People can do as they wish in their lives. For me personally, I have always seen the world very differently. When I was just a very young child I would sit and think about how love was the most important thing in the world. I felt it was the way God wanted us to be towards one another, loving, understanding, friendly and caring. I had no religious background at that time... so I don't know where these thoughts came from before even the age of five.

I would watch certain adults around me at that time as they argued, even hit one another and have blow outs over affairs... And I would wonder why they didn't realize that love was supposed to be the law that we lived by. I wondered why adults were so ablivious to how life was supposed to be. Then later on, I received a series of angelic visitaions, in which an angel would speak to me about the way I was feeling, the deeper thoughts I had and how they were in fact correct. These were not daydreams or imaginary friends... they began when I was 12 years old and were quite startling at first.

I won't go into detail about the vistations, but they nutured my innermost feelings and thoughts. They helped me to stay true to myself and not give into peer pressures as I got older. When other kids were experimenting with drugs or giving into fads.. I just was. I was who I was and at peace with that. I never understood why people had to fight, put one another down, go thrill seeking or sleeping with every Tom Ritch or Harry that came down the pike. I didn't get why people just couldn't make a promise and then keep it. I didn't really get how 2 adults could marry, pledge their love to one another and then say ugly things to one another or go off and have an affair with somone else. It was just alien to me. I didn't judge it, or damn anyone for it, I just thought it was a strange way for people to live, it seemed so artificial and complicated. The way of honesty, love and repect seemed so much more simple to me.

And also, the angelic encounters were very kind, loving and caring. I never felt such love as I did radiating from the angels. They spoke to me about love and the great love of the Divine. I was very comfortable and at ease in their presence... So naturally, I trusted them and the Ultimate Source from which they came. It's hard to feel that kind of love and then hear the peculiar ideas other people have about God or Source. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and that's okay... and no one is judged for being wrong about what what they believe. But the Universe is just not that comlicated, complex yes... complicated, no. And so I stick with the way of love, and some of the things you mention are not truly love. They do not embody love for others, your spouse or even yourself. Again, I don't judge you for it, and I don't think I'm better than you for any reason. But it all seems very complicated and contrived to me... I'm sure you have your reasons and justifications for it, and that's fine. But it just seems to me that you are mixing both spiritual thought with the desires of the carnal, (or lower thoughts of the lower self.) And some people like this kind of thing I suppose. It all just seems very unpeaceful to me... But that is all between you and the Divine to sort out. I don't believe in Hell and all that jazz; nor do I believe God will blast you with angry wrath if you are indeed missing the mark in your life... You may get zapped with a load of your own Karma one day... then again you may not. It is your life to live and Spirit will be with you all the way to assist you.... I'm just sure that God and the angels wish you would tune a little more into the higher realms of love.

Peace

Originally Posted by Mind's Eye

But it just seems to me that you are mixing both spiritual thought with the desires of the carnal, (or lower thoughts of the lower self.) And some people like this kind of thing I suppose. It all just seems very unpeaceful to me...

Peace

I'm in meetings the rest of the day but I will come back to this when I can and give it a more thorough response. In the meantime, just wanted to respond to this part.

Which one is the one putting too much emphasis on the carnal? The one who says "My commitment/relationship/love for you has nothing to do with whom you might exchange bodily fluids with" OR the one who says, "I am committed and you have my love -- unless you sleep with someone else."

?