A joyous Hell???

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by linen53

Everything is like that. We get to fulfill our obsessions. Not just sex. And there is no test. No grading. No pass or fail. We just keep moving forward, until we graduate.

This is true only if and as souls continue to be loving (i.e. beneficently inclined) in relation something others to some degree, I think. (Hence the veracity of Jesus's statement: "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matthew 24), I think. Note: I regard the 'enduring' he references to mean continuing to be loving in some way despite encountering 'inquity' in others!)

The following transcript from an interview session of a hypnotically regressed subject (S) by Dr. Michael Newton (Dr. N), excerpted from his book, Destiny of Souls, suggests that what you say is not always the case. This is not presented as an 'argument', since I think it is generally the case. I just thought the idea of things also possibly going in the 'other' direction might be interesting (for some here at least) to consider.

Note: the word 'hybrid' in reference to souls references souls that have developed in other planetary systems and only recently incarnated on 'earth' (which 'system' they are consequently often not 'positively' adapted to).

Also note: implicit in the transcribed material is the idea that quite highly developed souls (which considerable 'expertise' in soul-full realms) may still incarnate to completed certain soul-developmental objectives.

Dr. N: Since you work with the severely damaged souls, can you give me a little more information about your duties?

S: I'm in a special section working with those souls who have become lost in a morass of evil.

Dr. N: (after learning this subject works only with those souls from Earth who have incarnated on other worlds before they came to Earth) In this section, are these the hybrid souls I have heard about?

S: Yes, in a restoration area where we deal with those who have become atrocity souls.

Dr. N: What a terrible name to call a soul!

S: I'm sorry you are bothered by this, but what else would you call a being associated with acts of evil that are so serious they are unsalvageable in their present state?

Dr. N: I know, but the human body had a lot to do with ...

S: (cutting me off) We don't consider that to be an excuse.

Dr. N: Okay, then please continue with the nature of your work.

S: I am a second-stage restorer.

Dr. N: What does that mean?

S: When these souls lose their bodies, they are met by their guides and perhaps one close friend. That first stage does not last long and then the souls who have been involved with horrible acts are brought here to us.

Dr. N: Why doesn't the first stage last as long as with other souls?

S: We don't want them to begin to forget the impact of their deeds—the harm and pain they caused on Earth. The second stage separates them from the uncontaminated souls.

Dr. N: This sounds like you are running a leper colony.

S: (abruptly) I am not amused by that remark.

Dr. N: (after apologizing) You are not saying that all souls who commit evil acts are hybrid souls, as you define them?

S: Of course not, that's my section. But you should understand some real monsters on Earth are hybrids.

Dr. N: I thought the spirit world was a place of order with masters of superior knowledge. If these hybrid souls are contaminated abnormalities in human form—souls with the inability to adjust to the emotional makeup of the human body—why were they sent here? This indicates to me the spirit world is not infallible.

S: A vast majority are fine, and they make great contributions to human society. You would have us deny all souls the opportunity to come to Earth because some turn out badly?

Dr. N: No, of course not. Let's move on. What do you do with these souls?

S: Others, way above me, examine their contaminated energy in light of just how the world of their earlier experience impacted on their human body. They want to know if this was an isolated case, or if other souls from that planet have had problems on Earth. If that is true, other souls from that world might not be permitted to come to Earth again.

Dr. N: Please tell me more about vour section.

S: My area is not devoted to souls who have committed one serious act of wrongdoing. We work with habitually cruel life styles. These souls are then given a choice. We will do our best to clean up their energy by rehabilitation and if we think they are salvageable, they are offered a choice to come back to Earth in roles where they will receive the same type of pain they caused, only multiplied.

Dr. N: Could a salvageable soul be one who committed terrible atrocities in life but showed great remorse?

S: Probably.

Dr. N: I thought karmic justice was not punitive?

S: It's not. The offer represents an opportunity for stabilization and redemption. It usually will take more than one life to endure an equal measure of the same kind of pain they caused to many people. That's why I said multiplied.

Dr. N: Even so, I suppose most souls take this option?

S: You are mistaken. Most are too fearful that they will fall again into the same patterns. They also lack the courage to be victims in a number of future lives.

Dr. N: If they won't come back to Earth, then what do you do?

S: These souls will then go the way of those souls we consider to be unsalvageable. We will then disseminate their energy.

Dr. N: Is this a form of remodeling energy—or what?

S: Ah ... yes ... we call it the breaking up of energy—that's what dissemination means. Certainly, it is remodeled. We break up their energy into particles.

Dr. N: I thought energy could not be destroyed. Aren't you destroying the identity of these contaminated souls?

S: The energy is not destroyed, it is changed and converted. We might mix one particle of the old energy with nine particles of new fresh energy provided for our use. The dilution will make that which is contaminated ineffectual, but a small part of the original identity remains intact.

Dr. N: So, the negative badness energy is mixed with overdoses of new goodness energy to render the contaminated soul harmless? S: (laughs) Not necessarily goodness but rather freshness.

Dr. N: Why would any soul resist dissemination?

S: Even though those souls who accept these procedures for their own benefit recover and eventually lead productive lives on Earth and elsewhere ... there are souls who will not stand for any loss of identity.

Dr. N: Then what happens to these souls who refuse your help?

S: Many will just go into limbo, to a place of solitude. I don't know what will eventually happen to them.

Originally Posted by davidsun

Interesting, Gracey. Given that I think/believe that Life (in general) is its 'own' power-source and that, in line with this belief, my understanding of the 'mechanics' of reincarnation is such that the choice to be reborn and the basic 'nature' (or 'character') of the life that is chosen is as described/portrayed in Michael Newton's books (also as described as ion Seth Speaks), I am inclined to think that what transpires in your (anyone's dreams) is your personal interpretation of your personal experience of 'reality' - not necessarily the (whole) truth about whatever it is that is being 'perceived'.

Believing so, I am inclined to think that your 'sense' that there is a 'machine' (kind of thing) which incarnates 'evil' into reincarnating souls to carry with them and deal with (or not) in their next life may be a projection based on an incomplete theory/understanding of the process (of your trying to understand the presence of 'evil' in the world).

I also think that "I was called up from oblivion against my own will to be born." and "This life of mine now is different, not my will." probably is (i.e. may also be) a projection deriving from such incomplete understanding (of how any kind of soul becomes 'incarnate').

I know that I could very well be 'wrong' about all this. It is the theory which I believe and go on because it makes the most sense to me at present. I project that I will find out how close it is to the 'real' (?) truth when I am in full 'soul' mode: "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. I Corinthians, 13.

I just offer the above perspective (projection ) for your contemplative pleasure.

I project that I will find out how close it is to the 'real' (?) truth when I am in full 'soul' mode: "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. I Corinthians, 13.




Same here. One point in time, the whole truth will be known. Until then perspectives change when new awareness arises. I have questioned myself in all the ways you presented here. I stand with my perspective as written at this moment in time. In one point in time, the truth will be Known.

Originally Posted by linen53

I was on what I call the gray planet once. It was inhabited with gossipers. I called them 'the murmurers'. If you ever watch a golf game. Pay attention to the crowd of observers. Especially when they murmur.

Everything is like that. We get to fulfill our obsessions. Not just sex. And there is no test. No grading. No pass or fail. We just keep moving forward, until we graduate.

That would drive me nuts. My mind is silent most the time. This reminds me of that scenario where a person climbs a hill to grab a grape, but can never get it. I can't remember where its from, but it has always stuck with me as hellish and not a joyful one.

[linen53]

davidsun I do realize there are many pockets of differences. Those souls that are from other planets must come from very bad places. Why would the Creators even put people to incarnate in such dark places? Or are there creators in those sectors/universes similar to ours but on the dark side. I'm open to all trains of thoughts on this matter because we just don't know.

I've heard before that not all universes or sectors of space are 'free will' oriented. That there are some pretty bizarre places full of chaos. I am just thankful I live in a sector that is love oriented and full of support.

I do believe there are many errors that occur and things aren't as perfect as we are led to believe.

But in our hereafter/heaven space (which is vast with many uncountable planes) there is room for us to explore, experience and evolve. We are nurtured.

So I stick by what I said before. I know from my experiences in dreams and visions that the majority of us are allowed to experience what we love to the point of obsession if we want.

Gracey, I was put in a transparent bubble on the 'gray planet' that was paradise inside but bleak and terrain-less on the outside. I was there for a different reason than 'the murmurers'. They drove me nuts. I would take my horse for a ride or hide in my cottage if they got to be to much for me.

Originally Posted by linen53

davidsun I do realize there are many pockets of differences. Those souls that are from other planets must come from very bad places. Why would the Creators even put people to incarnate in such dark places? Or are there creators in those sectors/universes similar to ours but on the dark side. I'm open to all trains of thoughts on this matter because we just don't know.

I've heard before that not all universes or sectors of space are 'free will' oriented. That there are some pretty bizarre places full of chaos. I am just thankful I live in a sector that is love oriented and full of support.

I do believe there are many errors that occur and things aren't as perfect as we are led to believe.

But in our hereafter/heaven space (which is vast with many uncountable planes) there is room for us to explore, experience and evolve. We are nurtured.

So I stick by what I said before. I know from my experiences in dreams and visions that the majority of us are allowed to experience what we love to the point of obsession if we want.

Gracey, I was put in a transparent bubble on the 'gray planet' that was paradise inside but bleak and terrain-less on the outside. I was there for a different reason than 'the murmurers'. They drove me nuts. I would take my horse for a ride or hide in my cottage if they got to be to much for me.

So, what do you make of these different planets, like the gray planet you were on....
Are they different regions for spiritual development in concentrated form or something completely different? Does a soul travel from planet to planet mastering certain things and what of the earth, is it a final destination or a place to learn to balance all vices and virtues of higher learning? Just some thoughts that are going through my head at this moment in time? It is fun to ponder.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by linen53

So I stick by what I said before. I know from my experiences in dreams and visions that the majority of us are allowed to experience what we love to the point of obsession if we want.

Yes, I think so too. Just wanted to add a 'caveat' so peeps would understand that psychospiritual consequences of any kind of involvment, obsessive or otherwise, were possibly (a) evolution (in the 'higher', becoming more knowing and loving sense), (b) stagnation, or (c) devolution. All a matter of (more or less) 'free' choice, I think.

As 'framed' in Ch.14 of The Bhagavad Gita (not that I go along with everything in the Gita or any other scripture, mind you):

"Purity engenders Wisdom, Passion avarice, and Ignorance folly, infatuation and darkness. When Purity is in the ascendant, the man evolves; when Passion, he neither evolves nor degenerates; when Ignorance, he is lost."

Personally, I think that one way of getting past 'obsessions' (instead of just trying to 'fight' against them) is to indulge them to the point where one just gets 'tired' of doing the same thing over and over again - always with 'one eye' (at least) 'open', of course, so one sees and knows what one is doing in said regard.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Personally, I think that one way of getting past 'obsessions' (instead of just trying to 'fight' against them) is to indulge them to the point where one just gets 'tired' of doing the same thing over and over again - always with 'one eye' (at least) 'open', of course, so one sees and knows what one is doing in said regard.

***

In the moments of passion, driven by obsession, lust, whatever, the time continuum during which our attention is captive to that emotion may perhaps not allow nonchalant observation as ideally picturised. This is why remorse follows the feral action ... later, when we sober down or we may say, when the energy in that emotion has been expended.

The key seems to be detachment ... that’s a word used too often ... let us instead say, an unclinging orientation, wherein we engage in all experiences but are not addicted to any, with frequent contemplation to transform ourselves by steering our thoughts, words & actions in a direction that expands rather than contracts our consciousness.

***

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

The key seems to be detachment ... that’s a word used too often ... let us instead say, an unclinging orientation, wherein we engage in all experiences but are not addicted to any, with frequent contemplation to transform ourselves by steering our thoughts, words & actions in a direction that expands rather than contracts our consciousness.

Yah, proceeding open-minded-n-hearted-ly ... not thinking-n-feeling that the way one presently thinks-n-feels must be the be-all-and-end-all of 'reality' pertaining to any given issue or matter.

Methinks sincerely 'praying', as a matter of course, that one be 'shown' whatever (no strings attached) it would be 'good' or 'better' for one to see and know is 'topnotch' policy.

https://tenor.com/view/what-shook-sh...ut-gif-5159317

[JustBe]

Heaven and hell have no seperation so I guess joy and behaviours are part of this view. Guides come in many forms, showing us what we need to end our own separation. To show us where we might still gain deeper awareness of all aspects of life in us still seeking in some level of our true self.People feel and act, not always in alignment to our ‘normal understanding’ everything we experience deepens our understanding, deepens our awareness and when that cycle ends the view changes. The empaths journey takes you through so many ways to become the other to understand yourself as you are and can be. The empath carries others in them to let all others go from them in peace. When you are clear feeling, clear empathy, clear seeing, clearly connected without skewed views and feelings of others in you, you have brought heaven on earth as yourself..you are home and ready to ‘not take on, but simply be aware’ of others as they are. The skewed view no longer in you, as you. You see others as they are and as they feel. We find the means to it our way, that works for us..your prophetic dreams have been good teachers.

“Nothing can take away our natural true state, even the most hellish of experiences.”-how we see the behaviours of others is determined by the eyes and feelings we look through. Spirit eyes understand the whole picture, more aware of what is moving through as a whole.

[linen53]

Originally Posted by Gracey

So, what do you make of these different planets, like the gray planet you were on....
Are they different regions for spiritual development in concentrated form or something completely different? Does a soul travel from planet to planet mastering certain things and what of the earth, is it a final destination or a place to learn to balance all vices and virtues of higher learning? Just some thoughts that are going through my head at this moment in time? It is fun to ponder.

Gracey, these planets are in our sector/universe and openly used to house souls who are of a certain mind-set. There are literally uncountable places such as this, I believe.

And why? Because our Creator wants us to be who we are, not who he/she wants us to be.

I don't believe Earth is the final place we come to refine our skills. I think all places are just different and offer other modes of learning. I'm sure you have heard that Earth is one of the hardest places to incarnate. But what of those souls davidsun spoke of that come from bad places and try to incorporate on Earth and are not successful and full of evil? Those places they came from are far worse than Earth.

There is just so much we don't know. All we can do is speculate and accept what feels right in our souls and leave the rest for when we arrive on the other side and can ask. But as you said it fun to ponder on just how vast and complicated it all is. And how much effort beings on the other side put forth to make this all happen.