initiation process without a master/teacher.

[bees]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

This is very important bees.
I mean, to find someone that has what you want.
And then can help you , guide you, to your Goal.


Very special relationship.

Yes...I agree, Miss Hepburn.

I have a few thoughts

1. How fortunate we are, those who have found it in our lives. How blessed, how incredibly fortunate.

2. I sympathize with doubt, with the fear of being duped. There are such people - I see a few over in the Buddhist forum. Good talkers.

3. As I read django's post, it revealed more of his mindset. How does the intellect identify the golden rainbow, that which is indivisbly of Spirit? Of God? Of Love? Intellect cannot do that and its own suspicions only hold it closer within itself, and away from the potentialities of True Love. Yet there is always Grace that is possible, if one is so fortunate.

I posted this video below in another thread. It speaks to a teacher/student relationship and one who probably saw that his teacher's very imperfections were just another treasure for his growth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJuJQI0RMiw

I remember when I first started "exploring" spirituality - I had a few amazing experiences - I was also .. careful. But I came into the Zen tradition of Buddhism and there is some focus there on sitting, meditation, that can help. One is looking at one's own doubts, and knows them for what they are. It is not eternally used as a shield against a world which is indivisible from oneself. It is not misaligned with discernment - of which is absolutely essential in one's life, but that discernment is based on wisdom and not ignorance, one hopes, and that is certainly the direction of this practice that I know of.

Additionally, as much theory as I had learnt, and as much practical insights and openings I continued to be blessed with, I could not bridge some gap...and although I worked with teachers, I could not give my heart fully away until I met my .. teacher.

I cannot speak of his Light because no words capture his Love, his eminence and his deep embodiment of a spiritual consciousness that literally changed people around him - something I would not have known existed, had I not worked with him.

Those blessings, Miss Hepburn, .. of course it is sad when another cannot not only fathom such a thing, but uses their intellect to discern what intellect cannot reach.

But as I am blessed, and you are blessed, perhaps there will be many more..

I do not know but we can hope.

bees.

[Völvawitch]

I prefer to walk my path alone and learn everything myself.

Beside, I don't like being around other people so that is the biggest reason why I want to remain alone and learn it myself.

Of cours it would be good to learn things about meditation, yoga and other spirituality from a teacher but I just can't be around other people for a long while.

[FairyCrystal]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

That was a very sad sentence for me to read...
and I do not feel 'sad' often.

Maybe I should have not posted this...but it effected me.

Oww... (((Miss Hepburn)))
I personally don't think anyone should be looking for a teacher who has achieved what you want to achieve. You should be looking for teachers who can add to what you want to achieve. Everyone is unique, so why should there be someone who's doing exactly what you want to do? That's basically looking for a clone.
There is not just one teacher to get us where our Soul wants us to go. It takes several teachers, and each and everyone will add their own unique valuable gift to our path.
In that sense such a statement could be a bit sad because it means someone is looking / thinking along the 'wrong' tracks. But then, there is no right and wrong in walking our paths. Just shorter and longer paths. Everything is part of learning and growing.

[FairyCrystal]

I've done both workshops, courses and 1 on 1 during apprenticeship with a hedgewitch.
I was never keen on groups (workshops and courses) but have learnt that groups can feel really good, like a warm embrace, no judgement. Unison yet keeping your individuality. And also, because of group energy you can go much faster and higher than on your own. Far easier to raise energy in/with a group.

I've done various things, like the hedgewitchcraft, intuitive development, crystal workshops, dowsing, Tibetan Lightwork and others. I take what I need from everything, forget and/or dump the rest, and thus end up with my own unique mix of things.
I'm not specialized in anything, don't want that either. I want to have a broad perspective.
When I need a teacher, I find one, other things I do on my own.

[django]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

That was a very sad sentence for me to read...
and I do not feel 'sad' often.

Maybe I should have not posted this...but it effected me.

I'm glad you posted it, and maybe this will cheer you up... there have been several people who have taught me things I never could have known by myself, who have given me incredible gifts and messages, and these people may be called my teachers I guess, though I don't think of them as teachers, more as special people who have come along and shared special things with me, as I have shared with them and others. For myself I think it's the people who set themselves up as 'teachers' that I am more wary of.

[cc111me]

The Universe can be your teacher and there is so much information available these days to make it easier!

[Liliel]

I think that many people can be teachers for us even if they don't know it and even if they have never heard or used the term "spirituality". I can kind of point at the person who told me about stuff that started my conscioss spiritual journey, but it was just the universe's answer to my curiosity and philosophical questions which I've had "inbuilt" in me since i remember. But it was never like he was my official teacher. He gifted me a book-Louise Hay's "You can heal your life" and it was a breakthrough. So I could call it a symbolic moment. But since that time some random or not random words of other people were like signs to me. I have encountered so much info I needed on stuff that was important at particular times in my life that it's even impossible to count it. It were books, articles, events, some youtube videos with different "gurus". I never really looked forward to be like someone, I rather have looked to get to some state of mind and wanted to use hints of others who seemed to have reached it. I think that in my case it was the strong will to become aware of something that put into motion many events, so the people and things that were my teachers weren't the reason just the result of this will. :)

[keokutah]

Originally Posted by A peaceful mind.

Hi all members of this wonderful Forum

My question to you all is: Why do some people start their initiation process without a master/teacher.

Usually some start it with the help from their teachers, this is the more common way, but my question is why do some start it without?

Yours

A peaceful Mind

I don't know what an initiation process is, can anyone explain?

In my native culture there's elders and medicine men. My mentor was a bad, bad medicine man. I'm not saying he was a fake, he just became evil and egotistical, and that is a very huge problem throughout the native communities.
The guy was so incredibly powerful though and had a real gift, I witnessed his magic and firetended for his sweatlodges, it was authentic. But he became sick in his spirit and used his power in bad ways. He tried to steal my power. I guess in new age terms the closest thing to what he did to me was a psychic attack. But what he actually did was trick me during a spiritual ceremony, saying he needed to place my spirit in his circle for protection, and he asked my permission, and being naive and gullible and trusting him, I gave him permission to own my spirit. That's literally what happened. And whatever weird ritual he did, created a really intense connection between us, where he said that he would always be attached to me so he could look over me. I eventually broke that attachment by the way.
But before that, I began surpassing him in terms of spiritual ability and prowess. He liked me when I was just a naive boy he could take under his wing, but he grew to despise me as soon as I started to become more spiritual, and the thing is, he actually helped that process. That's what he originally wanted. And my awakening process happened SO fast and I don't think he was expecting that. Things got very tense between us, and I decided to move on because I came to rely more on my own spirituality instead, and that's when he spiritually attacked me. And it was so bad because I had once given him that power over me.
It took me a few years to learn how to take back my power after that, and never once have made that mistake again, never will. Never give your power to any mentor, no matter what they say!

I think mentors are good though. I still to this day, love him, despite how much he harmed me, and I just saw him awhile back and he looks like a cancer patient, he's not doing well all the years of practicing bad medicine caught up to him, and that's really saddening to me because I've always hoped that he would come through his badness... you know? He's probably one of the most powerful spiritually gifted men I have ever met, so I thought he would have the strength to overcome his ego.
But his ego is killing him. I will always be there for him if he ever does decide to change. I don't know what exactly made him go down the wrong path, but I think when we first met he was a good guy, with good intentions.
There will always be a place in my heart for him though, the relationship between a mentor and a student is just so sacred. I have not been mentored ever since, I shouldn't say that, because my spirit guide mentors me on a regular basis. But when it comes to humans, I've been relying on my own spirituality, but I have to admit, that he was a huge role in how my spirituality came to blossom and I'll always remember him as my teacher, he was also like a father figure to me.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by A peaceful mind.

Hi all members of this wonderful Forum

My question to you all is: Why do some people start their initiation process without a master/teacher.

Usually some start it with the help from their teachers, this is the more common way, but my question is why do some start it without?

Yours

A peaceful Mind

It is different for every case and the paths we choose to follow.

Certain paths just don't have enough teachers, or you follow a school of thought and philosophy so ancient, the only one who could have initiated you into it died in about 500BC.

Then, one may live in a different part of the world and cannot afford to travel to where all the 'teachers' are - even if I just need to go to Bali to find one...then I have to stay there for a year or so to study under him..

So, I initiate myself and I know how to do it.

[Shivani Devi]

I really don't know - I've thought a lot....

If a teacher/Guru is bona fide (and who is to judge it?) they will usually have a lot of followers and staff hanging around...you can't get close to your Guru and you can't receive a personalised/individuised experience - you are just another disciple in a sea of them.

I'm not really a 'guru person' either, even though I have been attached to and associated with many in the past, living and not...but there are only certain teachers out there...and it's not a case of whether they are 'fake or not' but whether they really exist or not....things have changed since before.

Still, I need formal initiation - I need to take up monastic life now, so I have no choice but to perform a ceremony/ritual myself with God as witness. I will find a way to 'formalise it to the world' later, but it's very important I do this now...take all the vows and marry God.