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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Philosophy & Theory

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  #1  
Old 21-08-2014, 01:00 PM
Dwerg Dwerg is offline
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Selfishness and selflessness

You may not have noticed, but I intentionally put "and" instead of "vs." in the title. This is what it's about.

Selfishness and selflessness seems to be an age old debate that never ends. Who ever said we're one or the other? Setting it up as "vs." is literally begging for conflict and confusion, but this is often what I see being done. Both sides are equally bewildered as long as they argue about such things.

It's not that simple. Even if it is such that people are selfless out of self-interest there would be no problem as it's a win-win. Doing something selfless is still doing something selfless regardless of intrinsic motivation. Doing something selfish to someone else's disadvantage is selfish and clearly not good in any moral sense. Being self serving without doing something at the expense of others is not to be judged by others.

I don't get what the discussion is about. I have a sense that it's never me or you, rather it's me and you.
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  #2  
Old 21-08-2014, 01:31 PM
Xiomara Xiomara is offline
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What you are saying makes a lot of sense.Thanks for reminding things we should know,but sometimes choose to forget.
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  #3  
Old 10-09-2014, 05:03 PM
The Back Seat The Back Seat is offline
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Maybe we need to define the self first. Is "self" the physical mind body, or our higher conscienceness. The definition can be either and is dependent on the person. Someone who is set in the egotistical mind would define "self" as their physical existing mind body. One who has a deeper spiritual understanding and can see past the ego at a higher conscienceness, would define "self" as the spiritual self.

Egotistical view - selfishness and selflessness can not exist together at the at the ego level. All that exists at this level is selfishness, whether they are pretending to be selfless for self gain or just out right selfish. People set in their ego tend to be less understanding of someone else's emotions and therefore less able to act selflessly to be of assistance.

Higher level view - someone who is in touch with there conscienceness can be both. They can understand their selfish need to survive and that all that exists in their universe is themselves and what they make of it, while understanding that they should be selfless when considering someone else's universe and what is best for them. People at the higher level can sense another's emotions and therefore can truely act out of selflessness.

I believe all life is constantly switching between the ego mind set and their higher selves. Sometimes we need our ego to survive (do we sacrifice our selves to help another or do we continue to exist out of a selfish desire to survive?). The ego is were our fight or flight response exists and is where survival of the fittest exists (completely based on a selfish notion). Humans, and other organisms, have the ability to reach a higher consciences and make a selfless decision (giving some of your food to help another who is starving even if you may go to sleep hungry). Not everyone chooses to exist at this level (especially during times of unrest). God gave life the ability to exist at these two levels in order to ensure that organisms can pass down the strongest possible genes to ensure species survival while giving us the ability to exist at a higher level where companionship exists and life can work together for a better societal outcome. If there was only one level, life could not sustain itself. If only ego existed then there would only be self survival and no reproduction. If there were only a higher level, it would be impossible for survival of the fittest and therefore no evolution. The simplest of life was able to evolve into multicellular organisms thanks to a natural balance of both.
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  #4  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:09 AM
Dwerg Dwerg is offline
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Regarding the issue of self I often see the question "what part of me is truly me?". I think that question is irrational, because what part of me is not me? The idea of ego is no more than an idea, and in many cases it does the opposite of the initial intention. Consider the following scenario: Person A is asking for help, person B is judging this person for having a bad ego or a ego at all. The first person now has yet another problem, the ego. What does ego mean? It means simply "self" or "I". So to clarify and take away the confusion over the word "ego", you could say that person B is telling person A that Person A is having a problem with him/herself. In other words it doesn't help anyone, if anything it only states the obvious and reinforces a person's belief that they are a wandering problem.

Regardless of why people do what they do they still do what they do. Giving is a selfless act regardless of why a person is giving. I could find countless reasons to support giving and all of them are right without being mutually exclusive.
- I give because I like it.
- I give because it's right.
- I give because I like being given to.
- I give because it serves me.
- I give because I know it will be reciprocated.
- I give because God tells me to.
- I give because my mom/dad/friend/everyone tells me to.
- I give because it makes me look good.

It doesn't matter what reason is put to it, I still appreciate when something is given to me. I still know that giving back is the only fair response. Also by giving and the other person appreciating I can sympathize and feel the good that they feel, it's a win/win. The very act in itself is what matters, because at least in my world actions speaks louder than words ever can. Why? I've had people screw me over with pretty words and see that their actions speaks quite the opposite story. On top of that they blamed me for being egotistical when I slammed the brakes and cut them of for abusing my goodness. What did I see in their actions? They gave nothing back. I don't demand things in return, but who says I don't deserve just as much as them?

Lesson learned: Being selfless is self-destructive without justice. The ones who make themselves helpless are best helped by leaving them only one option, to help themselves. Because at an extreme we only have one choice, to end it right now or to live. Anyone in their right mind choose life, and by doing so have no real choice. Thus they will find a way, and I can think of no better win/win than me not being burdened by someone else's problems and them knowing they can deal with it like everyone else. In any case I have no right to live someone else's life, and to help such people is to further undermine their freedom.

Higher self or lower self, makes no difference as I can't avoid being I no matter what I believe. I am not my beliefs, they are a part though.
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  #5  
Old 25-09-2014, 12:33 PM
SaraTherase SaraTherase is offline
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I personally believe that selfishness comes from the mind/ego its is a learned behavior and selflessness is from your heart/true self and is embedded in our spirit. We come into this world as selfless beings. They are both apart of us, like yin and yang an essential balance is needed between the two to experience what you have come here to experience.
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  #6  
Old 25-09-2014, 02:11 PM
The Back Seat The Back Seat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraTherase
I personally believe that selfishness comes from the mind/ego its is a learned behavior and selflessness is from your heart/true self and is embedded in our spirit. We come into this world as selfless beings. They are both apart of us, like yin and yang an essential balance is needed between the two to experience what you have come here to experience.


I like the yin yang correlation to selflessness and selfishness. Good one. If everything was positive, there would be no attraction in life. The negative is needed to make the appopriate balance. Selfishness should be considered necessary in life for survival but balanced with the selflessness of a loving heart.
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