A joyous Hell???

[linen53]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yes, I think so too. Just wanted to add a 'caveat' so peeps would understand that psychospiritual consequences of any kind of involvment, obsessive or otherwise, were possibly (a) evolution (in the 'higher', becoming more knowing and loving sense), (b) stagnation, or (c) devolution. All a matter of (more or less) 'free' choice, I think.

As 'framed' in Ch.14 of The Bhagavad Gita (not that I go along with everything in the Gita or any other scripture, mind you):

"Purity engenders Wisdom, Passion avarice, and Ignorance folly, infatuation and darkness. When Purity is in the ascendant, the man evolves; when Passion, he neither evolves nor degenerates; when Ignorance, he is lost."

Personally, I think that one way of getting past 'obsessions' (instead of just trying to 'fight' against them) is to indulge them to the point where one just gets 'tired' of doing the same thing over and over again - always with 'one eye' (at least) 'open', of course, so one sees and knows what one is doing in said regard.

davidsun, I respect your right to quote from the bible and bhagavad gitaand any other so-called holy source but I don't see them as holy or written by holy persons. Who says they are holy? Men?

No, I follow my gut/soul/heart in carving out my personal belief system.

And I have come to believe that if we are on the other side and choose to obsess in an act with others or by ourselves (such as the sex scene I spoke about earlier) and no one is harmed there are no consequences. Our creator made us curious and each one of us is unique. Just as a mother would let their toddler go to a play area that is safe and have fun with other kids such as a park, so our creator puts us in an environment that is safe so we can play at whatever suits our fancy. There is no shame, judgement, scorn or other negativity thrown at us. It just is.

For me anyway, what is just how great my creator is.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by linen53

[b]There are literally uncountable places such as this, I believe. And why? Because our Creator wants us to be who we are, not who he/she wants us to be.

Maybe these 'place' reflect the fact 'we' (every psychospiritual 'soul') are all 'creators' (i.e. aspects of 'the' Creator).

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by linen53

davidsun, I respect your right to quote from the bible and bhagavad gitaand any other so-called holy source but I don't see them as holy or written by holy persons. Who says they are holy? Men?

I quote them only to share the ideas they contain. Whether the perspective they convey is 'holy' (i.e. 'holistic') or not is certainly open to evaluation by readers.

Originally Posted by linen53

No, I follow my gut/soul/heart in carving out my personal belief system.

And heart-based 'mind' I presume. So do I.

Originally Posted by linen53

And I have come to believe that if we are on the other side and choose to obsess in an act with others or by ourselves (such as the sex scene I spoke about earlier) and no one is harmed there are no consequences. Our creator made us curious and each one of us is unique. Just as a mother would let their toddler go to a play area that is safe and have fun with other kids such as a park, so our creator puts us in an environment that is safe so we can play at whatever suits our fancy. There is no shame, judgement, scorn or other negativity thrown at us. It just is.

Yes, I agree. It just 'is'. However, said 'isness' may include what are called 'perversions' (of Life) such as sadomasochistic 'obsessions', for instance, in which case (far from every case involving 'sex', now!) they may have a 'regressive' effect on soul-development, I think. My point was/is that the 'whatever suits ones fancy' idea has both 'good' and 'bad' (or 'positive' and 'negative' in terms of consequences) possibilities contained within it.

Life doesn't progress positively in every case, IOW. That is the 'caveat' - implying a certain degree of unsafeness - which I wanted to introduce into the discussion so peeps didn't think that they and/or others would be perfectly 'OK' no matter what choices they made.

Originally Posted by linen53

For me anyway, what is just how great my creator is.

My sense is that 'you' are on a very positive trajectory indeed.

Originally Posted by linen53

Gracey, these planets are in our sector/universe and openly used to house souls who are of a certain mind-set. There are literally uncountable places such as this, I believe.

And why? Because our Creator wants us to be who we are, not who he/she wants us to be.

I don't believe Earth is the final place we come to refine our skills. I think all places are just different and offer other modes of learning. I'm sure you have heard that Earth is one of the hardest places to incarnate. But what of those souls davidsun spoke of that come from bad places and try to incorporate on Earth and are not successful and full of evil? Those places they came from are far worse than Earth.

There is just so much we don't know. All we can do is speculate and accept what feels right in our souls and leave the rest for when we arrive on the other side and can ask. But as you said it fun to ponder on just how vast and complicated it all is. And how much effort beings on the other side put forth to make this all happen.

Thanks for sharing Linen. Reminds of the Necronomicon book in a way. I have dreamt of life on other planets, but not too much of it.

[Michelle11]

I'm a little late to the party so you may have moved on from the original post but thought I'd add my two cents. I personally don't believe in hell or heaven for that matter. At least not in the traditional sense. I believe our soul sheds all identification with the human self once it moves on from the body. This includes serial killers. They are souls the same as us, no more or less of value. Part of the pain and suffering we go through in this world is because we identify too closely with the human self. But it's not who we are or a true reflection of our soul. It's just a tool our soul uses to learn a concept like love versus hate or things like that.

So I suspect your dream was more a reflection of the energy surrounding serial killers. That they are driven by a purpose that they can't break free from because they are enveloped by it. It brings them joy because they feel they are serving a purpose. Maybe they are in some way serving a purpose or maybe they are confusing purpose with a need to offload their own pain onto others because it makes them feel better and we are all driven by a desire to feel good. I can't say for sure but I suspect the dream was trying to express a concept, feeling or state of mind to you as opposed to describing a place or astral realm. I suspect serial killers are of special interest to you because it's especially hard to have compassion for them considering they take joy out of inflicting pain on others. You seem to be a very unconditionally loving type person but maybe wrestle with extending it to all humans like serial killers and your soul is ready to see a bigger picture and find compassion for all beings. It does sound like you have attracted at least one person who has similar tendencies so in some way there is a desire in you to understand and gain some perspective. What that is, is for you to discover and decide.

In the grand scheme of things, no human is without sin as they say. We've all inflicted some form of pain on another human whether consciously or subconsciously, inadvertent or on purpose because we were triggered by some pain being touched. Serial killers have just taken things farther than most by shedding all social norms and giving themselves permission to indulge their pain and/or the innate animal desire to hunt and kill. It's pretty prevalent in the animal kingdom if you think about it. All animals are driven to kill. Their is a level of joy and satisfaction for the animal as it's fulfilling its drive to survive same as the joy most hunters get when they are successful in their efforts it's just serial killers are hunting other humans. I don't mean to suggest we let serial killers run free. We have rules, laws and social norms as a means of protecting the majority over the whims of a few. They are necessary to ensure a civil society that functions well but we also need not see them or in the minimum their souls as evil. Seeing things from a black/white, good/evil, right/wrong perspective hinders our ability to love unconditionally. So I suspect you were being shown the emotional psyche of serial killers to understand what drives them to maybe get to that place of having an unconditional perception about them. We need not 'love' how they behave but also need not condemn them to eternal fire and brimstone. This place, after all, is only temporary and so are the human personalities we encounter along the way. We all have experiences that affect and shape our human psyche for good and bad and most are oblivious to what motivates them to behave the way they do and even more are out of touch with who they really are as a soul having a human experience and for that reason we are all innocent. That's my perspective at least.

Originally Posted by Michelle11

I'm a little late to the party so you may have moved on from the original post but thought I'd add my two cents. I personally don't believe in hell or heaven for that matter. At least not in the traditional sense. I believe our soul sheds all identification with the human self once it moves on from the body. This includes serial killers. They are souls the same as us, no more or less of value. Part of the pain and suffering we go through in this world is because we identify too closely with the human self. But it's not who we are or a true reflection of our soul. It's just a tool our soul uses to learn a concept like love versus hate or things like that.

So I suspect your dream was more a reflection of the energy surrounding serial killers. That they are driven by a purpose that they can't break free from because they are enveloped by it. It brings them joy because they feel they are serving a purpose. Maybe they are in some way serving a purpose or maybe they are confusing purpose with a need to offload their own pain onto others because it makes them feel better and we are all driven by a desire to feel good. I can't say for sure but I suspect the dream was trying to express a concept, feeling or state of mind to you as opposed to describing a place or astral realm. I suspect serial killers are of special interest to you because it's especially hard to have compassion for them considering they take joy out of inflicting pain on others. You seem to be a very unconditionally loving type person but maybe wrestle with extending it to all humans like serial killers and your soul is ready to see a bigger picture and find compassion for all beings. It does sound like you have attracted at least one person who has similar tendencies so in some way there is a desire in you to understand and gain some perspective. What that is, is for you to discover and decide.

In the grand scheme of things, no human is without sin as they say. We've all inflicted some form of pain on another human whether consciously or subconsciously, inadvertent or on purpose because we were triggered by some pain being touched. Serial killers have just taken things farther than most by shedding all social norms and giving themselves permission to indulge their pain and/or the innate animal desire to hunt and kill. It's pretty prevalent in the animal kingdom if you think about it. All animals are driven to kill. Their is a level of joy and satisfaction for the animal as it's fulfilling its drive to survive same as the joy most hunters get when they are successful in their efforts it's just serial killers are hunting other humans. I don't mean to suggest we let serial killers run free. We have rules, laws and social norms as a means of protecting the majority over the whims of a few. They are necessary to ensure a civil society that functions well but we also need not see them or in the minimum their souls as evil. Seeing things from a black/white, good/evil, right/wrong perspective hinders our ability to love unconditionally. So I suspect you were being shown the emotional psyche of serial killers to understand what drives them to maybe get to that place of having an unconditional perception about them. We need not 'love' how they behave but also need not condemn them to eternal fire and brimstone. This place, after all, is only temporary and so are the human personalities we encounter along the way. We all have experiences that affect and shape our human psyche for good and bad and most are oblivious to what motivates them to behave the way they do and even more are out of touch with who they really are as a soul having a human experience and for that reason we are all innocent. That's my perspective at least.

You have given some food for thought. You always share brilliant insight.

This dream was not the first one that was prophetic and concerning serial killers. I have had many over the years. I have had many perspectives from all of them, including mercy. This one was the only one that took me to a "hell" so to say. That stuck out to me, to see an actual organization of souls in the spirit realm that commit "crimes" on earth. If anything, it did teach about Muslim's religious beliefs a bit more.

[running]

Originally Posted by Michelle11

I'm a little late to the party so you may have moved on from the original post but thought I'd add my two cents. I personally don't believe in hell or heaven for that matter. At least not in the traditional sense. I believe our soul sheds all identification with the human self once it moves on from the body. This includes serial killers. They are souls the same as us, no more or less of value. Part of the pain and suffering we go through in this world is because we identify too closely with the human self. But it's not who we are or a true reflection of our soul. It's just a tool our soul uses to learn a concept like love versus hate or things like that.

So I suspect your dream was more a reflection of the energy surrounding serial killers. That they are driven by a purpose that they can't break free from because they are enveloped by it. It brings them joy because they feel they are serving a purpose. Maybe they are in some way serving a purpose or maybe they are confusing purpose with a need to offload their own pain onto others because it makes them feel better and we are all driven by a desire to feel good. I can't say for sure but I suspect the dream was trying to express a concept, feeling or state of mind to you as opposed to describing a place or astral realm. I suspect serial killers are of special interest to you because it's especially hard to have compassion for them considering they take joy out of inflicting pain on others. You seem to be a very unconditionally loving type person but maybe wrestle with extending it to all humans like serial killers and your soul is ready to see a bigger picture and find compassion for all beings. It does sound like you have attracted at least one person who has similar tendencies so in some way there is a desire in you to understand and gain some perspective. What that is, is for you to discover and decide.

In the grand scheme of things, no human is without sin as they say. We've all inflicted some form of pain on another human whether consciously or subconsciously, inadvertent or on purpose because we were triggered by some pain being touched. Serial killers have just taken things farther than most by shedding all social norms and giving themselves permission to indulge their pain and/or the innate animal desire to hunt and kill. It's pretty prevalent in the animal kingdom if you think about it. All animals are driven to kill. Their is a level of joy and satisfaction for the animal as it's fulfilling its drive to survive same as the joy most hunters get when they are successful in their efforts it's just serial killers are hunting other humans. I don't mean to suggest we let serial killers run free. We have rules, laws and social norms as a means of protecting the majority over the whims of a few. They are necessary to ensure a civil society that functions well but we also need not see them or in the minimum their souls as evil. Seeing things from a black/white, good/evil, right/wrong perspective hinders our ability to love unconditionally. So I suspect you were being shown the emotional psyche of serial killers to understand what drives them to maybe get to that place of having an unconditional perception about them. We need not 'love' how they behave but also need not condemn them to eternal fire and brimstone. This place, after all, is only temporary and so are the human personalities we encounter along the way. We all have experiences that affect and shape our human psyche for good and bad and most are oblivious to what motivates them to behave the way they do and even more are out of touch with who they really are as a soul having a human experience and for that reason we are all innocent. That's my perspective at least.

its sorta confusing to post or not to post. let me just say i dont wish to take away what people think, believe, or experince. but at the same time im on the forum cause i think its good to express an experience that i and some others share. i hope that makes sense. i sorta already expressed it but wish to convey it another way.

when i began experincing a joy unlike anyting i thought possible in a way that made absolutely no sense to me i became very confused. simply because of perhaps many lifetimes of joy coming from, "sometbing." that is the, "programming."

beyond the mind is a place that simply is that, "joy." it expresses itself through the human nervous system. by becoming open to it. once that happens and it becomes established in ones body and mind that joy being more powerful than everything else simply becomes ones experince. not without everything else. not without preferences. not without emotions. not without whatever it may be that makes us, us.

for example. in great fear there is that and a great joy. in a terrible circumstance there is that and a great joy. in sadness there is that and a great joy. in judgement there is that and a great joy. and so on and so on.

how? because it is not us making it. not us manufacturing it in some way. it is using us to express it by means of the human nervous system. so one cant will it away. one cant judge it away. once it has become one with us. she i will call it only knows one thing and that is joy itself. the human and maybe animal nervous system is designed in a way to express that in us for us to experince. flooding the body and mind effortlessly without pause.

so one could come to that and think. "omg what a joke." and feel very confused until enough time passes to become acclimated to the new normal. it's imo the biggest joke of the universe. lol

so i share that. because if you think about it its not so bad. its actually pretty cool imo. rather than orchestrating the mind in some way we think produces it. we simply become open to it. and in that we get to be as we are but with that.

because of its nature. because that quenches our minds and our bodies. it is by design a peace pipe.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Gracey

This one was the only one that took me to a "hell" so to say. That stuck out to me, to see an actual organization of souls in the spirit realm that commit "crimes" on earth. If anything, it did teach about Muslim's religious beliefs a bit more.

Yah, I think there is a "me against others" and (in group-think form) "us against them" kind of psychospiritual 'stream' which may (and often does!) psychopathically and/or sociopathically flow from feelings of hate that Life is not the way one would like it to be ... 'Satan', i.e. selfishness, hates being in 'second' place!

People then self-compensatorily 'enjoy' vengefully venting their hate and inflicting pain on 'targets' which become 'scapegoats' in said regard.

I don't think the phenomenon is a specifically 'Muslim' one, though that cultural stream (which, though nominally espousing 'submission' as a way of life - Islam means 'surrender'! - actually thrives on the idea being 'special') is the 'home' of many such stream-swimming 'fish', I think.

There are many 'cultures' in history which were 'populated' (moved?) by such feelings. What happened in Germany, Bosnia, Rwanda stand out out in this regard. Members of Mayan as well as some ( though they are generally Life-embracing) 'Native American' cultures used to enjoy 'treating' their 'enemies' brutally as well.

[running]

Originally Posted by Gracey

You have given some food for thought. You always share brilliant insight.

This dream was not the first one that was prophetic and concerning serial killers. I have had many over the years. I have had many perspectives from all of them, including mercy. This one was the only one that took me to a "hell" so to say. That stuck out to me, to see an actual organization of souls in the spirit realm that commit "crimes" on earth. If anything, it did teach about Muslim's religious beliefs a bit more.

in my view prefernces are not something one should get rid of in the pursuit of spiritual growth. bliss is non dual. but because of that we get to keep who we are in that. people think you have to become neutral about things. they got things backwards. we dont if we are on a journey to the bliss. because it is non dual. so we as individuals dont have to be to be open to it.

an important preference in life in my opinion is wish to stay alive and wish the same for others. to think otherwise would be a form of mental illness imo. for whatever the reason may be. some people in the religious culture of Muslims are commiting murder and so on. i don't know why some in one religious culture would not rise beyond that while all others have. im certain most in such a religious belief wish not to participate in such heinous activity and i dont have ill feelings towards the group as a whole. but what is the real problem and this is just my opinion. why in gods name are not those whom are in that religion absolutely condemning these acts. i cant put my finger on it. but that is what i find disturbing. perhaps they are and im just not seeing it. if it was me in such a religious culture i would be screaming from rooftops.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Yah, I think there is a "me against others" and in group-think form "us against them" kind of psychospiritual 'stream' which may (and often does!) psychopathically and/or sociopathically flow from feelings of hate (that Life is not the way one would like it to be ... 'Satan', i.e. selfishness, hates being in 'second' place! )

People then self-compensatorliy 'enjoy' vengefully inflicting 'pain' on 'targets' which become 'scapegoats' in said regard.

I don't think the phenomenon is a specifically 'Muslim' one, though that cultural stream (which, though nominally espousing 'submission' as a way of life - Islam means 'surrender'! - actually thrives on the idea being 'special' I think) is the 'home' of meany such 'fish', I think.

There are many 'cultures' in history which were populated by such. What happened in Germany, Bosnia, Rwanda stand out out in this regard. Members of Mayan as well as some (generally Life-embracing) 'Native American' including cultures used to enjoy 'treating' their 'enemies' brutally as well.

this is what i meant about learning of the Muslim religion more:



This dream I had on May 31, 2016. It came to pass on June 12, 2016. It concerned a mass killing in Orlando Florida. I was with the killer and his wife. The killer actually transformed into a large green dragon/lizard creature before he took me to hell. He told me how many will be killed and much more. After the dream came to pass, I researched this figure according to his Muslim faith and I learned that lizards are the omen of the most evil. The transformation he had (man to lizard) means he will receive divine punishment.