Witchcraft spirits?

[norseman]

Agree absolutely LFH. "magic" is a tool, thats all. Just like a knife can be used to carve a fine object or it can be used to harm someone.
Desire [ which I would call Focus - essential to know exactly what it is you wish to do ] , Intent - the precise mechanics of it, and Projection - carrying the process through. Belief as a given. But that still begs the question - where does the energy came from ? As magic is of this Earth, it must obey the laws of this Earth including the Laws of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy/Matter. [can you tell I was a Chemical Engineer for over 3o years ] The energy is in the Earth and is magnetic in nature. The practitioner is a channel for the energies, he/she influences the flow. A prime requirement is a deep understanding, an intimate relationship with the land, an intuitive feel for power sources. This is the field I work in. I do not work with people, just the Earth.

Originally Posted by norseman

Agree absolutely LFH. "magic" is a tool, thats all. Just like a knife can be used to carve a fine object or it can be used to harm someone.
Desire [ which I would call Focus - essential to know exactly what it is you wish to do ] , Intent - the precise mechanics of it, and Projection - carrying the process through. Belief as a given. But that still begs the question - where does the energy came from ? As magic is of this Earth, it must obey the laws of this Earth including the Laws of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Energy/Matter. [can you tell I was a Chemical Engineer for over 3o years ] The energy is in the Earth and is magnetic in nature. The practitioner is a channel for the energies, he/she influences the flow. A prime requirement is a deep understanding, an intimate relationship with the land, an intuitive feel for power sources. This is the field I work in. I do not work with people, just the Earth.

Beautifully said! You are possessed of great knowledge and it's always a pleasure to engage in conversation with you I agree with everything in your post but one point. If magic is of this earth and does not originate from beyond it (i.e., in spirit) and must obey earth laws of physics (thermodynamics and conservationof energy/mattrer, etc.), then how does one explain magical occurances that defy such laws?? I'm just askin

OOO *sits back, gets the popcorn, and waits to learn...*

[norseman]

[] "Magical occurences which defy such laws"

And that, LFH, is the key question. I would argue that there is no such denial, it all comes down to energy. This is the mechanism which I propose.

With these tools, I believe that an Irrational Logic [Fuzzy Science ! ] can be constructed to explain how magic works.

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle :
This observation and principle originally applied to Quantum Mechanics but has wider implications.
For example, it implies that Cause and Effect is also subject to uncertainty in that many effects are possible with varying degrees of Probability. Any suggestions made here MUST comply with the Laws of Conservation of Mass and Energy. To change the Effect in accord with the will of the practitioner seems to suggest that additional energy is added to the equation by the Will i.e. Will is a force in its own right.
In case this seems illogical, may I ask that you consider Gravity. The strongest force in the universe, yet so easily defeated by anyone of us picking an object from the floor.
Will is an application of Mind, and Mind is electrochemical in nature and so ought to be capable of transmission. Before this idea is rejected out of hand, I would remind you of Kirlian Photography which demonstrates an energy field around living objects. The concept has been studied for millennia as Chakra or Lines of Qi so is hardly a new idea.
Now add in the Observer Effect which is maybe just Will on an unconscious level but now raised in energy by the focused Will to achieve a required outcome, then possibilities may be more obvious. It may be that this Unconscious Will is a scalar quantity while the Focussed Will is a Vector quantity – the first providing the power while the second provides a targeted direction.


Probability :

Where a Cause or Event or Action leads to many possible outcomes of varying probabilities, then the sum of these probabilities must = 1 i.e.

Action = Outcome1 [p1] + Outcome2 [p2] + ………….. Outcome n [pn]
Then p1 + p2 + ………………. pn = 1

So, in terms of magic, the outcomes already exist. What the practitioner is attempting to do is have an effect on the Probability of the desired outcome. There are several ways to bring this about. If you imagine that your desired outcome is hidden in a mass of other outcomes, then you could manipulate conditions to make the unwanted outcomes less likely. Alternatively, manipulate the desired outcome to increase its probability. In terms of Kinetics, the system containing the least energy is the most stable, so the best strategy is too decrease the background energy – this is akin to pruning a bush or tree.

Subjectivity :
Now bringing in the subjective nature of our observed world, the process stage that must be examined is Perception and the Action taken based on this perception, leading to an outcome.
To enable this to happen, requires an intensely focused Intent. Intent must be the anchor. It is vital that the practitioner has precision on Intent to provide a starting point.
As an aid to this, I suggest a short poem from Rudyard Kipling
“I kept six honest serving men,
They taught me all I knew,
Their names were What and Why and When,
And How and Where and Who.”
i.e the practitioner must have a precise understanding of his/her Intent.

Clearly, to achieve clarity of focus of Intent, it is vital that the practitioner has clarity of Mind to begin with which does suggest a level of expertise in meditation of some kind.

I see two forms of magic. Science + FON I would describe as High Ritual Magic, whereas FON + Intuition would be Low Magic. [FON = Force of Nature]

As I see it, the importance of Intent and Will would be different.
In High Ritual magic, the ritual itself would provide a channel for the Will, a type of pathway for the energy to follow.
In Low Magic, I see no clear path to follow, so the Will must act in co-operation with the FON i.e. in Low Magic there is a partnership with the Intent of FON so that you are adding the “tipping” energy
Perhaps Intent would be of higher importance in Low Magic than in High Magic with its internal guiding mechanism.
The best way I can think of to clarify the difference is that Low Magic works like a siphon – as if the FON wants you succeed by adding that small energy boost.
High Magic generally involves more complex, energy-rich ritual which essentially drives the process uphill, like a Archimedian Water Screw..


So, my argument is that the energy requirements are quite small if we accept that "magic" is a low probability event which already exists. So that the rituals in High Magic are providing a preferential channel for this low probability phenomena to manifest. In Low Magic, there is a hidden partner, the FON, which actually wants you to succeed. I also suspect that the Quiet Mind resulting from meditation releases energy by intensifying the Will and Intent.


[Of course I could just be an unfrocked mad scientist who wanders the hedgerows shouting at the sheep ]

*baffled, gets a stiff drink and starts that learning*

Originally Posted by norseman

[] "Magical occurences which defy such laws"

And that, LFH, is the key question. I would argue that there is no such denial, it all comes down to energy. This is the mechanism which I propose.

With these tools, I believe that an Irrational Logic [Fuzzy Science ! ] can be constructed to explain how magic works.

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle :
This observation and principle originally applied to Quantum Mechanics but has wider implications.
For example, it implies that Cause and Effect is also subject to uncertainty in that many effects are possible with varying degrees of Probability. Any suggestions made here MUST comply with the Laws of Conservation of Mass and Energy. To change the Effect in accord with the will of the practitioner seems to suggest that additional energy is added to the equation by the Will i.e. Will is a force in its own right.
In case this seems illogical, may I ask that you consider Gravity. The strongest force in the universe, yet so easily defeated by anyone of us picking an object from the floor.
Will is an application of Mind, and Mind is electrochemical in nature and so ought to be capable of transmission. Before this idea is rejected out of hand, I would remind you of Kirlian Photography which demonstrates an energy field around living objects. The concept has been studied for millennia as Chakra or Lines of Qi so is hardly a new idea.
Now add in the Observer Effect which is maybe just Will on an unconscious level but now raised in energy by the focused Will to achieve a required outcome, then possibilities may be more obvious. It may be that this Unconscious Will is a scalar quantity while the Focussed Will is a Vector quantity – the first providing the power while the second provides a targeted direction.


Probability :

Where a Cause or Event or Action leads to many possible outcomes of varying probabilities, then the sum of these probabilities must = 1 i.e.

Action = Outcome1 [p1] + Outcome2 [p2] + ………….. Outcome n [pn]
Then p1 + p2 + ………………. pn = 1

So, in terms of magic, the outcomes already exist. What the practitioner is attempting to do is have an effect on the Probability of the desired outcome. There are several ways to bring this about. If you imagine that your desired outcome is hidden in a mass of other outcomes, then you could manipulate conditions to make the unwanted outcomes less likely. Alternatively, manipulate the desired outcome to increase its probability. In terms of Kinetics, the system containing the least energy is the most stable, so the best strategy is too decrease the background energy – this is akin to pruning a bush or tree.

Subjectivity :
Now bringing in the subjective nature of our observed world, the process stage that must be examined is Perception and the Action taken based on this perception, leading to an outcome.
To enable this to happen, requires an intensely focused Intent. Intent must be the anchor. It is vital that the practitioner has precision on Intent to provide a starting point.
As an aid to this, I suggest a short poem from Rudyard Kipling
“I kept six honest serving men,
They taught me all I knew,
Their names were What and Why and When,
And How and Where and Who.”
i.e the practitioner must have a precise understanding of his/her Intent.

Clearly, to achieve clarity of focus of Intent, it is vital that the practitioner has clarity of Mind to begin with which does suggest a level of expertise in meditation of some kind.

I see two forms of magic. Science + FON I would describe as High Ritual Magic, whereas FON + Intuition would be Low Magic. [FON = Force of Nature]

As I see it, the importance of Intent and Will would be different.
In High Ritual magic, the ritual itself would provide a channel for the Will, a type of pathway for the energy to follow.
In Low Magic, I see no clear path to follow, so the Will must act in co-operation with the FON i.e. in Low Magic there is a partnership with the Intent of FON so that you are adding the “tipping” energy
Perhaps Intent would be of higher importance in Low Magic than in High Magic with its internal guiding mechanism.
The best way I can think of to clarify the difference is that Low Magic works like a siphon – as if the FON wants you succeed by adding that small energy boost.
High Magic generally involves more complex, energy-rich ritual which essentially drives the process uphill, like a Archimedian Water Screw..


So, my argument is that the energy requirements are quite small if we accept that "magic" is a low probability event which already exists. So that the rituals in High Magic are providing a preferential channel for this low probability phenomena to manifest. In Low Magic, there is a hidden partner, the FON, which actually wants you to succeed. I also suspect that the Quiet Mind resulting from meditation releases energy by intensifying the Will and Intent.


[Of course I could just be an unfrocked mad scientist who wanders the hedgerows shouting at the sheep ]

Hmmmmmmmmmm....... you've given me much to ponder here!! I must confess it's all a bit technical and over-my-head, since I'm one who primarily goes by gut feeling and the information that resonates from inside as my highest and deepest truth. In other words, compared to you I'm an intellectual light-weight! I'm sure if we were to sit opposite one another and discuss such things, you would be able to make your various points more clear to me. My husband was very much the "mad scientist" when I met him, and I the mystic. Over 22 years of blissfull union, we found those paths dove-tailing and interweaving until we were in exact accord :)

[norseman]

"if we were to sit opposite one another and discuss such things"

That would be nice LFH
Not really an intellectual heavyweight, just a retired academic contaminated by the "darkside"

Originally Posted by norseman

"if we were to sit opposite one another and discuss such things"

That would be nice LFH
Not really an intellectual heavyweight, just a retired academic contaminated by the "darkside"

Haaaaaaaaaa!!! I find your "contamination" delightful! It's always a pleasure to read your posts. They stimulate the brain cells and tickle the fancy! If we lived nearer to one another, I would propose hot beverages sipped by the fire (only because, oddly enough, it's rainy and cold here today!!) and a stimulating conversational exchange late into the night Alas, such is not possible. Mayhap you would like to come visit my blog some time and post some of your fascinating observations there. It's called Insights And Contemplations, and is meant to be a place of sharing of same I will PM you the link in case you're bored to tears some day and looking for something with which to engage..!

Hi guys, sorry I haven't responded in a long time.

I would recommend you go to Robert Bruce's site: http://www.astraldynamics.com and poke around, he has a book on amazon on psychic self defense. It would be a good thing for you to read. In the meantime, I offer this link on his essay on "Laurelle, The Ceremony and The Sword." Read it and learn how to call on YOUR sword and USE YOUR SWORD ON HER the next time that Bi### comes back!! Tell her she and her minions are NOT welcome and DON'T COME BACK. Call on the Arc Angel Michael to come and make sure these entities never come back, OR COME TO YOUR AID IF NEED BE. He will come to your aid, all you have to do is call him. You also might want to pick up Dion Fortune's book on Psychic Defense if it is still in print.

Also, before you go to bed tonight, call on Arch Angel Michael and Metatron and ask for angelic protection 24/7 around your house allowing only those entities that are of the light and your highest and best good through. Ask for angelic body guard protection 24/7 as well, for you and all family members, since witches dabbling in the dark arts are vindictive.

Here is the link to Robert's site on Psychic Security.

Please let us know how it goes.

Wow, I tried this and what happened was very interesting. I didn't get to use it on her though...in fact, now that every time I call on it, it seems to end my sleep paralysis.
I tried to imagine holding a sword, but I couldn't imagine it too well for some reason. I called on the being Archangel Michael and asked for my sword...I felt a powerful shaking rumbling that felt like it was rising up from underneath the ground, through me, and into my hand. I know it sounds kinda cheesy, but this is what happened! I looked at my hand and sure enough their was a small silvery sword in my hand. Pretty darn cool.

I had hoped what you were going through was some sort of soul mate thing, but fangs and biting... and then responding in a negative way to loving thoughts and feelings

It could be that the male spirit you saw was your etheric body. A lot of people claim that we have multiple vehicles (astral, etheric, mental, and whatever else). What did the male spirit look like? What area(s) of your sleeping body was the male spirit focusing on?

Here are some recent links I have found about using iron to ward off negative astral wildlife and spirits. It might be worth a try.

I think this has a lot to do with the exact same beings that I was having trouble with before, because they seem to be back along with a few new ones. I can't be sure though, because her behavior is different from theirs, seems more like a genuine human girl, rather than something faked. Right now, I have the feeling that she might be possessed in some way. That would make sense.

I don't think it was my own etheric body....I was already out of body, but her and this man were trying to do some sort of procedure. I don't know what...

I've also seen this man a few times and he does not like me at all..even though she seems to. She is saying that they're both the same person...and when she acts out of character, it's very sudden and unexpected. This is why I think she might be possessed by an evil spirit. I have a hard time describing the way the guy looks, because he likes to stay in my peripheral vision when out of body, and doesn't like me looking at him.

I have asked her to leave because she is causing a lot of trouble that I want nothing to do with. I could sense that she was extremely hurt and full of anxiety when I told her...and she hasn't left...

How do these things even find people to begin with?

ther is a HUGE difference between wicca witches and "witches".

Wicca was created in the 50s, its a revival on some old traditions, with some other things thrown in....

Witches, are the ones in the 1600s that got burned at the stake for their herb lore.

There is almsot no info on the old witches because they werent the cakling, cat having broom fling ones we think of, they were just the women who held on to pagan traditions such as earth worship, herb lore, and rituals.

Pretty much any pagan teaching, is conciderd "witchcraft"

witches were the terrorost (scapegoats) of the 1600s