Follow My Heart or Follow the Evidence?

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Delay_Reaction

It could be years, months, weeks or even days away.

21 years later in my case lol.

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by Nan948

Feelings are feelings. It does not make them factual. It does not make them true. Only time will tell if your feelings are correct or not. Don't follow your heart, follow what is. Follow yourself. Follow your love for self. You have a lot of things to do on this earth and chasing someone all over the world is not one of them. This is just taking time away from your divine path whatever that may be. I met my twin-flame. We were in synch when we met so we quickly got into a relationship. Then we were both triggered and we parted. My twin chased me for 12 years. He felt in his heart that I was his twin and guess what, I felt it too and I pushed him away because I could not breathe with the overwhelming neediness he constantly pushed at me. The chasers have control need issues. They are needy and they want what they want when they want it and therefore everyone must want it when they want it too. The runners are filled with all sort of fears. They know that they need space, time and figuring things out, trying to find themselves and fix themselves and their fear issues, and the chaser refuses to give them this time because they need to cling and they need the love now from their twin-flame or they will perish. That is another huge responsibility on the runners plate which makes them want to run even more.

Guess what happens when the chaser chases the runner. The fears build and build and the runner becomes defensive and scared and lashes out because they are being hunted. After a while the runner loses respect for the chaser because they think that the chaser has no respect for their wants and needs and cannot respect a no or not now and they cannot even respect themselves by loving themselves enough to stop chasing. Then the chaser starts hating the runner because they think the runner is cruel and just wants to hurt them and have no respect for their feelings and refuses to listen to their heart. This is why the majority of twin-flames will never get together. They are so caught up in their own needs and their own pain that they cannot see or respect the need of the other.

So stop chasing people. Regardless of your feelings and your belief, it is not nice. People are not prey. If they tell you no respect their wishes and let them go. You cannot force people to be a part of your life. The more you try to force the issue, the more they will push you away and the more you will fail at finding yourself and reuniting with your twin-flame. Everyone has a journey to themselves and this is what the twin-flame journey is about. It is more about the journey to self than it is a journey back to the twin. Let her live her path to herself and you try to find your path to yourself. That is the only way you two will get a fair chance at reunion; if that is your path. If you are meant to be together you will be. But if you push the situation, you might never be together in this life.

Stop pouring out your feelings for her. You told her by e-mail and she can hit the replay button on the e-mail again and again. You don't have to send her another e-mail letting her know. In the meantime, work on yourself. Try to detach and be happy without her. This will be good for not only you, but this will be really good for her also. It will help her heal, help her figure out her needs faster and give her an healthy environment where she feels it is safe to approach if she wants. If she does not contact you and if you still feel this strongly and believe she is the one for you and you are single and made progress in your path to finding yourself and healing, contact her in 3-4 years. E-mail her again and tell her that the feelings that you stated in the last e-mail still stands and that you wish her to be part of your life. Don't pour out everything without getting a response. Then leave it be. If she doesn't respond or respond no, respect that, let her go and keep moving, keep living and keep reaching for everything that is love and life without her. She will respect you for that, that you could heal and build a good life without her and you will have stories to tell and a full life to share with her if you get together. She knows where to contact you if and when she ever becomes ready for that relationship. If she doesn't contact you and you still feel this strongly in another 3-4 years do the same thing. Send the standard e-mail letting her know that you would like to get to know her and that you would like her to be a part of your life.

Regardless of your feelings, just realize that she has feelings too. And regardless of your wants, just realize that she has wants too. Your feelings and wants might synch one day and it might not. Who knows. No-one, and no thing can predict the future. Not even our feelings.

I thank you and the other "runner" who contributed to this topic, this is what we need here, more input from the "runners" (although I hate those tittles).
We as "chasers" need to hear the runners side so we can understand where they are coming from. It helps me a lot, as more of the chaser, because the biggest issue I had personally was not understanding the runners position.
A big issue for me with the pull, was not understanding, I appreciate any runners willing to discuss their motives and how to handle the situation.

I was actually thinking about asking some questions about chasing, and how one determines that they are interacting, without chasing. This is important for me because I have a friendship with my "runner" and I was going to ask about being sure that when I interact with him I am just interacting and not chasing. I want to be sure to know the difference, I want to interact with him because he is my friend. But I do not want to chase him anymore. I would appreciate to hear from runners what the difference is. So how would you and other runners, suggest that I interact in this situation of friendship?

Also it's really hard as someone who has had a tf experience to even give an opinion here, because as soon as you say "I have a tf or I believe in tf/sc" a lot of posters, the ones that have never experienced it, stop hearing anything else you say. Once they hear this, than NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU SAY, they only hear "I'm a tf, so I have no self love and I'm a stalker". Anything else you say, is just "blah blah blah" to them.

I think it's important to note the difference between feelings and GUT feelings/ intuition. A feeling is just that, your feeling about something. A real gut intuition is a sign, but it's important to be able to distinguish the difference. A gut feeling will tell you that you are supposed to be somewhere or interact with someone. The issue becomes when we put other expectations on it, like that means they are the one I'm supposed to be with forever. Sometimes it just means you are supposed to be with that person, at that time or have that interaction. I have learned that my gut intuition is never wrong, it's just that my confused, programmed, lied to mind than tries to put expectations on that to mean more, and that wasn't always the case. But I never had a gut feeling before like this one that I am supposed to be with someone.
So I am not interested in discussing just feelings, I'm interesting in discussing gut feelings and intuition and what those mean and tell you.

As far as belief systems go, I don't think a couple has to necessarily believe exactly the same, as long as they are accepting of each other's beliefs.
And tf beliefs, Idk, I don't like a lot of the dogmas I hear about here and wouldn't agree if those are what is being pushed online. Probably why I don't listen to many tf things online or research it anymore.
I just look at it as a soul connection and a close one. Probably a close member of your soul family, maybe the closest.

[Hemera]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

What surprises me is that the "TF belief system" doesn't account for what if one of the correspondents doesn't subscribe to those beliefs?

It's a pernicious belief system that says if A believes in it then if she/he decides B SHOULD be their twin flame, then B has no say in the matter, whatever they believe. Is that right? B is obligated to A and must surrender to A's beliefs because A says so?

That's proselyting of the worst sort.

The TF belief system doesn't allow someone who really isn't interested in A just telling A where to stick their system? Because as I see it this person isn't running in the TF sense, she just isn't interested in either you or your beliefs.

Looks like you can believe what you like but she isn't going to "convert". Why not leave her alone before it becomes stalking? You don't possess her. And what suggests it's a mental aberration is that you refuse to reconsider. You live in denial. 3 1/2 years is a long time and you aren't exactly a child.

Counselling is probably the best option.

...

This is what I find scary about the whole TF belief system. When completely identified with, it can be used to justify all sorts of extreme and even dangerous behaviour.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by Hemera

This is what I find scary about the whole TF belief system. When completely identified with, it can be used to justify all sorts of extreme and even dangerous behaviour.

Scary is always an indication of not being fully clear. Once clear, no scary. How I get clear: If the individual only talks about how X is my TF and how do I get them back/get them to wake up, that tells me poor X is the victim of someone's unhealthy obsession. If the person says X is my TF and they left because they are free and I am sad because of it, that's an indication the individual has their head screwed on straight.

Like all religions and belief systems, it's not the belief system that is the problem, it's the individual's conscious understanding and execution there of.

[Hemera]

Originally Posted by Baile

Scary is always an indication of not being fully clear. Once clear, no scary. How I get clear: If the individual only talks about how X is my TF and how do I get them back/get them to wake up, that tells me poor X is the victim of someone's unhealthy obsession. If the person says X is my TF and they left because they are free and I am sad because of it, that's an indication the individual has their head screwed on straight.

Like all religions and belief systems, it's not the belief system that is the problem, it's the individual's conscious understanding and execution there of.

Yeah I get that. I guess I'm speaking out of my experience of being on the other side of something like this, which was scary. I know it very much depends on the person's take on it.

[clueless]

Originally Posted by jro5139

I thank you and the other "runner" who contributed to this topic, this is what we need here, more input from the "runners" (although I hate those tittles).
We as "chasers" need to hear the runners side so we can understand where they are coming from. It helps me a lot, as more of the chaser, because the biggest issue I had personally was not understanding the runners position.
A big issue for me with the pull, was not understanding, I appreciate any runners willing to discuss their motives and how to handle the situation.

I was actually thinking about asking some questions about chasing, and how one determines that they are interacting, without chasing. This is important for me because I have a friendship with my "runner" and I was going to ask about being sure that when I interact with him I am just interacting and not chasing. I want to be sure to know the difference, I want to interact with him because he is my friend. But I do not want to chase him anymore. I would appreciate to hear from runners what the difference is. So how would you and other runners, suggest that I interact in this situation of friendship?

Also it's really hard as someone who has had a tf experience to even give an opinion here, because as soon as you say "I have a tf or I believe in tf/sc" a lot of posters, the ones that have never experienced it, stop hearing anything else you say. Once they hear this, than NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU SAY, they only hear "I'm a tf, so I have no self love and I'm a stalker". Anything else you say, is just "blah blah blah" to them.

I think it's important to note the difference between feelings and GUT feelings/ intuition. A feeling is just that, your feeling about something. A real gut intuition is a sign, but it's important to be able to distinguish the difference. A gut feeling will tell you that you are supposed to be somewhere or interact with someone. The issue becomes when we put other expectations on it, like that means they are the one I'm supposed to be with forever. Sometimes it just means you are supposed to be with that person, at that time or have that interaction. I have learned that my gut intuition is never wrong, it's just that my confused, programmed, lied to mind than tries to put expectations on that to mean more, and that wasn't always the case. But I never had a gut feeling before like this one that I am supposed to be with someone.
So I am not interested in discussing just feelings, I'm interesting in discussing gut feelings and intuition and what those mean and tell you.

As far as belief systems go, I don't think a couple has to necessarily believe exactly the same, as long as they are accepting of each other's beliefs.
And tf beliefs, Idk, I don't like a lot of the dogmas I hear about here and wouldn't agree if those are what is being pushed online. Probably why I don't listen to many tf things online or research it anymore.
I just look at it as a soul connection and a close one. Probably a close member of your soul family, maybe the closest.

Thank you for this post, that's how I feel some of the people see TF experience.
I actually read a lot of old topics on this forum, and it used to be 1-2 posts per 20 of people who would ridicule TF experience in the threads posted couple of years ago.
Now there is this waive of posts"you are crazy stalker who wants to cage your TF for life" - I dont take it seriously, I guess some people just like to troll on every forum or are just bitter to the point that there are going to post how TF experience is stupid, over and over again.
Whatever, I always recommend reading old threads, there is more about true understanding what soul connections are all about.



About supposedly TF runners who are proud to show us a fact that they are being chased for decades - I wouldn't say they are twin flames or they have any kind of soul connection, or meaningful connection with that other person.

Who ever writes "I was being chased by crazy TF for decades" - no, you are not.
You are being chased by person who, no matter what their reasons were, is not your TF nor you are TF.
One of the most important trade of soul connection is that people who have it, have basic human decency and compassion to tell the other person in a clear, understanding manner that they dont want to be with them.

The fact that you were being chased by a person whom you didn't want to say in a clear, understandable manner that you dont want them, does not make you TF (nor them)

TF is not about ego and "look at poor me Im was being chased by a guy I dont want but my ego likes that he's st ill around and Im gonna go around proudly saying I was being chased for that long".

If you were being chased in a literal meaning of the word -hollywood-style-action-type of the way, then Im sorry, but this is a matter for law enforcement agencies not to be discussed on spiritual forums.

Chasing is a misunderstand term, in this tread, everyone who is TF stayer is doing this now, by just participating in this topic, contemplating reasons why are TF the way they are.

Chasing is a act of pursuing understanding of this specific phenomenon and experiences, we call it TF

This, my words, my act of writing in here now is chasing - in terms of TF- since Im engaging in understanding TF experience and applying it.

If you see chasing as a stalkery, criminal or threatening type of behavior - and that is a literal meaning of term, but it is not something that we are doing in here.

[clueless]

As for original poster of this thread
follow heart or wait

there is this topic by a person who posted couple of months ago asking should he contact a girl he was dear to his heart, but decided to stay away from her for a while. He said he felt urge to contact her but was wondering should he, well couple of months later he posted again saying that he found out that she is getting married soon.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=113151


So this urge, this gut feeling - I dont know... everyone should decide for them self - that is a tricky business.

Also, I dont wanna get into "what would happen if he contacted her earlier or not" its beside the point, and the point was that this person was feeling some kind of connection and urge to contact this other person in the time when this other person was making some of the huge life decisions.

I dont even know how to explain this

[jro5139]

Originally Posted by clueless

As for original poster of this thread
follow heart or wait

there is this topic by a person who posted couple of months ago asking should he contact a girl he was dear to his heart, but decided to stay away from her for a while. He said he felt urge to contact her but was wondering should he, well couple of months later he posted again saying that he found out that she is getting married soon.
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...d.php?t=113151


So this urge, this gut feeling - I dont know... everyone should decide for them self - that is a tricky business.

Also, I dont wanna get into "what would happen if he contacted her earlier or not" its beside the point, and the point was that this person was feeling some kind of connection and urge to contact this other person in the time when this other person was making some of the huge life decisions.

I dont even know how to explain this

The gut feeling, yes it is tricky business. So are signs. So is love. I had an intense connection before, also with signs. Quite fabulous signs really, once I was debating if I should travel across the country to see someone and I closed my eyes and prayed... opened my eyes and there was a billboard with his name on it in my face. His name is the rarest name I've ever come across and I have never met anyone else with the same name.

So I know, that these other connections can be so intense and other connections can have signs, deep love and some gut feelings about things. You might call this a false twin flame, I like the term "pre-req" because it feels to me like a pre-req to my tf because some of the situation and incidences where the same.

So I had serious signs and loved him intensely, oh yeah and I had a soul contract with him as well, because when I looked in his eyes the first time, I saw a flash of light. My mind came to the conclusion that he was the one because of all this, which obviously, he was not. But a deep, strong gut feeling? I did not, I only remember falling in love with him instantly, but I don't remember having this gut feeling before now.
I also saw a flash of light when I looked in my tf's eyes and that's the only 2 times I ever remember seeing that, but I have read that it is a soul contract.

[SaturninePluto]

Originally Posted by clueless

Thank you for this post, that's how I feel some of the people see TF experience.
I actually read a lot of old topics on this forum, and it used to be 1-2 posts per 20 of people who would ridicule TF experience in the threads posted couple of years ago.
Now there is this waive of posts"you are crazy stalker who wants to cage your TF for life" - I dont take it seriously, I guess some people just like to troll on every forum or are just bitter to the point that there are going to post how TF experience is stupid, over and over again.
Whatever, I always recommend reading old threads, there is more about true understanding what soul connections are all about.



About supposedly TF runners who are proud to show us a fact that they are being chased for decades - I wouldn't say they are twin flames or they have any kind of soul connection, or meaningful connection with that other person.

Who ever writes "I was being chased by crazy TF for decades" - no, you are not.
You are being chased by person who, no matter what their reasons were, is not your TF nor you are TF.
One of the most important trade of soul connection is that people who have it, have basic human decency and compassion to tell the other person in a clear, understanding manner that they dont want to be with them.

The fact that you were being chased by a person whom you didn't want to say in a clear, understandable manner that you dont want them, does not make you TF (nor them)

TF is not about ego and "look at poor me Im was being chased by a guy I dont want but my ego likes that he's st ill around and Im gonna go around proudly saying I was being chased for that long".

If you were being chased in a literal meaning of the word -hollywood-style-action-type of the way, then Im sorry, but this is a matter for law enforcement agencies not to be discussed on spiritual forums.

Chasing is a misunderstand term, in this tread, everyone who is TF stayer is doing this now, by just participating in this topic, contemplating reasons why are TF the way they are.

Chasing is a act of pursuing understanding of this specific phenomenon and experiences, we call it TF

This, my words, my act of writing in here now is chasing - in terms of TF- since Im engaging in understanding TF experience and applying it.

If you see chasing as a stalkery, criminal or threatening type of behavior - and that is a literal meaning of term, but it is not something that we are doing in here.

See. With myself, I am not deliberately poking any fun or ridicule at tf beliefs themselves, I actually indeed find them quite interesting, intellectually.

So My posts may seem a touch harsh at times to others, but I am coming from a place of common sense, if someone split with someone 3 years ago and has been telling them no the entire time, and trying to move on, it is obvious they have no interest, and although yes the person still interested in the other may still feel a very real spiritual connection to the person stating no, they do not really have another choice than to let go of the other. There is a real reason for this, what do we call it when a woman who says no in regards to something sexual and the male forces it? That is where I am coming from. When someone tells someone no, they usually mean it, male or female. Thinking they are saying no but meaning yes, is delusional thinking.

I have literally had a stalker like individual, come up to me, and try to speak with me, etc.
And even though and admittedly, there seemed fo5r me there may have been a soul connection there, my answer was still no. I don't take kindly to being forced to speak with anyone, or otherwise feel forced to spend any amount of time with anyone. I will if I actually want to, but I will not tolerating being forced, by any individual, or any others whom may try to force me to be around someone I don't want to. Our time as individuals is important. And so is Our free will.

I actually feel awful about the whole situation.. I had to take physical action against another, and that is really not who I am and most certainly not what I would have preferred to have to do. So I do feel apologetic for my own actions, and I am not in a place of blame for either myself or the other individual.

But when it comes down to it and let's not be unrealistic, although yes the concepts of twinflames yes is very beautiful, and soul connections can be very strong and life changing, sometimes the way in which people view the concept is very unhealthy.

I do not personally see people as runners and chasers. I feel those terms are very derogatory. I see people as just that, people. Human beings, with thoughts, feelings, and individual spirits and will.

And I believe the point in my original post still stands, it was 3 years ago. She said no. Her no should mean something. It is just as important as a yes would have been, and just as meaningful.


Blessings.

[Nan948]

Originally Posted by jro5139

I thank you and the other "runner" who contributed to this topic, this is what we need here, more input from the "runners" (although I hate those tittles).
We as "chasers" need to hear the runners side so we can understand where they are coming from. It helps me a lot, as more of the chaser, because the biggest issue I had personally was not understanding the runners position.
A big issue for me with the pull, was not understanding, I appreciate any runners willing to discuss their motives and how to handle the situation.

I was actually thinking about asking some questions about chasing, and how one determines that they are interacting, without chasing. This is important for me because I have a friendship with my "runner" and I was going to ask about being sure that when I interact with him I am just interacting and not chasing. I want to be sure to know the difference, I want to interact with him because he is my friend. But I do not want to chase him anymore. I would appreciate to hear from runners what the difference is. So how would you and other runners, suggest that I interact in this situation of friendship?

Also it's really hard as someone who has had a tf experience to even give an opinion here, because as soon as you say "I have a tf or I believe in tf/sc" a lot of posters, the ones that have never experienced it, stop hearing anything else you say. Once they hear this, than NO MATTER WHAT ELSE YOU SAY, they only hear "I'm a tf, so I have no self love and I'm a stalker". Anything else you say, is just "blah blah blah" to them.

I think it's important to note the difference between feelings and GUT feelings/ intuition. A feeling is just that, your feeling about something. A real gut intuition is a sign, but it's important to be able to distinguish the difference. A gut feeling will tell you that you are supposed to be somewhere or interact with someone. The issue becomes when we put other expectations on it, like that means they are the one I'm supposed to be with forever. Sometimes it just means you are supposed to be with that person, at that time or have that interaction. I have learned that my gut intuition is never wrong, it's just that my confused, programmed, lied to mind than tries to put expectations on that to mean more, and that wasn't always the case. But I never had a gut feeling before like this one that I am supposed to be with someone.
So I am not interested in discussing just feelings, I'm interesting in discussing gut feelings and intuition and what those mean and tell you.

As far as belief systems go, I don't think a couple has to necessarily believe exactly the same, as long as they are accepting of each other's beliefs.
And tf beliefs, Idk, I don't like a lot of the dogmas I hear about here and wouldn't agree if those are what is being pushed online. Probably why I don't listen to many tf things online or research it anymore.
I just look at it as a soul connection and a close one. Probably a close member of your soul family, maybe the closest.

Hi jro5139. You are still in contact with your twin flame. Why don't you ask them how they feel. Ask them to rate you as a friend. Are you doing ok? Are you being a good friend? Do they have feedback on how you can improve as a friend? That kinda thing. Yes I am actually serious about this.lol Only they would know how you are doing as a friend. If you are friends and still in contact you guys must be doing something right, so keep that up. Communication, honesty and respect is the key when it comes to twin flame relationships.

As long as you communicate, show each other respect, love, and understanding I don't think you both should be booted into the runner/chaser mode and if that happens and you find yourself chasing, just stop chasing and work on the issues that are making you chase. It is that simple. It takes effort and will but it is possible and it takes the twin flames out of this phase of their relationship and into a healthier one faster.

Yes, a couple does not have to have the same beliefs but they have to be in synch where they both want to and both are ready and able at the same time to be in a relationship with each other. If one is ready and the other is not, it is painful. If they are both ready but they can't because of previous responsibilities or whatnot, it is painful. So really these have to be in synch in order for twin flames to get together.

I am not a fan of the twin-flame label myself. There is a lot of room for misunderstanding when it comes to this label. Who knows, I might have a sunray, lightray, blueray, confusedray, befuddleray relationship instead of a twin flame relationship. :-) To me the label really does not matter, just the experience. The label does not change the experience or give more or less weight to the experience because frankly I just found out about the twin flame label 2-3 years ago. My twin flame and I met years ago, before the twin-flame label.

Chasing for me in a twin flame relationship is more of an energy and telepathic thing. It can happen via e-mail and in person but I think that we have discussed this form of chasing. Energetically twin flames can tell most anything about their twin flames and they will push their energy towards their twin frequently. It is best to pull energy back to self and center ourselves when this happens because this is draining for both twins. That is why honesty in everything is so important in this relationship, because twins can do this and this energy is felt strongly. Doesn’t matter the distance, they can tell the energy you put out to them is not platonic and they feel this energy intensely. So, if you tell him you want to be friends make sure your energy says friends, and not “I love you so much come be with me now”, because they will feel it and know that you are not truthful with your needs.

Telepathically, well telepathically is part of the chasing. Some twin flames have the ability to communicate with each other telepathically. You can feel their thoughts, emotions every day and all day if they miss you and focus on you. This causes stress on both twin flames and stop both parties from living life and healing. So, it is just best to focus on life, instead of them and wanting them, and missing them and wanting to be with them. There is nothing wrong with feeling and sending these thoughts every now and then especially if there are energies filled with love and acceptance and patience. But communication like that filled with so much pain and longing for both parties sent every day is not healthy for both parties and stunts their ability to expand.

That “pull”. Don’t make it take you over. Think about that pull in a clear manner before reacting to the pull. That pull makes twin-flames crazy and makes all logical thought go out the window and mess up the twin flame relationship even more. I know you have to bring up your Herculean strength to resist the pull, because that pull is like” if you don’t move where I tell you to move physically I will pull the spirit out of your body so move now.” :-) But don’t move without thinking about that pull. That pull is just telling us what we already know. That our twin-flame relationship is unhealthy and we need to work at fixing it together, getting on the same page and that we are getting farther and farther away from the twin flame relationship. And working on that relationship is a continuous process and doesn’t start when the pull comes. And when that pull comes the stronger the pull the more negative the message showing us how far away we are from our twin flame. When that pull comes we think we have to act on it immediately and usually we do this in a very unhealthy manner. Sometimes that pull comes because our twin-flame needs us and is calling us because we are not there. Sometimes that happens when our twin have a big life changing moment whatever that may be. But mostly it is showing us how unhealthy the relationship is and how far away we are getting from our twin flame. We would not have that pull if the twin flame relationship was healthy and going in the right direction. That pull would turn into off the chart deep connection, love, security and belonging. That pull is just mostly a warning...New Update, Heads up, Incoming message - Not Good. If the relationship was healthy, that pull would not come.