Totemism, Animsim and/or Pantheism

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

I see the definitions can be loose and the isms overlap, hence its not always easy to get first time. I still struggle too.

In my language;
Animism means everything, eg tree, rock, moon, etc has life.
Totemism seems to have a significant item as a guide.

gTm
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George, I am very much interested in these subjects and particularly the indigenous cultures or religions when they are in their original form, untarnished with modernism or modern cultures. Yes some ancient people all over the world bear a kind of resemblance in terms of their beliefs, nature worship and cultural attributes. There is an undercurrent of universality amidst the seeming miscellany all of us feel.

Originally Posted by manu

George, I am very much interested in these subjects and particularly the indigenous cultures or religions when they are in their original form, untarnished with modernism or modern cultures. Yes some ancient people all over the world bear a kind of resemblance in terms of their beliefs, nature worship and cultural attributes. There is an undercurrent of universality amidst the seeming miscellany all of us feel.

I am with you, enjoy the untouched cultures and feel strongly that that must be preserved after such a long time of destruction. But in saying that, I have minimal contact with them only knowing some Australian aborigines. I probably need to get out more...

I think these days people are more open to the traditional as the next generations are having a closer affinity to the earth.
gTm
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Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

Cool, just found a new section on this forum that interests me as I enjoy learning about the indigenous cultures and beliefs.

Would you say the Native American beliefs are classified as Totemists, Animists and/or Pantheists? Or is there such a wide variety that it they could be all, some or none of the above?

gTm
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You will not find many of us first nations people who go by those terms

Yes, our spiritual belief system is very complex, and interesting! In a way it is a wide variety, especially if you account for all my people across the world, a large race made out of several hundreds of nations, and then tribes within nations. The beliefs and culture of all these nations are all very similar, but with differences depending on the land. But in another way, it is very simple and not wide variety at all.

We have oral informations passed down from generations from the time the earth was first created, that was way before christianity was invented, even before what we call ancient times.

Our beliefs mainly stem from and are interconnected to the earth, we learn from the earth. We believe everything has a spirit, rocks, grass, mountains, everything. We believe in one main Creator, however also, many several deities/gods/spirits and many mythological creatures that are of equal importance. We have very strict traditions to be followed for the spiritual path. It is not a path followed lightly, and unlike any free spirited spirituality, there are many several rules. Some people are meant to follow different paths. These rules are sacred, and are not talked about, especially not written. We do not concept good and evil. We believe both light and dark are the same. Many people perhaps view our ways as creepy at times because of that. There exists no bad. In fact we respect the elements of dark. You may hear of stories of monsters who eat fearful souls. It's not a bedtime story meant to make children afraid. We even pray to these so called monsters. It takes a lot of understanding to understand, our beliefs can be very paradoxical.
For example, Raven (my main spirit guide), the mythological shapeshifting trickster, known to be a bad guy, who steals, thieves, tricks, deceives. But he is also very powerful medicine, and his tricks and use of darkness helps us to see truth. Do you see the paradox? There are many who believe him to be a sign of bad luck. But at the same time, he is a sign of good luck, and he is a good guy. He also helped assist with creation, and his tricks have helped people and the world into goodness and light, and is one of the most powerful mythological deities that exists all over the world. Raven is a good high frequency being. But he is also known for his human characteristics. He is the only animal that exists today, that has the power to shape shift into any form he wants.
We have many names for different things, and levels of spirituality. We believe when one is called to have gifts, it is sent from the spirit world.

As for animals, they are a huge aspect of the belief system, they are high frequency ascended beings in animal bodies that are like mentors to us, especially the spirit animals. Yeah, we eat animals Always have. But it was a sacred way. There are still natives who venture off into the woods, to have a deer come to them, and drop down dead. Then obviously ceremony is carried out. We don't take anything, without giving back.

If you can see animal spirits, then you might see hundreds of animal spirits following a person who hunts, or has lived in the forests for a long time. People who are close to nature, or who live in the bush, tend to have lots of animal spirits as spirit guides following them.

Animal totem, only stands for your family crest. A lot of white folks today get that mixed up with animal guides heehee! It is a birthright, part of the family ancestry. It has nothing to do with anything else. Basically you are born into your family, and then you get your family crest animal, the same as the rest of your family, something that gets passed on down from generation to generation. It is a tribal thing, to sort people out, and does have spiritual attributes, but i won't get into that. It's the same as groups in tribes back in the olden days, councils, or warrior parties, they would all adopt an animal to represent them. Animals were important.

Animal spirit guides are different. You can have several animal spirit guides. I have many. Your main spirit guide, will be an aspect of who you are, what your life path is, your ugly shadow qualities, and your gifts, but most importantly your most important mentor.
So, basically, when you have an animal spirit guide, it is much more than just "look up the definition meaning on google to what it means" it is working with the medicine powers and gifts that animal spirit has to offer you.
You can find out what your animal spirit guide is, by strengthening your spiritual senses and seeing them, going on a vision quest. Or by, what animal you resonate with. What animal you want to learn from. What animals tend to surround you on a regular basis. Easy simple stuff like that. And then, learn from them.

Thank you thunderseed.

I enjoyed reading your reply very much. Its very difficult to find true traditional insights.

What you have said resonates with others I have found after many many google inqueries..lol but google is a good place to start!

Do you have a native word for the animal spirit guides?

Hi Thunderseed, I too truly appreciate your detailed replay and insight. Thanks for sharing...

I do have some comments if you are interested:

- Sorry to classify but going back to the original post, IMO believing everything has a spirit is animistic, believing there is a creator is theistic and having a guide like Raven seems Totemistic (is that a word?). Personally my tendencies are animist (everything has spirit) and pantheist (God is the universe).

- I agree with you comments about no good or bad, just light and dark. For me it it like yin/yang where one has to exist with the other. Your mention of your guide that exhibits both is interesting. In a way we are all like that as we learn to accept that no-one is perfect.

- I accept and understand that you eat animals but I enjoy the difference that you have is the respect you give animals. To me that is important and lost by many.

- Now that you have described spirit guides and totems helps my understanding. As far as I know I have no guides and being a white man in the city, I don't see many of them and the ones I do see (dogs, cats, birds) don't resonate with me. Should I have guides? I don't know. Is an ant classified as an animal?

I am Australian and have had some contact and friends who are aboriginal. I don't think I have ever met a native American Indian (although I may have when travelling in the US as a kid). I see the white man is very separate from the indigenous but there is so much to learn from indigenous cultures, especially relating to our world. They need to be respected and preserved.

One thing I do believe is that I share one thing with the indigenous aboriginals, and that is we are born of the same land. My ancestors werent but I was

Regards
gTm
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Originally Posted by Docha

Thank you thunderseed.

I enjoyed reading your reply very much. Its very difficult to find true traditional insights.

What you have said resonates with others I have found after many many google inqueries..lol but google is a good place to start!

Do you have a native word for the animal spirit guides?

Oh man, it has been a long time since i spoke Cree! "Atayôhkan", means spirit animal, or spirit guide. We can also call them dream spirits.

In most times with english, we refer to them as "the four leggeds", "the winged ones", or "the water people" even, the crawling ones. And the powerful ones, the supernatural ones. The plant kingdoms. Even the star people, stone people, referring to all spirits as respected beings. Or you could just call them by their animal names. Like, call a wolf, a wolf In cree Wolf is pronounced Mahegan. Little wolf, would be Maheganus. Eagle is pronounced Mikasoo. A dog, would be pronounced Ateem, most people write it Atim. But cree is written mostly in weird symbols. A horse is Mistatim, like a "big dog". The word "Mista" is usually put in front of a word to make it something big, like the mistaseepee (big river), which they call Mississippi River in the plains. A bear is Maskwa, an owl is Oho, because that's what it sounds like.

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

Hi Thunderseed, I too truly appreciate your detailed replay and insight. Thanks for sharing...

I do have some comments if you are interested:

- Sorry to classify but going back to the original post, IMO believing everything has a spirit is animistic, believing there is a creator is theistic and having a guide like Raven seems Totemistic (is that a word?). Personally my tendencies are animist (everything has spirit) and pantheist (God is the universe)..

If categorizing and putting a name to your beliefs is helpful to you, then of course, i guess you could say that! There are similarities in the ways all people go about the sacred path. I personally find it a lot easier to use the word "spiritual" . Totemistic means, (from an online dictionary) an animal, plant, or natural object serving among certain tribal or traditional peoples as the emblem of a clan or family and sometimes revered as its founder, ancestor, or guardian, so it is not exactly a belief in spirit guides. Generalized paganism more so fits with native culture. Not entirely, but it's a close enough match. And sure it could be theism, but you would be thinking of the big word "Polytheism", since we believe in more than one deity. And "Spiritualism" seems to be a good label for the belief in spirit contact, guides and such.

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

- I agree with you comments about no good or bad, just light and dark. For me it it like yin/yang where one has to exist with the other. Your mention of your guide that exhibits both is interesting. In a way we are all like that as we learn to accept that no-one is perfect..

Yes but of course, we are silly humans!

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

- I accept and understand that you eat animals but I enjoy the difference that you have is the respect you give animals. To me that is important and lost by many..

Yes people have become greedy, and have lost the old ways of giving back, and not taking more than mother earth can spare.

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

- Now that you have described spirit guides and totems helps my understanding. As far as I know I have no guides and being a white man in the city, I don't see many of them and the ones I do see (dogs, cats, birds) don't resonate with me. Should I have guides? I don't know. Is an ant classified as an animal? .

Yes ants are, they would be the crawling people, ants can be spirit guides. Hey, it all depends on if you want one or not I could say easily, everyone has one, but i'm not sure about that. And in the end, you won't meet one until you want to believe it! I know there are a lot of people who are adopted by their pets when their pets pass on, it is very common. Oh i live in the city now too. That doesn't stop animal spirits from coming to me. An animal guide doesn't just come to you because it sees you walking around in the bush, it is a spirit communication, a spirit guide, a mentor for your path. You can have many, even an animal that doesn't live in your climate. You can have all sorts of beings as guides, not just animals. If you want to know the answers to that, i suggest meditation to see if you do have one, don't rely on what i say, the answers are inside of you.

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

I am Australian and have had some contact and friends who are aboriginal. I don't think I have ever met a native American Indian (although I may have when travelling in the US as a kid). I see the white man is very separate from the indigenous but there is so much to learn from indigenous cultures, especially relating to our world. They need to be respected and preserved.

One thing I do believe is that I share one thing with the indigenous aboriginals, and that is we are born of the same land. My ancestors werent but I was .

Thanks for sharing!

Originally Posted by thunderseed

If categorizing and putting a name to your beliefs is helpful to you, then of course, i guess you could say that! There are similarities in the ways all people go about the sacred path. I personally find it a lot easier to use the word "spiritual" . Totemistic means, (from an online dictionary) an animal, plant, or natural object serving among certain tribal or traditional peoples as the emblem of a clan or family and sometimes revered as its founder, ancestor, or guardian, so it is not exactly a belief in spirit guides. Generalized paganism more so fits with native culture. Not entirely, but it's a close enough match. And sure it could be theism, but you would be thinking of the big word "Polytheism", since we believe in more than one deity. And "Spiritualism" seems to be a good label for the belief in spirit contact, guides and such.

Thanks for that up date. I do hate being boxed but I am interested in "tendencies" For Totemism, I found the following on wiki.

According to the anthropologist Tim Ingold, animism shares similarities to totemism but differs in its focus on individual spirit beings which help to perpetuate life, whereas totemism more typically holds that there is a primary source, such as the land itself or the ancestors, who provide the basis to life. Certain indigenous religious groups such as the Australian Aborigines are more typically totemic, whereas others like the Inuit are more typically animistic in their worldview.

Yes people have become greedy, and have lost the old ways of giving back, and not taking more than mother earth can spare.

Like!

Yes ants are, they would be the crawling people, ants can be spirit guides. Hey, it all depends on if you want one or not I could say easily, everyone has one, but i'm not sure about that. And in the end, you won't meet one until you want to believe it! I know there are a lot of people who are adopted by their pets when their pets pass on, it is very common. Oh i live in the city now too. That doesn't stop animal spirits from coming to me. An animal guide doesn't just come to you because it sees you walking around in the bush, it is a spirit communication, a spirit guide, a mentor for your path. You can have many, even an animal that doesn't live in your climate. You can have all sorts of beings as guides, not just animals. If you want to know the answers to that, i suggest meditation to see if you do have one, don't rely on what i say, the answers are inside of you.

For some reason ants appeal to me. So many, so organised, so strong. I see people have some of the same tendencies. I found it interesting in your previous post that everything is "people".

I have been told so many times to meditate - yet I don't. Must start a new habit...

Cheers
gTm
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Hi Thunderseed,
Just after writing earlier about ants, there is sometimes this one big ant that wanders our bath at night. I went to the bathroom and there it was.... It made me smile
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George, look into books by bobby lake-thom, very good at explaining the basics! It helped the understanding settle for me, my problem was I was making it all far to complicated...lol

I absolutely adore the native american language as well. L though the sioux takes hold more than any other dialects, I love to hear and read them all. There is something more sacred to me about using the old language to talk to the spirits. (Any of them)

I have to admit I am not so knowledgable of the cree. I appreciate the information a lot! Thank you.