Am I think only one who thinks Lucifer is real?

Originally Posted by georgeTmaxwell

I think names and meaning change over the years so what people generally think now may not be what it was before. I also think you can use names and words as trends. Sick before meant unwell, now it can mean the opposite eg "fully sick" can be cool.

So my views are very different and are what I see in my realm. Satan is a misunderstood entity. He is not evil, he's simply the hot core of the earth that belief systems have used for fear. Eg if you are bad, you will be sent to the volcano.

Lucifer on the other hand is the Sun - the true morning star. He enjoys a similar fire to Satan and is the father of the solar system.

Both are not evil and we should thank them because without them, we don't exist.

@georgeTmaxwell
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I love this kind of thing because it cries out for a redefining, time to throw the old concepts out of the window. Metaphor become Truth, Truth becomes absolute. And the reflections of a Pagan origin........ :-)

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Why are they dark arts? Once upon a not so very long ago mediumship was seen as a dark art, and still is in certain places. A lady from the Bible belt of the USA once told me she was seen as a witch in her home town. In that instance the dark is (according yo my own beliefs) the lack of understanding. many years ago I read the Necrinomicon and some of Aleister Crowley. Rather than seeing it as 'black magic', what I saw was someone exploring the human mind and the monsters it can create. If we are going to strive to seek for the Light, perhaps we have to redefine our concepts of Light and Dark. Perhaps by doing that and releasing judgement we can banish the darkness by using your idea of going to the places we judge as dark. The places themselves aren't dark, the dark places are those that we have chosen not to shed Light on.

Agreed, it may be one thing to one person, but something completely different to another. I am not very good at explaining, you sum it up very well :)

Originally Posted by Greenslade

And how many more do that in this world? And not just leaders of countries but people you meet in everyday Life. It's an age-old story that is repeated many times over, as well as in history. Often it makes me wonder how far - as a Soul Group - we have really come. The same old scene played out over thousands of years, only the scale is different. However, if the Allies had chosen a different Path would Hitler have come to power? If there had not been a situation for him to manipulate perhaps he would have been a leader only in his own mind and nowhere else. But hey, the Allies were the good guys, right? If there is to be someone brought to book for the horrors of the Second World War, I don't believe Hitler should stand alone. Who gave him that opportunity and how did the opportunity arise?

I know that the Germans surrendered in WW1 - under circumstances that I am not sure off. But in regarding to Hitler, who was a solider in WW1, if the Germans didn't lose, Hitler's path may or may not have been different, just think if the Germans won. Anyway, no Hitler was not the only facist leader at that point of time, there was Mussolini in Italy and the Iron Guard in Romania (who in fact I believe where more cruel than the Nazi's towards anyone who wasn't not Romanian Orthodox). Hitler slowly came to power, his became popular in his party, then the party grew in popularity in the general population of Germany. As the German governement at the time, could not form a majority, Article 48 was imposed. Article 48 allowed the President at the time to use emergency powers, and establish a government with out it going through the cabinet. This happened in 1930 and between then and Jan 1933 - nothing much by a series of elections took place, and the popularity of Nazi party grew and grew. The President and Chancellor at the time grew wary of Hitler and the party - as they were aware of Hitlers ideas. They believed that if he was allowed to get some political leadership he would be more aware of being watched and his political powers would restricted. Basically what happened was that the Chancellor at the time offered Hitler to become his vice, that way Hitler was happy to have a key role, but he wouldn't be able to do anything disastrous. However, he declined - he wanted full power as Chancellor. Which somehow, he got in Jan 1933 (it surprised even Hitler's closest men), I am assuming that the Chancellor then and the president thought that they will still have a grip on Hitler. Unfortunately though, both men died the next year...and under Article 48, Hitler declared himself both President and Chancellor of Germany in 1934.

WHEW! Hope you got all that XD.

Originally Posted by Greenslade

As you say, "It all really depends on how you take it." And that is the whole point of the exercise. We choose our own limits of where we go and where we don't go. We out up barriers around ourselves and everything outside of those barriers is wrong. So many times I've seen that happen on these forums, and....... best left for now. We choose to see Light and Dark, we define what it is. It is us that gives it form and we make it real. We perpetuate what has come before, creating our own Universes from someone else's beliefs. I read somewhere that Abraham was a Pagan and the only reason that the three Abrahamic religions are monotheistic is because Abraham was insecure about losing his grip on the people. Why would people follow him and his God when there were so many others to choose from? Whether that is true or not, I don't know. Perhaps exponents of the Bible will chip and with their own beliefs on that one and choose to correct me. If that was the case then religious wars make even less sense.

Personally, I don't take it any way in particular. But then, I'm a rebel, grrrr :-) But it starts with us, right here right now. We have the power to choose, to choose whether or not we strive for power. To choose whether or not we strive to reach that Light or choose to realise that the Light is where we come from and one day we'll be back there. For me, Lucifer is not the king of good and bad nor the king of darkness but Lucifer is the name given to those energies that we use to place barriers around ourselves to keep out the Light. Lucifer didn't put us in those dark places, we did. And while we're praying to God to get us out of it, we're not seeing that We are the Ones we have been waiting for.

Perhaps the 'Universal Rainbow' should be redefined. The infra-red band should be called the 'Luciferian Band', the visible spectrum should be called 'Human Band' and the ultra-violet should be the 'God Band'. Or perhaps, in the interests of True Enlightenment it all should just be called 'The Light'. If there is a Darkness, it's the place where The Light hasn't penetrated.

I like that :)

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Thank you. However, it doesn't need such a leap in the thinking, it just needs a little tweak :-)

When I speak of that leap I am talking at the quantum tweak that level of thought for which there is no bridge, being so focused unable to stop and interrupt the thought to pause and see and even act differently. Don't underestimate the difficulty trying to change or even modify my thought as it travels. Your information helped me clarify with this single idea to crystallizes ideas I could not connect with before and hence brought them together unifying then. The single idea is the most difficult. You would be surprised at my thought now.... We can provide information and be guides to. What you call simple was a void or barrier to my thought which I could not reach it was just that far. None the less I remain appreciative. Tweak, leap, or barrier..... they are just words.

Originally Posted by lemex

When I speak of that leap I am talking at the quantum tweak that level of thought for which there is no bridge, being so focused unable to stop and interrupt the thought to pause and see and even act differently. Don't underestimate the difficulty trying to change or even modify my thought as it travels. Your information helped me clarify with this single idea to crystallizes ideas I could not connect with before and hence brought them together unifying then. The single idea is the most difficult. You would be surprised at my thought now.... We can provide information and be guides to. What you call simple was a void or barrier to my thought which I could not reach it was just that far. None the less I remain appreciative. Tweak, leap, or barrier..... they are just words.

Sounds like you have your scary head on there I do understand where you are coming from, and one's tweak is another's leap. It's all to the good, and often all we need is that one single key to bring the rest crashing into place. If that's the only thing that came from the blisters of bashing away at the keyboard on this thread, then it was worth it. What comes round goes round, Lemex, and so the energy flows.

I bow to your knowledge, Angel. Perhaps the history of Hitler is a dark place that few will go, but looking at your words I wonder if there is a Light that can be shed beyond judgement. By the sound of it, Hitler's rise to power was meant to be. How many more people can that be said of? Just because Hitler is seen as the epitome of evil it doesn't mean that it can't happen to him too. And while we can sit here in a safe environment and spout forth as much Spirituality as we like, there's no getting away from the fact that we're still human after all. Would any of us who take such an objective and Spiritual view of war if we were involved in it? I doubt very much I would, but then I'm not Gandhi. We could argue the rights and wrongs until the cows come home from the fields, but it seems the Universe wanted him there after all. After that, all we have is our own perspectives.

What I have never understood is that they say God is omnipotent, God is all and everything - except for that which we judge as bad. We base our beliefs on teaching that has been mistranslated and generally played around with for at least two thousand years. That isn't to say it should all be thrown away because many people still find pearls of wisdom in there, but what we should be doing is refining those beliefs and bringing them into this century at least. Surely in two thousand years our understanding has moved on. Or has it really?