Am I think only one who thinks Lucifer is real?

And I serious. I see so many people saying the humans make up their own hell, that they do not believe in demons or Lucifer etc etc and it does make me question.

Now I am a child of the light, I surround myself with positive energies, and commune with the Higher beings of Archangels, Gods, Ascended Masters (all of which have deep respect for)...I create a positive environment for myself, in which working with the higher beings manifests great things. But I also think, there has to be an opposite to all of this...along with all of the positivity there has to be negativity. There are positive, and light spirits, so there has to be negative, and spirits.

So let me get to Lucifer, who to me is dark and negative and the complete opposite to him is Archangel Michael, who without a doubt is full of light, and positive. This is how I believe Lucifer is real, with Michael, you might know his presence, you feel warm, happy and safe - I know this as he is one of my parent angels at this point of time. But there are times, where I have sense Lucifer's presence as well, and all without calling him. His presence is a indescribable feeling of fear and dread just washing over you - without any reason, I have sensed this many times in the past, and you just can not stay in that same room, you just feel yourself screaming at you to get out. Which I did, and without a second thought calling on Michael for protection. Even now, I still feel sense his presence every now and then, but now I do not run out of the room, I stay firm and call on Michael.

That is why I believe Lucifer is real, because I have sensed him as well as I can sense Michael - their energies are powerful, but completely different. The world is not full of positivity as we much like to think, there are opposite forces against us. Also I would have to mention, if there was the world had nothing but positivity, wouldn't Michael be out of the job as our Protector? ;)

Sorry for blabbering, and or not making much sense. I just wanted to put this out there, and see if anyone agrees or has similar ideas. :)

Michael, I pray to you to help me attract to some good replies to this. :)

There is something I have never understood, is there a suitably evolved One that can explain something to me? People talk about balance and thinking of only the positive as they try their best to ignore the negative. How does that work?

If you talk about positive then surely in order for it to be positive there has to be a negative? Wouldn't the Universe - in its balance - need something that is the opposite of all that is good and right? Yep, that's Duality for you. As soon as you say there's a positive then there has to be a negative, otherwise there is no negative. Perhaps it's less about being positive and negative and more about being relative. Like electric current. It's neither good nor bad in itself but it flows, out one end and into the other. Electricity is neither good nor bad, it's just energy - use it to cook your friend a nice meal or use it to cook your friend :-)

While I agree with - almost - all of your post, Angel, I'd like to pick up on your " there are opposite forces against us". I don't think there are forces against is, just those giving us another perspective - a Dualistic perspective. If there is such a thing as positive then surely there has to be something negative as well? Can positivity exist on its own? Or does it exist because we believe it does? And in creating the positive, do we also create the negative?

Or is it our perceptions of energy resonating at different frequencies? If you resonate with the "Higher beings of Archangels, Gods, Ascended Masters" then the energies you sense from Lucifer wouldn't resonate with you at all.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

There is something I have never understood, is there a suitably evolved One that can explain something to me? People talk about balance and thinking of only the positive as they try their best to ignore the negative. How does that work?

If you talk about positive then surely in order for it to be positive there has to be a negative? Wouldn't the Universe - in its balance - need something that is the opposite of all that is good and right? Yep, that's Duality for you. As soon as you say there's a positive then there has to be a negative, otherwise there is no negative. Perhaps it's less about being positive and negative and more about being relative. Like electric current. It's neither good nor bad in itself but it flows, out one end and into the other. Electricity is neither good nor bad, it's just energy - use it to cook your friend a nice meal or use it to cook your friend :-)

While I agree with - almost - all of your post, Angel, I;d like to pick up on your " there are opposite forces against us". I don't think there are forces against is, just those giving us another perspective - a Dualistic perspective. If there is such a thing as positive then surely there has to be something negative as well? Can positivity exist on its own? Or does it exist because we believe it does? And in creating the positive, do we also create the negative?

With this sentence: " there are opposite forces against us", I admit I DID have trouble explaining that, as I am not sure what else this negativity may be against - the light yes, and that is what we are trying to achieve so we are vulnerable. I am glad you understood what I mean, and like you said there is so much focus of the positivity that they ignore the negative, and this is not a balance, but also makes them vulnerable to confusion when there is a negative force around them. And put it bluntly, they freak out and do not know how to handle it.

Originally Posted by AngelicOrin

With this sentence: " there are opposite forces against us", I admit I DID have trouble explaining that, as I am not sure what else this negativity may be against - the light yes, and that is what we are trying to achieve so we are vulnerable. I am glad you understood what I mean, and like you said there is so much focus of the positivity that they ignore the negative, and this is not a balance, but also makes them vulnerable to confusion when there is a negative force around them. And put it bluntly, they freak out and do not know how to handle it.

What colour is light? The human eye sees a white light but with the help of the rainbow we see that there are more colours to this white, and we wonder how white can be made up from red, yellow........ It is how us humans can perceive it, and if we look closely enough there are no barriers between one colour and the next, instead there is a gradual merging from one colour to the next. But then there is infra-red and ultra-violet, beyond the scope of what the human eye can see but it still exists. Carry that metaphor through with light being energy and up and down the scale it goes, far beyond infra-red and ultra-violet. If that light goes into the infra-red or ultra-violet, we cease to perceive it but we can still feel its effects. Ask anyone who is sunburnt :-) Perhaps this is what we mean when we talk of Light and Dark, the Light is what we can perceive but the Dark is a lack of perception. It becomes a place of fear, scary, and we create monsters that inhabit its depths.

Heroes, they come in all shapes and sizes. As do the victims they save. But within all of that there is a flow of energy, the interaction between the damsel in distress and the hero who saves her. That is part of another energy matrix, that of the event that creates the opportunity for the damsel in distress and the hero to exist - to experience. Without that event there are no damsels in distress for the heroes to save, therefore no experience for either of them. Is the event good or bad, or is it simply the result of the energy that creates the opportunity for experience? Does good and bad simply become a judgement depending on what side of the coin you are on?

Tying the two together......... Is the realm of Ascended Masters et al beyond the ultra-violet, is the realm of Lucifer beyond the infra-red? If 'We Are One' as has been said many times on these forums, are the two realms so diametrically opposed? Is that even possible? Or are they beings/dimensions who/that vibrate at different frequencies the same as we and this dimension does? As Above, so Below? Do the Ascended Masters create their experience matrix energies for us to experience as much as Lucifer does? Is it all Light, just vibrating at different frequencies?

We place our consciousness in resonance with this plane so we can experience, we get what we want or need then we judge it.

Yes, they do freak out when fear kicks in. So much reaction, very little interaction. There's a good example of this in another thread where - in my humble opinion - fear has thrown common sense out of the window. Fear kicks into overdrive and suddenly their world becomes a crazy place, sliding down that slippery slope towards even more confusion. For me, the simplest and most effective thing to do would be to take a good, deep breath and take it from there. Throw the reaction away and interact appropriately, whatever form that may take.

I was thinking of something similar when I was creating this thread, where people create their own "hell" via negativity, which makes me think, so what else is feed that negativity, that hell? Because we certainly know that we can create our own "heaven" with positivity, with God, the Archangels and Masters. Something with that just doesn't ring right to me, there needs to be a balance...

I certainly wish I had the answers to your questions about the vibrations, but I can not be sure if any of them are the correct answers. But the best way I can put it all in perspective (and I hope I am some what right). God and the heavenly beings are the light vibrations. And at the same time there is a dark vibrations, the counter-vibration of Lucifer and his dark forces. I would say the frequencies are similar, creating a balance, I would consider the it is the energy surrounding them are different, that is how we can differ them.

^ I hope you got all of that, it is hard explaining what I want to say into writing. :)

But yes! I agree with you 100% about fear! with fear all rationality goes out of the window, people do not know how to handle it. Which makes me worry about those who just ignore the fact the Lucifer may very well exist - they might not believe, but he may very much exist - if they were to suddenly come across him, and they do not know how to handle themselves.

Originally Posted by AngelicOrin

I was thinking of something similar when I was creating this thread, where people create their own "hell" via negativity, which makes me think, so what else is feed that negativity, that hell? Because we certainly know that we can create our own "heaven" with positivity, with God, the Archangels and Masters. Something with that just doesn't ring right to me, there needs to be a balance...

Perhaps if you see the Universe in terms of positive and negative then yes, there does need to be a balance, but is that the way things really are? Many times in my Life I have been in a situation that could have been seen either way. So you lose your job, is that bad? Possibly, if you can't pay the rent. But if you're in a mind-numbing job and being unemployed lets you have the time to follow a pastime that is close to your heart? Or perhaps being in that mind-numbing job fills your time, being unemployed would drive you to distraction as you struggled to find something to do with yourself all day long? Positive and negative are judgement, the way we choose to perceive it. Some see heaven as hell, some see hell as heaven. While you see being with the Ascended Masters as heaven, some may not have the same perspective.

Originally Posted by AngelicOrin

I certainly wish I had the answers to your questions about the vibrations, but I can not be sure if any of them are the correct answers. But the best way I can put it all in perspective (and I hope I am some what right). God and the heavenly beings are the light vibrations. And at the same time there is a dark vibrations, the counter-vibration of Lucifer and his dark forces. I would say the frequencies are similar, creating a balance, I would consider the it is the energy surrounding them are different, that is how we can differ them.

Whose answers are you comparing against? The best answers are your own, which is the whole point (I believe) of having so many differing perspectives. For me, it's not about who or what is right and wrong but about the diversity.

Going back the the rainbow, what you call Light and dark forces are at different ends of the spectrum. It's all relative. High frequencies are high because you have low frequencies to compare them to. Are the barriers artificial, like a scientist saying "Infra is in this range, visible in that range and ultra is another range"? Does the Universe make a difference in its frequencies or is it simply something that has a whole range of frequencies, each one as important as the next? Does the Universe judge? Or does it see these frequencies as necessary so that the hero can save the damsel in distress? If you believe in positive and negative, then surely if you believe God as the ultimate in positivity shouldn't you also believe in the ultimate in negativity - as in Lucifer?

Lucifer sends you to a dark place, and you find yourself on rock-bottom with a sickening thud. So you dust yourself off and reach for the Light. How many times have you heard different variations of the same theme? Is what Lucifer did so negative after all, because without it you wouldn't have come to that Life-changing revelation? Perhaps at the time it happened it was bad, but some positive came out of it. Or is it a change in the energies, the change of frequency between the energies that landed you with that sickening thud to the energies that made you climb higher?

Originally Posted by AngelicOrin

^ I hope you got all of that, it is hard explaining what I want to say into writing. :)

Yes, I got it :-) But where you see light and dark, I don't. Perhaps if we understood the interactions between two seemingly opposed forces better they would cease to be Light and Dark.

Originally Posted by AngelicOrin

IBut yes! I agree with you 100% about fear! with fear all rationality goes out of the window, people do not know how to handle it. Which makes me worry about those who just ignore the fact the Lucifer may very well exist - they might not believe, but he may very much exist - if they were to suddenly come across him, and they do not know how to handle themselves.

Perhaps God and Lucifer are archetypes for something that we don't fully understand or we set our judgement on. Across the course of history most pantheistic religions have become monotheistic, perhaps God and Lucifer are the last bastions of Separation.

An interesting article about the origin of the word Lucifer.


"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else:
"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati.
What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?

The answer was a surprise. I had to sit back into a cotton bean bag chair and take a moment before continuing. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."

Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.

So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...."


Henry Neufeld (a Christian who comments on Biblical sticky issues) went on to say:


"this passage is often related to Satan, and a similar thought is expressed in Luke 10:18 by Jesus, that was not its first meaning. It's primary meaning is given in Isaiah 14:4 which says that when Israel is restored they will "take up this taunt against the king of Babylon . . ." Verse 12 is a part of this taunt song. This passage refers first to the fall of that earthly king...

How does the confusion in translating this verse arise? The Hebrew of this passage reads: "heleyl, ben shachar" which can be literally translated "shining one, son of dawn." This phrase means, again literally, the planet Venus when it appears as a morning star. In the Septuagint, a 3rd century BC translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek, it is translated as "heosphoros" which also means Venus as a morning star. How did the translation "lucifer" arise? This word comes from Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Was Jerome in error? Not at all. In Latin at the time, "lucifer" actually meant Venus as a morning star. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded."

Therefore, Lucifer wasn't equated with Satan until after Jerome. Jerome wasn't in error. Later Christians (and Mormons) were in equating "Lucifer" with "Satan".

So why is this a problem to Christians? Christians now generally believe that Satan (or the Devil or Lucifer who they equate with Satan) is a being who has always existed (or who was created at or near the "beginning"). Therefore, they also think that the 'prophets' of the Old Testament believed in this creature. The Isaiah scripture is used as proof (and has been used as such for hundreds of years now). As Elaine Pagels explains though, the concept of Satan has evolved over the years and the early Bible writers didn't believe in or teach such a doctrine. The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Perhaps if you see the Universe in terms of positive and negative then yes, there does need to be a balance, but is that the way things really are? Many times in my Life I have been in a situation that could have been seen either way. So you lose your job, is that bad? Possibly, if you can't pay the rent. But if you're in a mind-numbing job and being unemployed lets you have the time to follow a pastime that is close to your heart? Or perhaps being in that mind-numbing job fills your time, being unemployed would drive you to distraction as you struggled to find something to do with yourself all day long? Positive and negative are judgement, the way we choose to perceive it. Some see heaven as hell, some see hell as heaven. While you see being with the Ascended Masters as heaven, some may not have the same perspective.

That is very true, that is a very good way of putting it as well - I can not add anything to this. :)

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Whose answers are you comparing against? The best answers are your own, which is the whole point (I believe) of having so many differing perspectives. For me, it's not about who or what is right and wrong but about the diversity.

Going back the the rainbow, what you call Light and dark forces are at different ends of the spectrum. It's all relative. High frequencies are high because you have low frequencies to compare them to. Are the barriers artificial, like a scientist saying "Infra is in this range, visible in that range and ultra is another range"? Does the Universe make a difference in its frequencies or is it simply something that has a whole range of frequencies, each one as important as the next? Does the Universe judge? Or does it see these frequencies as necessary so that the hero can save the damsel in distress? If you believe in positive and negative, then surely if you believe God as the ultimate in positivity shouldn't you also believe in the ultimate in negativity - as in Lucifer?

Lucifer sends you to a dark place, and you find yourself on rock-bottom with a sickening thud. So you dust yourself off and reach for the Light. How many times have you heard different variations of the same theme? Is what Lucifer did so negative after all, because without it you wouldn't have come to that Life-changing revelation? Perhaps at the time it happened it was bad, but some positive came out of it. Or is it a change in the energies, the change of frequency between the energies that landed you with that sickening thud to the energies that made you climb higher?

Yes those answers are my own, because that is how I see it. God is pure positivity and light, in the middle us (and everyone else who fits in the same catagory as us) who are rather neutral, as we can swing either way, then there down at the end, is Lucifer - pure negativity, and darkness.

To seek God, for happiness, all the good things, we all reach for the light, we look to the heavens for it - we turn our backs against the darkness, and Lucifer. When we get closer to that light, we become protected when we surround our selves with this positive energy. But why do many people reach for this light? Because they have faced Lucifer, they have hit rock-bottom, they were surrounded in darkness, and the only way out is finding that light. I know this from personal experience.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Yes, I got it :-) But where you see light and dark, I don't. Perhaps if we understood the interactions between two seemingly opposed forces better they would cease to be Light and Dark.

Defiantly, there needs to be more understanding and more conversations about it. Many people just go "nope, I do not believe in this so I wont talk about it." and they won't open up to the idea that for positivity to be around, so does negativity - there are two sides to every coin. But just saying that, I also think people are actually scared of the topic, scared that Lucifer is actually real, that afraid they do not dare themselves to believe.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Perhaps God and Lucifer are archetypes for something that we don't fully understand or we set our judgement on. Across the course of history most pantheistic religions have become monotheistic, perhaps God and Lucifer are the last bastions of Separation.

You know what, I was actually thinking about this, and as I was thinking on the Ancient Egyptian Gods. The God they feared the most was the Set, he was the God of the desert and storms - he was their "negative" deity, was feared and respected, because he was destructive and powerful. With understanding comes a mutual respect to the unknown.

[Adrienne]

Elijah ~ most interesting ! Both articles, but especially the first one.

Dream Angel xx

ps edited my post - removing the quote of the article, just for you AO - saving space in your thread, lol !

Originally Posted by Elijah

An interesting article about the origin of the word Lucifer.
...

(did think re-quoting the articles was necessary) :)

But to me it shouldn't matter what you call him, Lucifer/Satan/Devil - he is the same, it like just like on other deity may have different names but the deity remains the same. We all know who and what we are referring to, so a mutual understanding is all we need. :)

Interesting though. :) I knew that Lucifer means "Morning Star", but those articles are interesting, despite the fact the bible stuff does make me go out of wack.