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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #11  
Old 17-01-2021, 06:31 PM
eputkonen eputkonen is offline
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Suffering is far more simple. Suffering arises due to ignorance. Suffering is self-created and self-inflicted in ignorance and misunderstanding.

While suffering, by and large, ceases when the illusion of "me" shatters...suffering really does not cease by the belief that All is 'Itself' (One), and the capacity to resonate with, have faith, or trust in, that belief. It is not about belief, but profound, direct understanding. Understanding arises when you see...like when people say, "oh, I see." So look deeply at suffering (and the roots and sources of suffering) and understand it. Better yet, look deeply at the "me" and understand it.
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  #12  
Old 24-01-2021, 02:57 AM
FallingLeaves FallingLeaves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eputkonen
Suffering is far more simple. Suffering arises due to ignorance. Suffering is self-created and self-inflicted in ignorance and misunderstanding.

While suffering, by and large, ceases when the illusion of "me" shatters...suffering really does not cease by the belief that All is 'Itself' (One), and the capacity to resonate with, have faith, or trust in, that belief. It is not about belief, but profound, direct understanding. Understanding arises when you see...like when people say, "oh, I see." So look deeply at suffering (and the roots and sources of suffering) and understand it. Better yet, look deeply at the "me" and understand it.

second time I've heard this today... I'll say again there are examples for example job and the guy in isaiah, both were righteous in their own right and yet through no fault of their own a great deal of suffering was brought down on them. And doubtless there have been countless others in the same boat. So to dismissively say to someone 'your fate is all your own fault' is quite mean.
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  #13  
Old 24-01-2021, 07:49 AM
JustASimpleGuy JustASimpleGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallingLeaves
second time I've heard this today... I'll say again there are examples for example job and the guy in isaiah, both were righteous in their own right and yet through no fault of their own a great deal of suffering was brought down on them. And doubtless there have been countless others in the same boat. So to dismissively say to someone 'your fate is all your own fault' is quite mean.

I believe that was a statement about second arrow suffering. https://mindfulnessmeditation.net.au/arrow/

The parable of the second arrow is a well-known Buddhist story about dealing with suffering more skilfully. It is said the Buddha once asked a student,

‘If a person is struck by an arrow, is it painful? If the person is struck by a second arrow, is it even more painful?’

He then went on to explain,

‘In life, we can’t always control the first arrow. However, the second arrow is our reaction to the first. This second arrow is optional.’



Pain Is Inevitable; Suffering Is Optional https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...ng-is-optional

“Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” —Viktor Frankl

His ability to retain that degree of psycho-spiritual autonomy in the most horrific circumstances imaginable provides a remarkable example of intrapersonal strength, grace under extreme duress, the power of personal choice, and the Serenity Prayer in action.
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  #14  
Old 24-01-2021, 06:35 PM
Starman Starman is offline
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What suffers? Is it the mind, body, something else, or all that we are? I view suffering as germane to having a body. I have heard people talk about pain deep in their soul, and while there may be incongruence that takes place deep within us, I do not feel such vacancies are visited upon the greater one-ness of being.

Most suffering is either physical, mental, or emotional. Suffering often involves pain and it is my experience that our soul, or deeper being, is inextricably made of a fabric that is rich and sweet, exuding only love. I do not feel that pure being which is within me, which is untouched by this world, is capable of experiencing pain.

Pain and suffering is transitory; it is about impeded motion, or difficult transitions. The physical body, our mind and emotions, are in constant transition, going through a process that resembles the normal curve. My deeper being exists in non-duality where transitions between opposite poles do not exist. A person can transcend their suffering if they have developed their consciousness to do such. Also a person who is suffering often finds peace from suffering when they sleep; if suffering were part of our eternal nature we would not be able to escape it.
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  #15  
Old 19-03-2021, 02:40 PM
Mak6831 Mak6831 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There is no way that I am aware to establish whether the manifestation is infinate, but consider for a moment that if it is, then it is never why does this or that appear, but it must appear otherwise the manifestation would not be infinate! If the manifestation is not infinate then there may be a different reason for suffering. There is speculation that it has some purpose or meaning, which must also appear in an infinate manifestation.

Applicable to both is the assertion that manifestation is held in place/maintained by Oneness as an automatic infinate balancing system, (symbolised by the Yin/Yang symbol) which balance may not be apparent 'locally'. With the infinate version there must be suffering so we dont have to work out other reasons why it might happen.

Also Oneness seems to have manifested something we call realization, that at least ends the suffering of feeling disconnected/separate, even though appearing as apparently many separate things. This seems to have been done by manifesting the belief that All is 'Itself' (One), and the capacity to resonate with, have faith, or trust in, that belief,
or some practise.

Could you explain why you think there would be a different reason for suffering if manifestation was not infinite?

Manifestation is held in place/maintained by oneness. Not only that, oneness completely permeates and saturates manifestation because oneness is infinite. If you say manifestation is absent of oneness, then oneness is no longer infinite as it does not occupy manifestation. This would mean the manifestation is phenomenological and separate. If oneness completely saturates and permeates manifestation entirely, you could make the case that manifestation IS oneness, or manifestion is oneness appearing as manifestation

And then finally Realisation is not a manifestation. it is merely the dropping of the illusion of manifestion, realising that manifestion does not and never did exist in the way the seperate sense of self believes it to be. So in a way realisation does not exist because there was no phenomological event, it could actually be the opposite of a phenomonological event as it transcends duality, it is not linked in the causal chain that we consider to be duality

Im welcome for an alternative view as this is not a felt experience for me, atleast not right now, but it has made sense previously but unfortunately ego asserts itself lool

Last edited by Mak6831 : 19-03-2021 at 05:29 PM.
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  #16  
Old 19-03-2021, 06:31 PM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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On another forum, somebody just linked to a video, where Nisargadatta Maharaj was quoted:
02:24 you're not experiencing suffering
02:27 you are suffering you're experiencing
02:30 which means
02:31 that there's nothing called suffering
02:38 a suffering is about an attitude in
02:40 which you meet things
02:42 it is not something that exists in
02:44 itself you cannot show a sample of
02:46 suffering
02:46 it is a state in which you are meeting
02:48 your life what he did by answering in
02:51 that way
02:51 is he gave back the power to you to say
02:54 no
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #17  
Old 25-03-2021, 01:24 AM
utopiandreamchild utopiandreamchild is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There is no way that I am aware to establish whether the manifestation is infinate, but consider for a moment that if it is, then it is never why does this or that appear, but it must appear otherwise the manifestation would not be infinate! If the manifestation is not infinate then there may be a different reason for suffering. There is speculation that it has some purpose or meaning, which must also appear in an infinate manifestation.

Applicable to both is the assertion that manifestation is held in place/maintained by Oneness as an automatic infinate balancing system, (symbolised by the Yin/Yang symbol) which balance may not be apparent 'locally'. With the infinate version there must be suffering so we dont have to work out other reasons why it might happen.

Also Oneness seems to have manifested something we call realization, that at least ends the suffering of feeling disconnected/separate, even though appearing as apparently many separate things. This seems to have been done by manifesting the belief that All is 'Itself' (One), and the capacity to resonate with, have faith, or trust in, that belief,
or some practise.


Suffering is caused by negative energies. Amen
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  #18  
Old 25-03-2021, 02:37 AM
hallow hallow is offline
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Location: Over there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamit
There is no way that I am aware to establish whether the manifestation is infinate, but consider for a moment that if it is, then it is never why does this or that appear, but it must appear otherwise the manifestation would not be infinate! If the manifestation is not infinate then there may be a different reason for suffering. There is speculation that it has some purpose or meaning, which must also appear in an infinate manifestation.

Applicable to both is the assertion that manifestation is held in place/maintained by Oneness as an automatic infinate balancing system, (symbolised by the Yin/Yang symbol) which balance may not be apparent 'locally'. With the infinate version there must be suffering so we dont have to work out other reasons why it might happen.

Also Oneness seems to have manifested something we call realization, that at least ends the suffering of feeling disconnected/separate, even though appearing as apparently many separate things. This seems to have been done by manifesting the belief that All is 'Itself' (One), and the capacity to resonate with, have faith, or trust in, that belief,
or some practise.
. If you work out the reasons why you're suffering you will find a solution to the suffering and hopefully suffer no more. THEN you will become one with self and not one with suffering. Becoming one with self is difficult but the reward is priceless.
The short story of the "elephant rope" is a very good read that I would recommend for anyone.https://steemit.com/motivational/@da...nt-rope-belief
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  #19  
Old 25-03-2021, 04:15 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Location: Golden Bay, New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mak6831
And then finally Realisation is not a manifestation. it is merely the dropping of the illusion of manifestion, realising that manifestion does not and never did exist in the way the seperate sense of self believes it to be. So in a way realisation does not exist because there was no phenomological event, it could actually be the opposite of a phenomonological event as it transcends duality, it is not linked in the causal chain that we consider to be duality

Im welcome for an alternative view as this is not a felt experience for me, atleast not right now, but it has made sense previously but unfortunately ego asserts itself lool

An alternative view is that realisation does exist and is experienced as an actual event at a particular moment in time.

If we only know duality then all concepts of Oneness are just ideas in our head. Whatever reality we experience is based in duality.

The realisation of Oneness is more than just the dropping of the illusion of manifestation. It is a complete surrender, and at the moment of surrender we enter a state of pure emptiness. We then discover that this emptiness pervades all manifestation, without limitation, and this emptiness is our true nature. This emptiness is also fullness, because nothing can be added to it and nothing can be taken away from it.

This emptiness is experienced as an unchanging state of one thing everywhere. Before the moment of realisation this emptiness is unknown to us in our limited forms. After the moment of realisation this emptiness is our daily ever-present reality.

Just an alternative view.

Peace
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  #20  
Old 25-03-2021, 04:44 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
This emptiness is also fullness, because nothing can be added to it and nothing can be taken away from it.

A koan!
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