I have every excuse for not believing in God

[MattMVS7]

I would like to speak on behalf of not only myself, but on the behalf of all other nonbelievers out there. First off, Christianity says that the law has been written in our hearts so that we instinctively know that God is real. I think this is nonsense. I have never felt God was real and have never considered the concept of a God until much later on when I stumbled upon the bible and Christianity. The same thing applies to people in other areas of the world who have never heard of a God.

If it were embedded in them as some sort of instinctive divine knowledge, then they would feel it and be aware of it. Christianity would say that it is our blind and sinful nature that makes us blind and unaware of this knowledge. But this is just a claim. It is a claim no different than the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. So how do you expect me or anyone else to take your word for it?

I am, however, a very open minded person. I am very open minded to what skeptics have to say and also to what believers in the afterlife, God, and the paranormal have to say. The only way to arrive at the truth is through an honest open minded mindset. That is the only right way to do it because any other way would be close minded/irrational.

Christians expect me to believe in the gospel after I have read it. Now that would be close minded to do so. Even if I felt God's presence in my life, that would also be close minded for me to just believe God is real because feelings do not dictate what is true and not true. Feelings are irrational and do not tell you what is true and not true.

I have read the gospel and I don't believe it because there are so many things out there to be open minded to besides just some story in a book of a holy man being crucified on the cross. We have all the claimed evidence out there that is claimed to support Christianity and we also have the claimed evidence on the skeptics' side as well.

I have researched online time and time again with an open mind towards skeptics who claim the paranormal/God evidence to be nonsense and towards believers who claim that the evidence is authentic and that the skeptics are talking nonsense. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate back and forth that just leads nowhere. It is no different than those philosophical debates that go on and on between sides of a debate, but lead to no conclusion.

The concept of God and life after death has been a topic debated by scientists and philosophers for ages. I just think it is a bit unrealistic here to expect me to dedicate my entire life into researching into virtually everything that has been debated for ages in order for me to come to the right conclusion when such a conclusion might not even exist. I have researched all I could and I just have to stop here. I have lost interest and I just have to remain undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife.

Also, just because many things seem to all add up to the existence of God and the afterlife and just because these things sound very compelling, that does not make it so. There are plenty of things that add up and sound very compelling to support any other claim out there, but that does not make that claim plausible or true. As a matter of fact, such claims have been proven false despite the fact that they sounded very compelling at the time.

Therefore, I cannot conclude that God and the afterlife exist on this basis either. In other words, you can present to me all the claimed evidence out there that makes a compelling case for Christianity, but that will not convince me either since I have a very open mind and I already realize that just because something sounds compelling does not make it so.

Lastly, many Christians would tell me that I am blinding myself from God's presence and that I am sinning by doing this open minded research. First off, this presupposes that Christianity is true to being with. How do you expect me to be convinced of that when I have already done all the research I could and am still not convinced? Secondly, doing open minded research is the only way to come to the right conclusion because all other ways are close minded/irrational.

So with all of this being said, if Christianity is true and the Christian God is real, then we are clearly talking an unfair God here. You can clearly see the predicament I am in and not only is it a hopeless predicament where there is no way to convince me God is real, but is also a completely understandable predicament that should be sympathized with. I see absolutely no reason at all to see such a predicament as being worthy of punishment in hell. To think so would be asinine, absurd, cruel, unfair, and daft.

Therefore, the only way God can be all loving and all just would be if I weren't to go to hell and that God would introduce himself to me after I die and give me the choice as to whether I want to serve him or not. I should not just automatically go to hell simply because I did not believe and did not dedicate my life to someone I did not believe existed in the first place.

[sky]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I would like to speak on behalf of not only myself, but on the behalf of all other nonbelievers out there. First off, Christianity says that the law has been written in our hearts so that we instinctively know that God is real. I think this is nonsense. I have never felt God was real and have never considered the concept of a God until much later on when I stumbled upon the bible and Christianity. The same thing applies to people in other areas of the world who have never heard of a Go

If it were embedded in them as some sort of instinctive divine knowledge, then they would feel it and be aware of it. Christianity would say that it is our blind and sinful nature that makes us blind and unaware of this knowledge. But this is just a claim. It is a claim no different than the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. So how do you expect me or anyone else to take your word for it?

I am, however, a very open minded person. I am very open minded to what skeptics have to say and also to what believers in the afterlife, God, and the paranormal have to say. The only way to arrive at the truth is through an honest open minded mindset. That is the only right way to do it because any other way would be close minded/irrational.

Christians expect me to believe in the gospel after I have read it. Now that would be close minded to do so. Even if I felt God's presence in my life, that would also be close minded for me to just believe God is real because feelings do not dictate what is true and not true. Feelings are irrational and do not tell you what is true and not true.

I have read the gospel and I don't believe it because there are so many things out there to be open minded to besides just some story in a book of a holy man being crucified on the cross. We have all the claimed evidence out there that is claimed to support Christianity and we also have the claimed evidence on the skeptics' side as well.

I have researched online time and time again with an open mind towards skeptics who claim the paranormal/God evidence to be nonsense and towards believers who claim that the evidence is authentic and that the skeptics are talking nonsense. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate back and forth that just leads nowhere. It is no different than those philosophical debates that go on and on between sides of a debate, but lead to no conclusion.

The concept of God and life after death has been a topic debated by scientists and philosophers for ages. I just think it is a bit unrealistic here to expect me to dedicate my entire life into researching into virtually everything that has been debated for ages in order for me to come to the right conclusion when such a conclusion might not even exist. I have researched all I could and I just have to stop here. I have lost interest and I just have to remain undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife.

Also, just because many things seem to all add up to the existence of God and the afterlife and just because these things sound very compelling, that does not make it so. There are plenty of things that add up and sound very compelling to support any other claim out there, but that does not make that claim plausible or true. As a matter of fact, such claims have been proven false despite the fact that they sounded very compelling at the time.

Therefore, I cannot conclude that God and the afterlife exist on this basis either. In other words, you can present to me all the claimed evidence out there that makes a compelling case for Christianity, but that will not convince me either since I have a very open mind and I already realize that just because something sounds compelling does not make it so.

Lastly, many Christians would tell me that I am blinding myself from God's presence and that I am sinning by doing this open minded research. First off, this presupposes that Christianity is true to being with. How do you expect me to be convinced of that when I have already done all the research I could and am still not convinced? Secondly, doing open minded research is the only way to come to the right conclusion because all other ways are close minded/irrational.
Aaaaa
So with all of this being said, if Christianity is true and the Christian God is real, then we are clearly talking an unfair God here. A can clearly see the predicament I am in and not only is it a hopeless predicament where there is no way to convince me God is real, but is also a completely understandable predicament that should be sympathized with. I see absolutely no reason at all to see such a predicament as being worthy of punishment in hell. To think so would be asinine, absurd, cruel, unfair, and daft.

Therefore, the only way God can be all loving and all just would be if I weren't to go to hell and that God would introduce himself to me after I die and give me the choice as to whether I want to serve him or not. I should not just automatically go to hell simply because I did not believe and did not dedicate my life to someone I did not believe existed in the first place.

Why do you want people to convince you ?
If you don't believe then why post about God ?

[MattMVS7]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why do you want people to convince you ?
If you don't believe then why post about God ?

I'm not trying to make people convince me. I am wanting to discuss how it is unfair that if Christianity is true, then if I were to go to hell for not believing in it, that would be cruel and unjust considering the predicament I and others are in.

[sky]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I'm not trying to make people convince me. I am wanting to discuss how it is unfair that if Christianity is true, then if I were to go to hell for not believing in it, that would be cruel and unjust considering the predicament I and others are in.

If you do no harm and try to live your life without doing evil then you won't be going to the hell that some believe in. ( not that I believe in hell )

You don't need to follow any religion to live your life morally,, there are lot's of good people who don't believe in a God and lots who do and still cause misery for others.

Do your best not to cause pain and suffering to others and you will be fine, believe what you want to believe and follow your own path and leave others to follow theirs.

[HealerW]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I would like to speak on behalf of not only myself, but on the behalf of all other nonbelievers out there. First off, Christianity says that the law has been written in our hearts so that we instinctively know that God is real. I think this is nonsense. I have never felt God was real and have never considered the concept of a God until much later on when I stumbled upon the bible and Christianity. The same thing applies to people in other areas of the world who have never heard of a God..

I'm curious to know why you feel that belief in God is such a big deal if you have never felt that he is real or had ever even conceived of him/it until you "stumbled" onto it. History would make a pretty strong case that every saint who ever lived, every Christian mystic, every preacher, every person who worshiped God all had a deep, unexplainable, and unfettered compulsion to seek God. "Seek and ye shall find" is true, regardless of that which you seek. If you don't feel drawn to the Invisible or the mysterious, then why not just chunk it and pursue your passion. If God is love, then you'll find it (but it may not end up tasting much like Christianity in the end), and that's all that matters.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

If it were embedded in them as some sort of instinctive divine knowledge, then they would feel it and be aware of it. Christianity would say that it is our blind and sinful nature that makes us blind and unaware of this knowledge. But this is just a claim. It is a claim no different than the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. So how do you expect me or anyone else to take your word for it?.

The passage of Paul in Romans that speaks of the law being written on our hearts is a reference to moral law. So if nothing else were introduced in his teaching, we are, at the very least, a law unto ourselves. Every culture has these basic tenets scribbled onto our DNA through evolution. Don't kill. Don't lie. Don't steal... etc. These are the rules that keep societies healthy and safe from crumbling from within.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I am, however, a very open minded person. I am very open minded to what skeptics have to say and also to what believers in the afterlife, God, and the paranormal have to say. The only way to arrive at the truth is through an honest open minded mindset. That is the only right way to do it because any other way would be close minded/irrational..

Keep this attitude. Weigh everything. Believe nothing. What you know will be what you know.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Christians expect me to believe in the gospel after I have read it. Now that would be close minded to do so. Even if I felt God's presence in my life, that would also be close minded for me to just believe God is real because feelings do not dictate what is true and not true. Feelings are irrational and do not tell you what is true and not true..

Is the Gospel meant to be taken literally? What if it's a way to explain something hidden? What if most people even today still aren't ready to handle the truth? Have you ever considered the life, death, and burial of Jesus Christ as an allegory for something more profound than just a tale of some small town rabbi with a death wish?

There are paths for those who tend to distrust feeling. If you are more inclined to use your intellect, you can still benefit greatly from studying these things.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I have read the gospel and I don't believe it because there are so many things out there to be open minded to besides just some story in a book of a holy man being crucified on the cross. We have all the claimed evidence out there that is claimed to support Christianity and we also have the claimed evidence on the skeptics' side as well..

Sadly, people will first believe, then build an argument. I would say argue first, then Know.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I have researched online time and time again with an open mind towards skeptics who claim the paranormal/God evidence to be nonsense and towards believers who claim that the evidence is authentic and that the skeptics are talking nonsense. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate back and forth that just leads nowhere. It is no different than those philosophical debates that go on and on between sides of a debate, but lead to no conclusion..

I agree with the skeptics who would say there are a multitude of believers who are full of nonsense. I also agree that much of what people argue over are the superficial elements of any religion that don't actually matter when they boil it all down. The hidden treasure, the holy grail, the prize, the kingdom of heaven remains safely tucked away where the moths and rust, the haters and deniers can never destroy it.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

The concept of God and life after death has been a topic debated by scientists and philosophers for ages. I just think it is a bit unrealistic here to expect me to dedicate my entire life into researching into virtually everything that has been debated for ages in order for me to come to the right conclusion when such a conclusion might not even exist. I have researched all I could and I just have to stop here. I have lost interest and I just have to remain undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife..

I agree that it would be unrealistic for you to dedicate your life to something you have no passion for. If you truly have lost interest, then I would encourage you, again, to find something that brings meaning to your life. The joy and immeasurable fulfillment you experience on your deathbed, will be a wink from your True God. And it probably will turn out not to be an angry white-bearded sage in the sky.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

In other words, you can present to me all the claimed evidence out there that makes a compelling case for Christianity, but that will not convince me either since I have a very open mind and I already realize that just because something sounds compelling does not make it so..

You'll never find proof outside of yourself that God exists or that Christianity is a workable system to reconcile with Him.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Lastly, many Christians would tell me that I am blinding myself from God's presence and that I am sinning by doing this open minded research. First off, this presupposes that Christianity is true to being with. How do you expect me to be convinced of that when I have already done all the research I could and am still not convinced? Secondly, doing open minded research is the only way to come to the right conclusion because all other ways are close minded/irrational..

I would recommend that you disregard what Christians say. I don't know any Christians in the real sense of the word. I would say they are rare. You probably have well-meaning people try to get you to join the band wagon they chose, so they can have someone else validate their own claims of what is true. Don't follow people. As far as your "open-minded research", it sounds to me like you're having a hell of a time enjoying yourself. Why torture yourself? Don't research unless you want to or you have to (assigned for college credit, for example).

As far as research being the only way to come to the right conclusion... I would say sometimes you're hit with a knowing, and you've done no work at all.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

So with all of this being said, if Christianity is true and the Christian God is real, then we are clearly talking an unfair God here. You can clearly see the predicament I am in and not only is it a hopeless predicament where there is no way to convince me God is real, but is also a completely understandable predicament that should be sympathized with. I see absolutely no reason at all to see such a predicament as being worthy of punishment in hell. To think so would be asinine, absurd, cruel, unfair, and daft..

The good 'ol "unjust God" argument... People are unjust. I would say the God we've created is likewise.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

Therefore, the only way God can be all loving and all just would be if I weren't to go to hell and that God would introduce himself to me after I die and give me the choice as to whether I want to serve him or not. I should not just automatically go to hell simply because I did not believe and did not dedicate my life to someone I did not believe existed in the first place.

What if the only hell that exists is here and now? What if you're in it? Would you want to find heaven?

Your profile name reminds me of a Bible verse. It may or may not mean anything to you. Check out Matt. 7:6.

[neil]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I would like to speak on behalf of not only myself, but on the behalf of all other nonbelievers out there. First off, Christianity says that the law has been written in our hearts so that we instinctively know that God is real. I think this is nonsense. I have never felt God was real and have never considered the concept of a God until much later on when I stumbled upon the bible and Christianity. The same thing applies to people in other areas of the world who have never heard of a God.

If it were embedded in them as some sort of instinctive divine knowledge, then they would feel it and be aware of it. Christianity would say that it is our blind and sinful nature that makes us blind and unaware of this knowledge. But this is just a claim. It is a claim no different than the tooth fairy, Santa Claus, etc. So how do you expect me or anyone else to take your word for it?

I am, however, a very open minded person. I am very open minded to what skeptics have to say and also to what believers in the afterlife, God, and the paranormal have to say. The only way to arrive at the truth is through an honest open minded mindset. That is the only right way to do it because any other way would be close minded/irrational.

Christians expect me to believe in the gospel after I have read it. Now that would be close minded to do so. Even if I felt God's presence in my life, that would also be close minded for me to just believe God is real because feelings do not dictate what is true and not true. Feelings are irrational and do not tell you what is true and not true.

I have read the gospel and I don't believe it because there are so many things out there to be open minded to besides just some story in a book of a holy man being crucified on the cross. We have all the claimed evidence out there that is claimed to support Christianity and we also have the claimed evidence on the skeptics' side as well.

I have researched online time and time again with an open mind towards skeptics who claim the paranormal/God evidence to be nonsense and towards believers who claim that the evidence is authentic and that the skeptics are talking nonsense. I see nothing more than an ongoing debate back and forth that just leads nowhere. It is no different than those philosophical debates that go on and on between sides of a debate, but lead to no conclusion.

The concept of God and life after death has been a topic debated by scientists and philosophers for ages. I just think it is a bit unrealistic here to expect me to dedicate my entire life into researching into virtually everything that has been debated for ages in order for me to come to the right conclusion when such a conclusion might not even exist. I have researched all I could and I just have to stop here. I have lost interest and I just have to remain undecided on the existence of God and the afterlife.

Also, just because many things seem to all add up to the existence of God and the afterlife and just because these things sound very compelling, that does not make it so. There are plenty of things that add up and sound very compelling to support any other claim out there, but that does not make that claim plausible or true. As a matter of fact, such claims have been proven false despite the fact that they sounded very compelling at the time.

Therefore, I cannot conclude that God and the afterlife exist on this basis either. In other words, you can present to me all the claimed evidence out there that makes a compelling case for Christianity, but that will not convince me either since I have a very open mind and I already realize that just because something sounds compelling does not make it so.

Lastly, many Christians would tell me that I am blinding myself from God's presence and that I am sinning by doing this open minded research. First off, this presupposes that Christianity is true to being with. How do you expect me to be convinced of that when I have already done all the research I could and am still not convinced? Secondly, doing open minded research is the only way to come to the right conclusion because all other ways are close minded/irrational.

So with all of this being said, if Christianity is true and the Christian God is real, then we are clearly talking an unfair God here. You can clearly see the predicament I am in and not only is it a hopeless predicament where there is no way to convince me God is real, but is also a completely understandable predicament that should be sympathized with. I see absolutely no reason at all to see such a predicament as being worthy of punishment in hell. To think so would be asinine, absurd, cruel, unfair, and daft.

Therefore, the only way God can be all loving and all just would be if I weren't to go to hell and that God would introduce himself to me after I die and give me the choice as to whether I want to serve him or not. I should not just automatically go to hell simply because I did not believe and did not dedicate my life to someone I did not believe existed in the first place.

Hell is only a place that is at the outer further extremities of the spiritual lands that had been made by creator, & there are many varying levels (spheres) within the spiritual lands.

Everyone is welcome in the first sphere of the spiritual lands, no matter how good, vile or evil they had been whilst in the flesh.
& you don't have to be a Christian to live in the spiritual spheres ever, & you do not have to pray to god either, a person will naturally understand that someone with emence power & love has given the potentiality for the creation of your life & the beautifully abundant spiritual lands that you would then find yourself residing in, & the more love & respect that you display in return to that person & others, well the more beautiful of soul you will become.

A very vile dark ex-human being (newly spiritual being) can be housed in relative privacy untill they have figured out their new surroundings and exactly why they had lived the life they did during their incarnate life. & can progress in a very positive way toward becoming a very loving person, & progress on & through the higher spheres of love.

Or they can turn away from change & the help given by persons with a higher more loving moral personality, but then they will find themselves not fitting in with the more loving people and of course their way of living, & will then move away from that life and location.

And turning away from all of that, is to turn away from the person that supplies the beautifully abundant spiritual lands... (CREATOR).

So they will find that the further away from creator they go in the spiritual lands of love, warmth & perpetual light, will only see them living in locations of less & less light, warmth & beauty.
They will find themselves living amongst varying kinds of unhappy unloving & grumpy nasty people, & the more a person treats "THEMSELVES/ (SOUL)" to acting un lovingly nasty acts, the more that THEY "THE SOUL BEING" becomes grumpy nasty & unloving by nature, & the harder it is to find the will to change & the further that they will spiral into unlovingnes & into the very depths of dark horrid cold locations WHICH RESEMBLE A LOCATION OF HELL.

When a person transitions from the earth life, & into the spiritual lands, a very vial newly arrival can indeed feel the emence love radiating from very loving beings who do desire to be of assistance to them, but there is one "very real" reason why a vial person might not feel the love & then turn away from the loving assistance offered them.....BUT I WONT GO INTO THAT IN THIS POST, BUT IF ANYONE WANTS TO KNOW, THEN I CAN POST ABOUT IT IN THIS TREAD IF ASKED.

Neil.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

I would like to speak on behalf of not only myself, but on the behalf of all other nonbelievers out there.

You do not speak for me.

Originally Posted by MattMVS7

First off, Christianity says that the law has been written in our hearts so that we instinctively know that God is real. I think this is nonsense. I have never felt God was real and have never considered the concept of a God until much later on when I stumbled upon the bible and Christianity. The same thing applies to people in other areas of the world who have never heard of a God...

Using an excuse to believe or not believe in God/Christianity/religion hardly seems like a good approach. Generally such an important thing is based on choice, reason, need, or perhaps indoctrination.

[Morpheus]

What did the Wachowski's do for you? They gave you an excuse for understanding, and believing. Researching both theoretical physics since Einstein, and the spiritual teachings.
The Dead Sea scrolls find in 1948 also confirm the dating of the books of the old testament, wherein the prophesies are written throughout, of the coming Messiah, and Savior.

Time, Space and related Gravity are the foundation of our reality, yet what does physics tell us today they are, since Einstein?

You SAY you are open minded. But...

[CrystalSong]

You are reading the Bible and understanding Christianity from your current level of frequency and understanding, which appears to be mostly resistance and close-mindedness. This is not a judgement but a recognition in myself from having been in a similar place with a similar response all through my 20's. So part of me resonates with where you are in your current beliefs and supports you. There is a time and place for everything.

However with time, healing, curiosity and evolution of consciousness how we read the Bible changes, we glean new meanings out of what we read. We're better able to separate the history from the parable and allegory. Both Edgar Casey and my Grandmother read the Bible once a year from cover to cover and said that every year new understanding, information and Truth unfolded to them as they themselves evolved to understand that which was hidden between the pages.

With serious study and contemplation one finds many passages of the Bible to be written in a type of code - for which the key to open is one's level of frequency or love quota.
Meaning it can not be comprehended until a certain evolutionary state of consciousness has been reached.

Forming an opinion is easy, one can do it with the most basic of neurons firing in the brain. Truly comprehending something and mining it for the hidden gold is a serious undertaking, the results of which bear far more fruit than the casual judgement based on precursory glancing.

I found taking a break from trying to believe and be 'Christian' was very helpful. I just went out and lived, experienced being 20 and human, being 30 and human.... and somewhere along the line this hunger set in, this deep need to know if there was more than met the eye to what I was perceiving as a 'run-of-the-mill human' existence.
This inquiry, now done from a place of curiosity, longing and deeply seeking the Hidden, lead to eventual incredible revelation and radical life change. Most unexpectedly!

So if you aren't 'feeling' it right now, just go live your life, follow your passion and joy, experience all that you can in your meat suit and if someday you find yourself wondering if there is a greater reality hidden that you can't see and you feel a deep hunger to Know what everything is all about and your part in it, then start Seeking again.
But don't seek from resistance, all you will find is irritation, frustration and go into rejection. Right now Higher Truths are for you as your one-line avatar name. Someday that too will have a very different meaning for you.

[crocodile]

Matt
It could be you got this mixed up with Allah - he's got some serious hell going.
Buddhists are into that too. Hindus just come again .