Karma and Reincarnation-Skeptic

Simon's article thread inspired me to write this as the author talked about Karma. And I'm not so sure about it.

I am going to use base, simplistic word forms because I am not feeling elaborate today. Here's why I don't know if I believe in Karma:

1. Being the good guy does not guarantee a positive outcome. (The good guy always finishes last.)

2. Bad things happen to good people

3. Good things happen to bad people

4. If we are spontaneous Astral Travellers, were we very bad in our last lives that we are having to speed heal through the vehicle of the Astral to quickly straighten this life out and try to straighten out our Karma? So in effect, AP'ers aren't spiritually advanced but quite the opposite?

5. On rein-carnation-If I was bad in another life I will be poor and ugly in this one. Why bother trying to get ahead? My lot has been cast. May as well wait for the next life and not bother too much with this one. I'm just going to be re-born anyway. Hence one reason India is so impoverished.

6. If I was good in another life I will be beautiful and rich in this one like the 'good girls'... Britney Speers and Paris Hilton. Are they what I have to look forward to being?

7. If a child is raped they must have done something bad in a past life and deserved it. Pretty darn unforgiving-this Karma thing.

Is life really a series of tit-for-tat? What about totality and wholeness? Is Karma just a thing invented by humans to keep them in line...another fear tactic created by mass religion to control the masses? Why should I believe in re-incarnation if time doesn't exist and the only moment is now?

Your thoughts as always...greatly appreciated.

[Chrysaetos]

It's based on the morals of humans living in a specific culture and climate > the tropical subcontinent called India.
Their climate, culture, and caste-based system has formed their ideas about good and evil. All the rest is just a result of globalisation.

We humans like to see a meaning behind everything which is why we like to think our personal ethics are universal morals. If we feel bad or good about something, we want to think it is universal as it enhances our belief system. Some personal ethics become more powerful through the hands of influential people and royalties. Hey, if they say it, it must be true. Over time, many people from a whole civilisation will very much believe the same things, and their experiences are interpreted accordingly.

The problem with karma is also that it gives no cause. It's an endless maze without origin. It basically tells you that all creatures have always been sinful, for no reason. The religions have a very negative view on life, nature, pleasures, senses.. almost everything, but no explanation is given why things exists as they are.

And probably, there is no explanation because we humans, with our brains that seek patterns, often find patterns that aren't related. We are cats chasing our own tails.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by windwhistle

Simon's article thread inspired me to write this as the author talked about Karma. And I'm not so sure about it.

I am going to use base, simplistic word forms because I am not feeling elaborate today. Here's why I don't know if I believe in Karma:

1. Being the good guy does not guarantee a positive outcome. (The good guy always finishes last.)

2. Bad things happen to good people

3. Good things happen to bad people

4. If we are spontaneous Astral Travellers, were we very bad in our last lives that we are having to speed heal through the vehicle of the Astral to quickly straighten this life out and try to straighten out our Karma? So in effect, AP'ers aren't spiritually advanced but quite the opposite?

5. On rein-carnation-If I was bad in another life I will be poor and ugly in this one. Why bother trying to get ahead? My lot has been cast. May as well wait for the next life and not bother too much with this one. I'm just going to be re-born anyway. Hence one reason India is so impoverished.

6. If I was good in another life I will be beautiful and rich in this one like the 'good girls'... Britney Speers and Paris Hilton. Are they what I have to look forward to being?

7. If a child is raped they must have done something bad in a past life and deserved it. Pretty darn unforgiving-this Karma thing.

Is life really a series of tit-for-tat? What about totality and wholeness? Is Karma just a thing invented by humans to keep them in line...another fear tactic created by mass religion to control the masses? Why should I believe in re-incarnation if time doesn't exist and the only moment is now?

Your thoughts as always...greatly appreciated.

1...not necessarily, it sort of depends on how you define those terms, generally speaking, the way i see it, a "good" karma may manifest itself as a hard situation, apparent bad luck, but over time a particular lesson can be learned, that completely changes one's point of view for all time , which also changes just how bad that experience really was, and in many cases, one may find them well worth the effort, even if they were unpleasant to go through, and the "rewards" of the new view on life are great when realized....
2.sometimes they do, as a test of sorts, it would take a great strength to be able to face own's own bad judgments, and be responsible for them all, whgich is the whole point of karma
3.many times they seem to, but are these also tests? think about it...
4.all terms are general in this sense, one could also look at APers in a different sense, that they arent all that advanced because they dont seem to have gone beyond the AP, and there is much much more experience to be had, but these judgments are all mental, so whats the difference, we're all here because there are things we could stand to learn, judging by the lack of perfection one sees everywhere, so why not just work on your own, and advance in a way/at a rate, you feel comfortable with?
5.poor and ugly are only 2 ways in which one could pay a karma, but there is no such limit, some ways can be far worse than poor and ugly, it all depends on the point of view one has when looking at it...
6.are britney spears and paris hilton really the "good girls"???i dont see any reason myself that anyone would think that's what they have to look forward to being...the point of karma is to work it ALL off, not create more daily, and thus be free of reincarnation, the results of karma arent the reward or reason for advancing with it...
7.in some cases what you say might be true, but hardly in all....sometimes people take negative actions for bad reasons and do things to others all on their own, having nothing to do with a piece of past life karma of the little girl...

the only moment might be now, but that doesnt remove time from existing, and doesnt at all help one to gain an understanding of the view from tat point of view beyond time,space and karma, that understanding still has to be worked for, whether you believe in karma or not...

I personally, have yet to see any basis for this Karma thingy to influence my life or actions. I believe it was just another way to keep the masses in tow.

Actions of good or bad are in the eye of the beholder. Environmental influences can determine social acceptability of a person.
If everyone around you are head-hunters it is perfectly acceptable to one to be one also, and enjoy the social acceptance that accompanies the act.

Nature, which was supposedly here before man, has actions which seem cruel to our society. The wolf kills and eats the rabbit, is it wrong? No. Is it hard to watch? Yes.

Somewhere common sense must come into play. You pet a rabid dog, he will bite you and give you rabies. Fact!

I believe the common gain is when we try to do that which we believe correct, under the circumstances, when we can.
Try to learn from the proven successes of others and pray to the spirits for guidance and patience.

I have never seen a particular belief or organization that was absolutely perfect in every way; for everyone.
I think good advice is to study as much as you can, take those suggestions that are helpful and pertain to you, and experiment with all that is.

Have a great day, you owe it to yourself!!!

[Miss Hepburn]

Story:

Student is walking with his teacher:

Student: I don't understand why the bad man of the village just found 3 gold coins.
And why did the good man of the village just get robbed?

Teacher: Not all is as it appears to be.

The 'bad man'was to find a chest full of gold, but bec he was 'bad' this life - this is all he found.
The 'good' man bec of past deeds was to be skinned, robbed and hung from a tree...but bec he did 'good' deeds this life - he simply got robbed of a few coins.

We don't know what the heck is going on here!!!!

[Miss Hepburn]

A tow truck driver was just dragged to his death by a teenager that jumped into her car and drove away this week in CO, USA.

Karma? Many are discussing many things "How could a loving God permit this?", from the Catholic.
"It was so we could experience compassion."...from the musician...etc.

Me? He had his foot in the wrong place and got tangled and
was dealing with a teen.

You leave a cigar on a counter; the house burns.
Voila - karma explained.

[Mathew James]

Originally Posted by windwhistle

1. Being the good guy does not guarantee a positive outcome.
2. Bad things happen to good people
3. Good things happen to bad people

5. On rein-carnation-If I was bad in another life I will be poor and ugly in this one. Why bother trying to get ahead? My lot has been cast.

Why should I believe in re-incarnation if time doesn't exist and the only moment is now?

This may sound ugly, but the questions in the post reminds me about a time, my two dogs (rotweiller & bulldog) and a squirrel were playing in the backyard. Well, eventually the squirrel ended up in the mouths of the two dogs at the same time and when they pulled back, the squirrel snapped in two. Then in a split second the squirrel was gone and the fun time was over. The dogs then went about their business as if nothing happened. Was there karma that the squirrel was paid back for? Or was it a zig when it should have been zag.

In nature who is good and what is wrong. Are humans part of nature? When is the outcome of an event considered equal on all sides. Is karma a balance that can weigh all these things. But then what needs to be weighed? The dogs got there play and it was amazing to watch, even though it was ugly and very unexpected. It was a now momment that was forged into my memory.

[Shabda]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

A tow truck driver was just dragged to his death by a teenager that jumped into her car and drove away this week in CO, USA.

Karma? Many are discussing many things "How could a loving God permit this?", from the Catholic.
"It was so we could experience compassion."...from the musician...etc.

Me? He had his foot in the wrong place and got tangled and
was dealing with a teen.

You leave a cigar on a counter; the house burns.
Voila - karma explained.

seems pretty simple to me...

Hello Windwhistle...

If you percieve someone as being good or bad, it's just your opinion. The fact that they are here, means they have karma. Bad/good things happen to everyone. Being rich doesn't prevent tragedy.

So I guess someone with a terrible disability must have done something really bad in their last life????? That's not the case! We might think their life is difficult and extremely limiting, but to them, it's extremely worthwhile.

In fact, I am always amazed by the sheer determination and courage that disabled people have. They don't say "I can't" and don't put any restictions on what they want to achieve.

If you think someone has a less fortunate life, it doesn't mean they have done something wrong.....It's quite the reverse! Ever heard the saying........"We can learn so much from the weakest amongst us".


Myer

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Myer

Hello Windwhistle...

If you percieve someone as being good or bad, it's just your opinion. The fact that they are here, means they have karma. Bad/good things happen to everyone. Being rich doesn't prevent tragedy.

So I guess someone with a terrible disability must have done something really bad in their last life????? That's not the case! We might think their life is difficult and extremely limiting, but to them, it's extremely worthwhile.

In fact, I am always amazed by the sheer determination and courage that disabled people have. They don't say "I can't" and don't put any restictions on what they want to achieve.

If you think someone has a less fortunate life, it doesn't mean they have done something wrong.....It's quite the reverse! Ever heard the saying........"We can learn so much from the weakest amongst us".


Myer

Exactly.