initiation process without a master/teacher.

[A peaceful mind.]

Hi all members of this wonderful Forum

My question to you all is: Why do some people start their initiation process without a master/teacher.

Usually some start it with the help from their teachers, this is the more common way, but my question is why do some start it without?

Yours

A peaceful Mind

[linen53]

Since I left the Christian church 30 years ago there hasn't been a teacher making him/herself known to me. So I've been on my own. Learning a little here and a little there. Reading alot and I come here quite a bit the past few years when I discovered this site.

[lemex]

My question to you all is: Why do some people start their initiation process without a master/teacher.

Usually some start it with the help from their teachers, this is the more common way,[/b] but my question is why do some start it without?

Some or most.... I think I know what you're saying but I can't be sure. Please clarify if you can. A little confusing saying some thing is common for some.

Really, how does one begin their "current" one, for some if not all. Where did it come from? I tend to lean to all more then some.

The journey has a start and not based on right/wrong, we had a clean slate, it is based on teaching which come to be accepted. It makes sense being taught in the now. You began with no knowledge. I think we are aware of this, teaching has boarders that seem to generally match a map of the world. I imagine there is such a map around. The map is all the some combined.

All systems have teachers that guide people. Teachers have power. In this is the limited stereotype, the concept of master/teacher. You believe you don't have a teacher teaching. We believe we only have teaching not teachers, take your pick. Formal teachings like religions have teachers. Think of this initiation process.

You have the 1st teaching. The "I" is already taught by teachers. You already had a teacher, you cannot say you don't. Teacher is a word.

I think the term mentor is important. It is as difficult these days to find a good mentor as a teacher, but, your odds just doubled. I also think if we look back, we passed them by. No problem, you will find what you need when your time is right for it.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by linen53

Since I left the Christian church 30 years ago there hasn't been a teacher making him/herself known to me. So I've been on my own. Learning a little here and a little there. Reading alot and I come here quite a bit the past few years when I discovered this site.

Clear, to the point, and honest. Ask, you will hear.

It's possible to self-initiate. Many 'official' initiations are allied to Orders/Societies but they can only get so far. The old Masonic Orders had 11 grades. The Chaoists have two; acolyte and initiate. In those situations they either tell you 'secrets' (insights, normally) or put you through certain tests. You discover 'secrets' for yourself especially if you're ready to experiment, contemplate, meditate, take courage and things.

Some things in life, such as the event that leads someone to be an adult woman or man is an initiation (if you assimilate it right); likewise breaking through into one's deeper mysteries can tell you things you'd never have known otherwise. If you work alone with focus and intent you will receive insights. Some are empowerments, some are initiations. To me, it's a sudden state you bring on yourself from which you can never turn back. You have gnosis of something, a sudden awareness/insight, that gives you deep knowledge of something about yourself and/or your relationship with the cosmos.

...

[Lucyan28]

Welcome to the club, lol

Maybe it's easier to have a master or guru, but the best teacher is within yourself.

Reading, analyzing, silence, intuition, meditation, praying, are the best tools that you can develop without the help of any teacher. You could find good guides all over the internet (and some guides not that good though), and find out the best techniques for you.

Of course you only need to practice.

And coming back to your question: "why do some start it without?"

Perhaps a spiritual teacher in this "new era" is not a single physical person, perhaps we are indeed learning from all the other creatures around us, so in this way even your pet (dog, cat) could be a teacher, because they taught us "to love without expectations", in other words "pure Love".

Even a movie or book could be our teacher, because we understand some messages/lessons from the director/author, another messages from the actors, etc. etc. etc.

Knowledge and lessons are all around us and inside of us: in the east, in the west, in the north, in the south ;)

[Heart]

Self mastery is the key, all other people are reflections of the master that resides within. even if you were to find a guru or enlightened person (out there) they will only show you the illusions we have placed over our own eyes (within) and then told to tread that path to self understanding... alone

[Starman]

I had a guru who introduced me to my inner teacher and without that external teacher it might have taken me longer to connect with my inner teacher; the initiation process which I went through with my external teacher, or guru, was a very humbling experience which prepared me to dive deeper within my own being.

That said, and as has been already mentioned, some go through a ritualistic initiation alone without a teacher, others may belong to a club or society which renders an oath, etc. as part of an initiation. Basically all spiritual initiations are not the same, and just because a person has been imitated does not mean that they will always adhere to the tenets of their initiation.

Initiation is a preparatory phase which one goes through to start them on their journey; and it is my perception that human life itself is an initiation into a larger reality; various nations have their own process, like children attending school, which they deem brings a person from darkness to light; even if such is only an education relative to this world or a particular culture. Spiritual initiation is suppose to give a person some aid for approaching the next world but some initiations are merely a rite of passage.

As has been said, self-mastery is key and if you have an external teacher there comes a time when you leave that teacher and become more aligned with your internal teacher. A lot of devotees of external teachers have a hard time letting go of that teacher, or they may think that their external teacher, or guru, is superior to them which is a misnomer as well; the teacher needs the students just as much as the students need the teacher. An external teacher can be of great help but an external teacher can also be of great hindrance.

[bees]

Originally Posted by A peaceful mind.

Hi all members of this wonderful Forum

My question to you all is: Why do some people start their initiation process without a master/teacher.

Usually some start it with the help from their teachers, this is the more common way, but my question is why do some start it without?

Yours

A peaceful Mind

My perspective is that people come to "spirituality" in all different ways. Some through suffering and darkness, others through inquiry and Light, many through a combination of both.

In Buddhism, we say the first step is the final step. It is the one who seeks which is the one which is sought.

It is a very fine business, fine in terms of subtlety and depth that may not be immediately obvious to a casual seeker.

The other point I would make is that 'spirituality' may mean different things for different people. For some it is just a religion, for others it is paranormal activities and ghosts and spirits, for others it is knowing how to get through the day.

My interpretation of spirituality is the highest order of transcendence. Transcendence of what? Of the mundane, the lower ego which controls most of humanity, of physical reality itself. I concur with anyone who finds Love at Source and Love as our basis.

There is something vastly beautiful in the potentialities of spirituality in my mind, and to my heart. I have been fortunate to see enough to know the truth of what many great Masters have taught: Rumi, Jesus, Buddha, others - although I fail at holding the same depths, and willingness perhaps..

Nevertheless, if we are in the same frame of mind as to what spirituality actually is - then I would say that anyone can start a spiritual path with or without a teacher. It takes a sincere mind, a gentle heart, meditation can help tremendously in ways that many practices cannot to clear the mind - help heal wounds - plumb the movements in the mind/body and spirit. There is more of course.

I would say the issue is when people cobhobble different theories from anywhere, I find most traditions have a way of teaching and use things in context in order to lead aspirants along a similar path - whether that is Yoga, Buddhism, Advaita etc. so it is often helpful to stay there until one has some familiarity with the wider lens of spirituality.

In regards to teachers, my personal experience is that if one is fortunate enough to meet a genuine teacher, one who has genuinely experienced the levels of transformation and realization that Holy Texts point to, it is an immense boon. Although having said, one also has to be open enough. A good teacher does not typically build reliance, but points students to themself. Having said that, some people are so mired in self-delusion that even Jesus or Buddha could not help them.

It is a good counter point to one's potential self-delusions that access and input to a teacher is valuable to any genuine aspirant. Those who fear them probably show more about themself than a teacher, and one seeking gold would be a fool to ignore the One who is already laughing at the end of the rainbow.

For each individual, seek what you find, and when you are stuck, seek a teacher, If you are honest and have plumbed depths, it is likely at some point you will want to seek a genuine Master. If you are fortunate enough or not to find him/her is a matter of karma.

My 2c.

[django]

I have yet to find a living teacher who has achieved what I want to achieve, though I feel such teachers have existed a couple of times in the past.

I believe all current teachers pass on their flawed and limited ways, and I am better off starting with a clean slate and finding the way myself, whilst reading the recorded words of the couple of teachers that have achieved what I would consider to be the true goal.