DM's fear of love - question

Not sure that it's as the topic title suggests though. Almost everyone must feel fear of vulnerability at some time or another. In itself it possibly afflicts men more since they are more often expected to show courage faced with a flight or fight threat - comes back to "the protector" in your explanation. Faced with a threat you either cop out and run/surrender (unmanly) or summon courage to do the protecting. No one wants to be wound-able but fear is a great driver of courage. As I see it, you don't get the latter without the former.

"Love" is an abstract. Unlikely to present many men with physical fight/flight problems of itself but it could have physical effects. Being it's regulated by the sympathetic / parasympathetic nervous systems it can cause havoc in the viscera, everyone knows that: heart ache, knotted up stomach, rapid breathing, tears, you name it. The experiences can be most unpleasant and sometimes linger after a direct stimulus is removed (parasympathetic not working fully). The experience is remembered all the same but probably shelved behind the "manly" lock-up.

It's a conjecture but might this be taken as surrender before reaching conscious awareness, triggering the flight or fight and therefore a drawing back? Just guessing (again) that men's guardedness about their emotions, no tangible threat is present so courage doesn't play an immediate part. In its absence emotional bewilderment emerges to make withdrawal the safe option. The whole has probably happened before the conscious mind gets hold of it. As you say, emotional suppression doesn't make exploration easy.

Then again it could be that some male's emotions eventually atrophy as they aren't basic to their drives; and there's no fear because there's no vulnerability? But...that doesn't explain the effect of a man's life crashing down over a broken relationship... but this topic isn't about broken relations... I try to keep on track!!

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[ForgedInFire]

Thats the one sided DF favoritism "tf theory" for ya. If anyone takes a much harder look at it.. it pretty much places all blame and responsibility on the DM.. While absolving the DF of any wrong doing, any wounding and all issues. They are being told that the DF are "spiritually advance" have no "healing work to do" and are just "waiting" for the DM to "get with the program" ( codependent DF program mind you) And are we being demanded from to do things the DF wont even do for themselves?!? It is never our sole responsibility to do everything and neglect ourselves just for the DF

And yet.. nearly all DF are still waiting years and decades and even a lifetime desperately for the union they desire to never come.

A waste of time for nothing because they are having their ego's stroked in overtime with the unbalanced belief systems i mention above.AND not to mention that obsession about the DM what hes doing/feeling/thinking in all those youtube videos that are the who what where when why and how divine masculine obsessional youtube videos.

All attention and focus is being taught to always be on the DM only and never herself nor doing any healing work.

Nearly all DF never question why that is.They just keep repeating the same toxic behaviors of blameshifing, DM bashing and repeat immature and disgusting behaviors.

If that isnt enough the DF hold pity parties in full copy and paste fashion to multiple places and nonstop engage in"professional victim status" because of "what he did and does to me wah" So here comes the gimme gimmes for attention and pity that a DF will try to get from anyone and as many of them as she can.

Yea sure. boo hoo. The DM shows the DF her woundings but he is to blame for everything. (get real) We are never to blame for the DF's issues just because we show what it is to them. We are never the cause of them either.Why should we ever accept blame for that?

Furthermore the DF will always bring her old toxic behaviors of all past relationships and enact them yet again in circular repeat fashion towards their DM.


The DM is afraid to love..?!? Thats a lie but there comes a point when after they have done so since the beginning, it is all thrown back in their face and presented with DF toxic behaviors.

Some of these things are mistrust, accusations, an increase of clingy behavior, a constant need of reassurances, needing to play mommie and have constant supervision over us, spying, eavesdropping, stalking,manipulation, ultimatums, betrayal and erosion of trust. Seeking help and advice behind our backs and revealing intimate and personal details to anyone who will listen( family friends and even strangers) Creating blogs for the entire internet to read while having zero discernment about revealing every single personal life situation in exaggerated detail all to anyone who will read it.

These behaviors will always get a DM to back off and withdraw. If so many DF are being told to have boundaries and not accept toxic behaviors..

WHY ARE WE BEING LABELED AS BEING IN FEAR FOR DOING THE SAME TOWARDS THE DF? (having boundaries)

I advise you and all DF to discard and stop believing in the lame liar tf theory in its current and decades longstanding form. It is filled with lies and DF ego stroking

Disclaimer: this is not a one size fits all assertion, so of course there are numerous variations, woundings and lessons each tf pair will have that is specifically designed for them only.

[jro5139]

Everyone's experience is different. Every runner may have a different reason. For mine, I can understand it intellectually, even if it doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I know his reasons and understand it better than he knows I do.
I don't think anyone ever said they were perfect here. Nobody on this earth is perfect.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

Not sure that it's as the topic title suggests though. Almost everyone must feel fear of vulnerability at some time or another. In itself it possibly afflicts men more since they are more often expected to show courage faced with a flight or fight threat - comes back to "the protector" in your explanation. Faced with a threat you either cop out and run/surrender (unmanly) or summon courage to do the protecting. No one wants to be wound-able but fear is a great driver of courage. As I see it, you don't get the latter without the former.

Everyone feels fear of vulnerability, yeah, though in the context of intimacy it appears to be much more pronounced in men, and I think that tends to be because they're afraid of expressing their true feelings for fear of being thought weak or effeminate - again, I suspect that's a product of their conditioning. In a life-or-death situation it's beneficial to appear strong and either stay and fight or flee the scene, but that mindset is detrimental in the context of an intimate relationship.

It's a conjecture but might this be taken as surrender before reaching conscious awareness, triggering the flight or fight and therefore a drawing back? Just guessing (again) that men's guardedness about their emotions, no tangible threat is present so courage doesn't play an immediate part. In its absence emotional bewilderment emerges to make withdrawal the safe option. The whole has probably happened before the conscious mind gets hold of it. As you say, emotional suppression doesn't make exploration easy.

I'm unsure on the meaning of the first sentence - how are you defining surrender? In truth I think expressing one's vulnerability can require considerable courage for many men (this can also be an issue for women, of course, though again it tends to be more pronounced in men), because there's a fear for many of us that we'll be rejected or humiliated, thought weak and unmanly, if we express how we really feel. What's especially unfortunate is that I don't think many men are even conscious that these thought processes are actually operating in them.

Then again it could be that some male's emotions eventually atrophy as they aren't basic to their drives; and there's no fear because there's no vulnerability? But...that doesn't explain the effect of a man's life crashing down over a broken relationship... but this topic isn't about broken relations... I try to keep on track!!

I think the majority of men simply become so skilled at repressing their emotions that it takes some crisis or other - eg the end of a relationship - to bring the emotions to the surface, and then things can get real ugly. Of course that can also apply to women, too, I don't mean to imply that women are always models of emotional stability either.

Originally Posted by A human Being

Everyone feels fear of vulnerability, yeah, though in the context of intimacy it appears to be much more pronounced in men, and I think that tends to be because they're afraid of expressing their true feelings for fear of being thought weak or effeminate - again, I suspect that's a product of their conditioning. In a life-or-death situation it's beneficial to appear strong and either stay and fight or flee the scene, but that mindset is detrimental in the context of an intimate relationship.

Mostly in agreement here - social conditioning is pretty much behind it but that raises another question in how and why the tradition persists into current times when the hunter/gatherer grows less relevant. I suspect there are outwardly societal issues probably too boring for the thread except to say the rise of women towards parity and the physiological diminution of males in e.g the 50%+ drop in sperm count since the mid 1940s etc, leads to a reassertion of manhood values in things like stubbly faces (current fashion in the UK). Various things. But I still contend that in some males emotions are so far removed from the surface that under ordinary circumstances there's no fear because there's no emotion....until a crash brings it explosively out where at first it won't be understood and if ever it is, after a lot of contemplation and soul-searching. You touch on this in your last comment.

I'm unsure on the meaning of the first sentence - how are you defining surrender?

Copping out, flight or freeze - while it's still in those few hundred milliseconds before it reaches the conscious mind by which time the forks in the pathways will have been set. It raises yet another question: what would prompt it?

In truth I think expressing one's vulnerability can require considerable courage for many men (this can also be an issue for women, of course, though again it tends to be more pronounced in men), because there's a fear for many of us that we'll be rejected or humiliated, thought weak and unmanly, if we express how we really feel. What's especially unfortunate is that I don't think many men are even conscious that these thought processes are actually operating in them.

True, although they'll often express themselves verbally - and though it isn't for this topic there are moments when ardent utterances of the "I love you" sort can burst through - when conscious awareness is shadowed briefly. Whether they'd consider themselves wound-able then is open for conjecture. Also agree with your closing sentence there but that's conditioning, no?

I think the majority of men simply become so skilled at repressing their emotions that it takes some crisis or other - eg the end of a relationship - to bring the emotions to the surface, and then things can get real ugly. Of course that can also apply to women, too, I don't mean to imply that women are always models of emotional stability either.

Indeed as seen elsewhere here. We seem to be more articulate in expressing our emotions verbally where most men aren't and some (women) allow the fallout more expression - the obsessions, longing, hurt and so on. On occasion men take to other media to express emotions: music, art, choreography. Though there's no reason for differences in current times there are far more male composers than females; but then, far more romantic novelists among women.

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[Aldous]

I found these existential comics to be a great help in understanding the universe.
https://existentialcomics.com/comic/226

[Aldous]

Existential Werewolves
https://existentialcomics.com/comic/228

https://existentialcomics.com/comic/227

[Aldous]

Women teaching virtue.
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/131

Mary Wollstonecraft was an 18th century philosopher and feminist. She is best known today for Vindication of the Rights of Woman, which argues that women should have the same fundamental rights as men (in particular education). Since both men and women were equal as humans before God, and since there was only a single virtue which stems from God, that virtue must be cultivated equally and in the same manor for both sexes. Both that book, and Vindication of the Rights of Man (where she argued that the French Revolution was justified, against Edmund Burke) were well received and widely read in her time. However, after her death, her husband William Godwin published a tell all account of her life, including her affairs, suicide attempts, atheism, and children outside of wedlock. He meant for it to be a positive account showing a modern woman, but society was not ready to hear about a woman having affairs outside of wedlock, and in particular they weren't interested in such a woman's opinions on the nature of virtue. Her reputation suffered severely, and her works were largely forgotten until their revival at a much later date by second wave feminists.

[starnight1]

Aldous, these comics r awesome:)

The FEAR of love is complicated, i m a woman, but i have a masculine inside ,that fear is complicated .......

[gypsymystique]

I am the one with the fear, and I am representing the feminine. This question is lost on me. He was always ready.