One More Question... :) Why do people so desire to AP?

[Xanth]

Originally Posted by Rin

The thoughts of other well-respected and commonly acknowledged as knowledgeable people is something to be considered, or not?

Yes, everyone has a valid opinion to add to the story. No doubt.
But the most anyone else's experiences can be to you are beliefs. It's important to have your own experiences. It's important to be able to take those beliefs and turn them into personal knowns 'to you'.

I've learned over the years to use other people's experiences as a guide to my own experiences... and to NEVER use them as a rule.

This journey we're each experiencing in the non-physical is as unique and personal as a fingerprint.

Recreational drug use has certain effects, many said to be pleasant, but generally it is not recommended. There are healthy and unhealthy practices. I am not saying that AP is unhealthy, but it certainly has miniscule support if compared to e.g. meditation. Why is that?

What can be achieved through AP which is not possible by other practices?

Well, what most people don't realize is that the acts of meditation and astral projection are very interconnected. When you learn one, you're learning the other as well. However, meditation would be the easier of the two to learn first... and that's what I usually express to people wishing to learn one or both. As you progress through meditation you'll come to realize the connection between your consciousness and this reality.

As for recreational drug use... I'm vastly against it as a means of experiencing the larger reality. If you can't do it on your own without those aids... you need to try harder (not meaning you personally lol). :)

Rin Rin:
I can't figure it out either and the reasons given for doing it sound neither convincing nor reasonable to me.

Why don't the answers sound either convincing or reasonable to you? Probably some little personal taboo on your part. Might shake your beliefs and therefore, your identity.

Rin Rin:
Would it be a good test to check how many of the recognized religions and traditions, including their mystical arms, advocated this practice?

Recognized religions? By you? Would it be a good test to check? Probably not. That would be answered by ordinary people who personally believe whatever.

I don't understand why people do most of the things they do, war and genocide, destruction of their planet, overpopulation, greed, avarice, and the exploitation of everything, believing in religions and then their hypocrisy in it, their need to control others, allowing and supporting the types of governments they do, governments that take from the poor and disadvantaged but give to the rich, rape, murder, child molestation, assault, reality tv shows, etc, etc, etc.

Would it be a good test of religions to check how many of the recognized religions and traditions, including their mystical arms, advocate these practices? And yet they persist.

Why would anybody bother to ask about astral projection?

Recognized religions and traditions, mine is not a religion but called so by many.
Buddhism = 0, ??? Dzogchen is under the auspices of 2, perhaps 3 schools of Buddhism. The Nyingma certainly. The Bon, recognized finally by the Dahli Lama, They have a different Buddha, Dzogchen has a different name there - different language. The Kagyu school or any that teach the yoga of radiant light and illusory body. I should have paid more attention in class. Ah, a lot of this is on the net. It's the teachings that are esoteric. Not about them. What about all those religions in India? Certainly enough yogas transported out of there to Tibet and back again. Some probably practice astral projection.

What am i doing? I'm Dzogchen. I practice. Therefore it is. Got a problem with it? Take it up with the boss - Avalokiteśvara.

I think you mean your personal religion doesn't approve of it.

Rin Rin:
What can be achieved through AP which is not possible by other practices?

Nothing for you. And as for me or my sangha - none of your business.

WOW you all are awesome. It was a 'true' question of curiosity and not judgement at all as to anyone's motive. I am sorry I didn't reply sooner. My son graduated this weekend and it was just insane around here. I didn't even have time to check my email never mind browsing on here :)

I will respond 'specifically' this afternoon after I get my daughter back to the airport :)

Thanks for all the wonderful replies

Originally Posted by sahaja

Nothing for you. And as for me or my sangha - none of your business.

By the tone of your post I am happy that I do not to belong to your sangha.

[Kontufuto]

This is a good emotional thread too...not just a straight-forward question type of thread. Good to see a few here! Nothing wrong with getting it out.

Originally Posted by GregoryScott

It’s actually fascinating what happens to the human being when it becomes harmonized with itself. During my early years of meditation I began noticing not only was I changing physically but my memory had become heightened to say the least. I began having lucid dreams every night. In the morning I would remember somewhere between 5 to 10 dreams a night; and with great detail. I would meditate every night before sleep around 30 min a session. After about 6 months during meditation one night I ejected from my body and fully aware of what was happening. After that night my body would go through the same vibrations before going to sleep; actually it occurred every time I would relax. When I finally gave up meditation after a few years it all stopped. In my opinion this is a natural stage of the human development. During the AP process not only does the body feel at peace but the mind as well. It’s almost as if the mind, body and spirit have all merged and harmony engulfs your entire being.

WOW I am learning so much on this thread :) Glad I started it...thank you guys...

Gregory,
You said you gave up meditation, may I ask why after so many years of diligence with it? I was meditating every night before bed and it was wonderful and I need to get back to it. It kept me centered calm and giving me grounded perspectives. I find myself miserable without it now....my fault

Did you give it up because it no longer was useful for you? I'm just curious and understand if you do not want to respond.

[Lynn]

Hello

Good question. As someone that from the earliest age of 6 I remember being able to do this and just thought like seeing dead people it was someting we could all do and not talk about it. So to come to be 18 and free from home and finally learn that is is so something that people struggle to learn to do. So I had to always wond in why I came in so different being able to do things other's have to learn.

Why can I do it I have finally come to acccept that there is a meaning to it all as I do use it daily. It maybe comes from the many pre life's I have had and that it is simply natural to me nothing more. We can all do it but like all things maybe its not best that we all try it. Not all could accept that happening to them and in some case it might well even clash with one's faith to the point it could bring them harm.

I have three kids that can all naturally do it and man trying to explain that to the school was not the most fun but they needed to understand that me kids are different. LOL when ye's 11 year old asks to sit by the window so he can 'fly' out of it and the class is on the third floor it promps the phone call and a meeting. To go well he simply want to Astral from the boaring class lessons. LOL.

Why desire it in many cases it becasue its something we know that we can do in theory and we seek to try it. In other cases it can be a useful too when one is suffering from chronic pain or an illness with pain that the med's are not controlling it can simply get that break from the body.

For me I so seek to understand how it works when one has to learn it. I have successfully lead class meditaitons where one's have made the journey out for the first time and their emotion is amazing and their facical expression honesly says WOW.

Lynn

Originally Posted by Rin

By the tone of your post I am happy that I do not to belong to your sangha.

You can say that again. Geez, that was rude, wasn't it?

Sahaja also said:

We may be atheists but we don't negate the god realm. They're caught on the same cycle. They just think themselves so perfect they don't realize they are caught.

A little oxymoronic there too! LOL!

I've just been reading all the comments and some make me laugh so hard I think I'm going to be sick! Why would I want AP (god I really hate this term because for me the experience is nothing but a lucid dream).

That's not the point, anyway. I want to do this because it can potentially improve my life and it has already. It has helped me to stop smoking and taking drugs for once and I've only been thriving since. It has also given me wonderful artistic ideas and has helped me to problem-solve! Whether it is lucid dreaming or something more isn't the point. The experience itself has a lot more to do with being awake than dreaming and the things you can do in such state far exceeds your expectations. It is an altered state of consciousness that forces you to look at things from a different perspective. A few good reasons for practising have already been mentioned. Everyone should do it or they will miss out!!!

For those who say they avoid it because their lives are so perfect already: you are only limiting yourself, but, if you are content with your limited scope, stay that way - I couldn't care less - as far as I know, you are boring, have nothing interesting to say and we certainly don't want to hear your reasons for not doing this.

Originally Posted by metarealityseeker

WOW I am learning so much on this thread :) Glad I started it...thank you guys...

Gregory,
You said you gave up meditation, may I ask why after so many years of diligence with it? I was meditating every night before bed and it was wonderful and I need to get back to it. It kept me centered calm and giving me grounded perspectives. I find myself miserable without it now....my fault

Did you give it up because it no longer was useful for you? I'm just curious and understand if you do not want to respond.

Tell me about it… the only thing in life I have ever regretted was walking away from my meditation practice.

As you probably know the changes that occur during the process of long term meditation is that not only do you spiritually transform on a daily basis, but the world as you knew it no longer looks the same either.

I was seeing people much clearer than they saw themselves; the anger, the manipulation, the confusion, the pain… and of course there were brief moment’s beauty. In essence it seemed everyone around me was just plum crazy!

I could no longer relate to anyone, and I mean no one. And of course, the reason I stopped, I no longer recognized my own wife; it seemed she was crazier than all of them.

And the worst part of it was I knew it all along; and I still gave up meditation like a fool.

I guess I felt I needed to fit into a lifestyle I cared nothing for in the first place just to be happy… hmmm… now who is the crazy one??? tehe



Of course all of that is in the past, and now look at it as a necessary stage in my spiritual development.

I can still feel it all so deep within me, it’s figuring out how to reopen this channel that’s proven much more difficult than I could have ever imagined. Something tells me you know this as well…



I apologize for such a lengthy answer; I reduced it as much as I could.


Greg

Lynn :
In other cases it can be a useful too when one is suffering from chronic pain or an illness with pain that the med's are not controlling it can simply get that break from the body.

How wonderfully true this is, both for projection and dreaming.

Originally Posted by Rin
By the tone of your post I am happy that I do not to belong to your sangha.

Summerlander:
You can say that again. Geez, that was rude, wasn't it?

Rin Rin:
I can't figure it out either and the reasons given for doing it sound neither convincing nor reasonable to me.

Would it be a good test to check how many of the recognized religions and traditions, including their mystical arms, advocated this practice?

Now i found that rude. As if personal reasons required a need to convince or justify (reasonable). And why on earth would it need to be advocated by a religion?

Summerlander:
For those who say they avoid it because their lives are so perfect already: you are only limiting yourself, but, if you are content with your limited scope, stay that way - I couldn't care less - as far as I know, you are boring, have nothing interesting to say and we certainly don't want to hear your reasons for not doing this.

As long as we're critiquing rudeness - AND THIS isn't rude? They might not be entirely boring and who knows, they might have something interesting to say about something.

Or the following isn't rude?

Summerlander:
I've just been reading all the comments and some make me laugh so hard I think I'm going to be sick! Why would I want AP (god I really hate this term because for me the experience is nothing but a lucid dream).

The experience is nothing but a lucid dream to you. So if all you do is lucid dream, why aren't don't you stay in the in the dream section of this forum? There's a sub section for lucid dreams. Astral projection apparently is a bit beyond you yet. And i'm sure someone has probably said that before.

Summerlander:
Sahaja also said:
Quote:
We may be atheists but we don't negate the god realm. They're caught on the same cycle. They just think themselves so perfect they don't realize they are caught.
Summerlander:
A little oxymoronic there too! LOL!

Not really, but it might require a little knowledge of Buddhist realms. Or at least the ability to google it. The God realms are on the list along with all the rest. So if you're going to make comments without any knowledge of an area you might appear to be a little oxymoronic yourself (without the oxy).
...But a persons definition of God can vary widely and all definitions are of conceptual mind, not that which lies beyond it, which is therefore undefinable.

Quote:
Rin:
What can be achieved through AP which is not possible by other practices?
Reply:
sahadj:
Nothing for you. And as for me or my sangha - none of your business.

Much of the teachings are esoteric. But thats the how, not the what. Maybe i'll post another reason for my interest in projection.

Rin:
By the tone of your post I am happy that I do not to belong to your sangha.

Since getting off the cycle of birth - death those that cling to ignorance are trapped in is the purpose of Buddhism/Dzogchen, and they sound neither convincing nor reasonable to you couldn't belong to a sangha.

Has anyone listed any nefarious reasons for projection? Case a place to rob, corporate espionage, check up on your significant other, watch what the neighbors are doing, are there no guys out there contemplating being peeping toms? Since the question was only why one might want to AP those could also be reasons.