Is there such a thing as "fault"

Originally Posted by moke64916

Correct. I am not my mind. It is a tool, but not who I am. You know when your not your mind when you are fully present in the moment. That is when the wonderful feelings come. If you look back at the times you were present in the moment, how did you feel? I bet you felt at your best. The Present Moment is key for spirituality in my opinion. Where else would someone find joy, pure live, bliss, and peace. When the mind is quit is when positive emotions follow. But yes, we are not our minds. It is part of what MAKES up me, but it is not me. I am my Being. The goal is for mind, body, spirit unification. It happens in the present moment.

Yes Moke of course but some images from past come back again and again preventing me staying in the now, finding bliss. Frankly, it is not just mind, chakras etc also play a role. They remember. They need healing.

Self-forgiveness is necessary. I say there is nothing to forgive it was not my fault. I don't even know why this or that happened. By judging myself I give power to what I am not and it comes again and again to bother me.

You are saying just staying in the now is self-forgiveness I guess? Cool! But easy to say. I think in spiritual development the ultimate goal is to stay in the now and find bliss. There is no doubt about that. All other practices, e.g. self-forgiveness, chakra healing, astral trips etc., are done to achieve that goal.

I am working on the self-forgiveness part, and chakra healing (don't know if they are not healing me in fact lol)

Wrong?

3dnow

[Internal Queries]

You are saying just staying in the now is self-forgiveness I guess? Cool! But easy to say. I think in spiritual development the ultimate goal is to stay in the now and find bliss. There is no doubt about that. All other practices, e.g. self-forgiveness, chakra healing, astral trips etc., are done to achieve that goal.

well yes .. for some folks blissing out is what it's all about. but for some others it's about self exploration and study so to understand why we humans are so ... well ... unbalanced. We think the initial hit on the pre-human psyche was the recognition of death and mortality and out of this self awareness grew with the imagination.

anyway ... the longest lasting and most potent psychic high is not the goal for some people.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

well yes .. for some folks blissing out is what it's all about. but for some others it's about self exploration and study so to understand why we humans are so ... well ... unbalanced. We think the initial hit on the pre-human psyche was the recognition of death and mortality and out of this self awareness grew with the imagination.

anyway ... the longest lasting and most potent psychic high is not the goal for some people.

Yes respect to all folks but this quite out of topic dude!

I am talking self-forgiveness. Total. Yeah.

3dnow

[Internal Queries]

oops! sorry! forgive me.

Originally Posted by Internal Queries

oops! sorry! forgive me.

Just kidding man..

3dnow

We are here to live & learn, not to be some sort of mythically perfect spiritual automatons. It is useful to review our choices & appreciate if there might have been more useful options, but it isn’t necessary to spank self for not having chosen the most perfect option available!! Learning is having this realization that another option may have been more useful.

Not having self forgiveness isn’t about not taking responsibility, but not having the need to beat up on self for going through what are entirely normal learning processes. What is an issue is if one never engages in the self awareness that is useful in having growth.

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

I have hurt people in my life and I have been at fault. Sorry I can't apply your line of reasoning to my reality.
James

That you have had the self awareness where you realize that other options would have been desirable w/ those you’ve hurt is wisdom & productive growth.

It isn’t necessary to label your self as permanently bad though in this process. What would be problematic is if you hurt others & didn’t realize that your actions weren’t a good choice. Appreciate this, then clear the slate. Have patience & compassion for your self’s journey.

Originally Posted by WhiteShaman

We can judge ourselves with compassion and understanding and sympathy but in the end I am responsible for my actions.
... I can only speak for myself on this..............I know better so therefore I am responsible.

You are right about taking responsibility, but this doesn't mean that we don't move past it to having complete respect for self. We all make mistakes, & some of them are real whoppers!!! This is just exploring our humanity. Even while we are appreciating that we have not make the best possible choice we can still do so from a position of self respect.

Originally Posted by mattie

We are here to live & learn, not to be some sort of mythically perfect spiritual automatons. It is useful to review our choices & appreciate if there might have been more useful options, but it isn’t necessary to spank self for not having chosen the most perfect option available!! Learning is having this realization that another option may have been more useful.

Yes and if you made a choice out of a set of options, this is a consequence of all you have previously experienced in your life, which you don't remember. So you don't really know why you made this choice and you are not responsible for it.

Not having self forgiveness isn’t about not taking responsibility, but not having the need to beat up on self for going through what are entirely normal learning processes. What is an issue is if one never engages in the self awareness that is useful in having growth.

Yes but one prefers having a good excuse. And I am not sure such suffering (self-judgment) is necessary for growth. On the contrary, when you stop self-judgment real you is free.

(BTW, I may have misunderstood you, so hope this makes sense)

Thanks,

3dnow

Originally Posted by mattie

What would be problematic is if you hurt others & didn’t realize that your actions weren’t a good choice.

Hmm. So you do it again.

I say still not your fault. Because if you don't realize your fault, this is because your mind, the result of everything you experienced, is not capable of doing it.

So still not guilty.

3dnow