How do I know myself as Consciousness?

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Baile

That's precisely where conceptual road veers into the ditch. Everything is not illusion, far from it. Love is quite real.

I do not disagree with ya, I was just paraphrasing what others have said on this forum.

[Baile]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I do not disagree with ya, I was just paraphrasing what others have said on this forum.

No problem Mike. And I'm suggesting that what others have said needs to be reexamined. These are not either-or questions. No question is.
~

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Baile

No problem Mike. And I'm suggesting that what others have said needs to be reexamined. These are not either-or questions. No question is.

Yep. There are a lot of spiriual and religious belief systems out there that say that physical reality is a negative thing or even an evil thing that should be ignored, overcame and thoughtt of as an illusion or not real. All these people have to do to know and experience that this is not true, is set aside their negative beliefs for a moment and open their eyes and pay attention to what is right in front of thier eyes. I know and experienced this myself, because I was one of these negative people.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by Baile

That's precisely where conceptual road veers into the ditch. Everything is not illusion, far from it. Love for example is quite real.

Samadhi is experiential, not conceptual, and there is no lover, loved or love in Samadhi. There is only union and that's not even right because it's a word which is a thing which is an object and therefore separation. Ultimately speaking. Transcendentally speaking.

From the relative perspective love appears to be real and if we accept that as ultimate reality then we have to accept hate as ultimate reality too, so then there is no escape from suffering, not even in death if one subscribes to duality (Earthly world, Heaven and Hell, endless cycles of rebirth and death, etc...). It's a package deal, so to speak. "Whoso wears the form also wears the chain" as Vivekananda often said.

I'm not saying love doesn't appear. What I am saying is it's a very imperfect appearance (mind-limited) of That. A distorted reflection in a clouded mirror. Vivekananda equated spiritual practice to polishing a mirror.

Of course this is all from a nondual perspective and seems like crazy talk from the perspective of duality.

[MikeS80]

[quote=J_A_S_G]It's a package deal, so to speak. "Whoso wears the form also wears the chain" as Vivekananda often said./QUOTE] Thank you for this, The above quote of Vivekananda is a part of the Song of the Sannyasin composed by Swami Vivekananda, and answers the questions I asked you about whom the I, me, myself is and whom or what realizes. The song also includes "Know thou art That", The answer is Atman or soul or spirit. Here is the full Song of the Sannyasin:


“Who sows must reap,” they say, “and cause must bring
The sure effect: good, good; bad, bad; and none
Escapes the law. But whoso wears a form
Must wear the chain.” Too true; but far beyond
Both name and form is âtman, ever free.
Know thou art That, sannyâsin bold! Say,
“Om Tat Sat, Om!”

https://vimokshananda.org/2013/01/12...e-sannyasin-2/ song paragragh #4

[Ewwerrin]

@MikeS80
post #20

I love your question. Because it reminds us that seperation and limitation, an inherently negative mechanism, is used by our consciousness for positive purpose.

It allows us to focus on the specifics of our desires in linear time and space fashion, to manifest it in the way we prefer it to be. In exclusion of the thing we don't want. And also furthermore fine tune our preference as we go along. In real time. Co-creating together with your greater source consciousness.

So you are not seperate, from ANYTHING, except the seperation you choose to focus upon as a consciousness, usually because you enjoy it or aspects of it, and so it has value and it is added upon your overal reality creating. To enjoy the reality as you want it to be.

So this idea of seperation is not a bad thing. And you have such profound acces to any and all things you can possibly imagine. But if you suddenly have a new desire, or a desire for more of a particular thing, it does require you to focus atleast a little bit more consistently upon, to really feel the good feeling positive emotion, indicating that you are making that vibrational adjustment towards the very thing you like/want.

So you can always acces a different reality, but you do need to gradually shift to that reality when it becomes of your preference, if you enjoy a stable reality like I do.

So it is basically all up to you. You can have it in any way you can possibly want it.

As for the word Sublime. I can understand what you say. I actually always thought that sublime ment, allot of variety in simultaneous harmony, like, for example, a very expensive meal at a very expensive restaurant, eating the food and tasting all the immensely profound flavors that compliment eachother in such "sublime" ways.
So, I kind of think that what you said can be used for the word Sublime aswell. It is basically a high frequency and very accurate and presice to the minute details of satisfaction.

You can say in some sense that you are "seperate" from God Source, but it's not true. You are infact INSEPERABLE from God Source. As physical extension. You choose to experience seperation, but not for some kind of lesson or punishment or anything like that. It is simply your desire to have a bigger playing field. A bigger platform with more variety, contrast and inpsiration to choose your specific desires and preferences from as you go along enjoying your life and adding this and that, by virtue of your enjoyed focus upon the things you prefer.

And so, God Source is always right here and now with you. And infact, the reason that you feel your emotions indicating the relativity between your focus and that of God Source, who is here in unconditional love and support of every thing you desire to be, do or have in evermore available and guided realisation, is exactly BECAUSE you are inseperable.

If even the most tiny little seperation of you from God Source were possible, you would instantly be disconnected and feel no emotion, and cease to exist from any and all timelines and in all dimensions. YESTERDAY. By manner of speaking.
Because it's simply not possible.

In the worst case, you "die" (not really) and instantly come back into full alignment with God Source, with super consciousness, and instantly come into harmony with and realise any and all things you can possibly want to be, do or have.

But ofcourse, if you are focused in timespace, even a tiny negative emotion, like mild confusion, is basically God Knocking on your door, reminding you about your preference, that you are focused away from. So there is a deviation from your own true will, whenever you feel negative emotion. Ofcourse that is not a punishment. But a reminder, messenger and gift, telling you, "hey! unwrap me!"
You allow yourself to realise your preference out of that negative unwanted realisation, as it helps you clarify your preference. And then focusing consistently upon that preference would emmediately yield emotional relief or satisfaction, indicating the manifestation is going to be pleasing, if you continue to enjoy your newly realised desire, unconditionally.

[J_A_S_G]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The song also includes "Know thou art That", The answer is Atman or soul or spirit. Here is the full Song of the Sannyasin

Yes, and the verse about "Whoso wears a form Must wear the chain" means identification with (wearing) mind-body necessarily results in identification with (wearing) the chain of Samsara (cycle of birth, dissatisfaction & death).

Atman is beyond that. Freedom from the chain of Samsara. That's what Vivekananda means.

[Ewwerrin]

@Baile
post #18

Haha, yes, I usually sumerize before post, this time you did it for me.
And yes, it is amazing how free we are to choose negative things.
So many times in my life I have thought "Ok, this is the end... I have reached the point of no return. I will never recover from this. My life is over. Done..."
And then it turns out to be not even the beginning.

Freedom is profound. Consciousness is capable of so much variety, and such great reach. It is so unlimitted in even the most limiting of experiences. How we can turn reality so profoundly, on a dime.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by J_A_S_G

Yes, and the verse about "Whoso wears a form Must wear the chain" means identification with (wearing) mind-body necessarily results in identification with (wearing) the chain of Samsara (cycle of birth, dissatisfaction & death).

The one whom wears the chains is the one whom does not Know thou art is atmnan.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

@MikeS80
post #20

I love your question. Because it reminds us that seperation and limitation, an inherently negative mechanism, is used by our consciousness for positive purpose.

Yes, exactly.