Why does God not show him/her/itself?

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Busby

davidsun, hello.
You yourself used the word 'dense' to describe your argument(s) here on SF. By the time one has mentally fought through all the possible twists and turns implicit in your message it is very often necessary to start again after getting lost in the maze.
We were talking about the NDE of Rich Kelley and my point was that I can identify myself with his understanding of what he experienced.
My own experiences, call them; mystical, paranormal, spiritual, fifth- dimensional or whatever, are all I have to go on to answer those questions to which I seek an answer. In this case (my case) they suffice. I don't need a Bible or any other collection of descriptive mental pictures to lean on. I'm not being arrogant here, in my old age I can look back and say I have been very lucky - although I still look upon these moments in astonishment as being, well, 'out of this world'.
Obviously I look and always have done for confirmation of what I have been (in a very small way) given to understand. This confirmation has often appeared on the horizon in various dresses but without an intruding bang.
So, I say, that each of us has at least the semblance of a solution when we awaken each morning into a 'new' universe. We, each of us, isn't in the universe, we are the universe.

Each of us adds, in the way we find right, to the universe experiencing itself.

My mind and spirit grooved right along with everything you wrote in your mini--bible ('bible' = 'book') here, Busby ...

... except they both 'balked' when I came to "We, each of us, isn't in the universe, we are [?] the universe.."

My 'thought' and 'sense' is that this statement is both an illogical conclusion and preposterous claim.

This is where consideration of other people's conclusions (wherever they may have been recorded) provide contrasting conclusions to check one's own conclusions against. This one happens to be from The Bible: "In 'him' we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28)

Not that others conclusions might not also be preposterous and illogical, mind you! One has to very logical (and therefore selective) before deciding what one 'assents' to. Establishing intersubjective concurrence is not a 'simple' process, just as building any 'house' that can accommodate more than one person is.

All of the above offered as my subjective opinion for your subjective consideration and 'judgment' as to its logicality and meaning-full-ness to you of course.

[Baile]

Every soul is the Living Stream. Together, all souls are the Living Stream. These thoughts of mine, and the words I’m typing, and the iPhone I’m using, are the Living Stream. Everything is of, and is, the Living Stream. Nothing exists that is not the Living Stream. Bailey Boy logic hehe!

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Busby

We [...] are the universe

Yes.

This is Oneness.

Logic may also provide this conclusion as long as duality isn't the originating premise.
Even an enhanced or refined duality is still duality.

In Oneness the 'logic' is that it necessarily includes everything because everything is everything.

That is pure logic even if dualistic thinking finds it irrational!

More logic:
Therefore, per the OP, God is always showing Him/Her Self since there is nothing else in, of, with, through, and for that Oneness.
And we are THAT, we just don't realize it (or see it)...or reason* it.

*For instance as reasoned by dualistic thinking, the false premise is that duality is presumed to be "essential" when really it is conditional, not essential.
That "dualism is essential" is the incorrect premise resulting in false conclusion (even if reasoned flawlessly) which is itself based in dualistic thinking, which is in turn based in that conditionality!

Whereas what is essential is by Nature UNCONDITIONAL.

~ J

[Baile]

One way to see life: “Oh I get it, the Living Stream moves in you in such a way that you say the Universe is every soul! Fascinating manifestation of Living Stream inspiration. Different from what the Living Stream shows me, interesting! Let’s compare notes!”

Less arguments, fewer wars and disasters, a cornucopia of joy and love for each soul on this fragile planet.

How is our presence not a part of the universe?

Even when we are physically no longer there, our presence, once manifest, cannot ever be undone - it echoes through the future into eternity. So also does it echo into the past, in all those moments that lead to our manifestation in an unbroken chain throughout time and space.

We are inseparable from the universe, and the universe is quite literally inseparable from us. We are the universe.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Yes.

This is Oneness.

Logic may also provide this conclusion as long as duality isn't the original premise! Even an enhanced or refined duality is still duality.



~ J

This may be 'true' insofar as your 'vision' goes. There are those, like me, who 'see' that 'duality' is an essential aspect of 'oneness', however. Without real duality - i.e. without there really being more than one aspect of/to Life - 'oneness' would be a meaningless concept and experience.

IOW, what you think of as being 'oneness', J, is a self-contradictory (nonsensical when followed to its logical conclusion) idea in my view.

I think that 'Non-Duality', like 'Non-Being' (self-extinction[?]), is basically just an 'imaginary' wish-fulfilling(?) proposition/myth, IOW. There is only the 'self' (of greater or lesser Beings) and 'self' is necessarily 'dualistic'. See http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...0&postcount=93 for the logic that leads me to this realization.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Baile

Every soul is the Living Stream. Together, all souls are the Living Stream. These thoughts of mine, and the words I’m typing, and the iPhone I’m using, are the Living Stream. Everything is of, and is, the Living Stream. Nothing exists that is not the Living Stream. Bailey Boy logic hehe!

He's back - Woohoo!

[ThatMan]

I've learnt that God reveals Himself in a very intimate way to all people, some see His signs and some don't, it's just a matter of perception, if you are open for such things, you may experience God in this very life, otherwise you may simply overlook them and God is nowhere to be found.

God is in the rain...

[lemex]

I think there is a misunderstanding about universe.

We are inseparable from the universe, and the universe is quite literally inseparable from us. We are the universe.

I agree and it should be seen in that light. All that is is consciousness. Consciousness is the source. Everything is because of consciousness. Universe is simply a form that is equal in concept to us.

So what is universe then, imo it serves a purpose quite simply. It allows us to be here and even shapes experience or makes experience. Form is the filter of experience which we should be aware of. So it isn't universe that experiences but consciousness experiencing that is the experience of the form, certainly not unlimited but limited. It is energy.

Universe exists at the same time. Universe is a form. Universe is not separate from consciousness. If there were no universe there would still be consciousness. Consciousness is universal and has many forms where universe is a form that is part of consciousness.

Nothing is independent of consciousness not even universe.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Kioma

We are inseparable from the universe, and the universe is quite literally inseparable from us. We are the universe.

As a matter of LOGIC, "We are inseparable from the universe, and the universe is quite literally inseparable from us." does NOT support/justify the conclusion that "We are the universe."

Just as saying "My brain is an inseparable part of my body's life and my body's life is inseparable from my brain" doesn't mean "my brain is my body."

I hope you will see fit to come 'forward' in this regard, Kioma. It is best that we all raise out 'standards' in terms of what does and doesn't constitute the 'mindful' use of logic. I suggest that 'sloppy' thinking not be given any more 'free rides' in the 'name' of 'unconditional' love here.