Tantras.

[sky]

Did Buddha teach tantras ? I don't surpose we will ever know but they seem to be mystical and magical fairy stories to me... Am I missing something ?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

Did Buddha teach tantras ? I don't surpose we will ever know but they seem to be mystical and magical fairy stories to me... Am I missing something ?

Tantra is about energy work. Tantric practices are part of yoga and had been around for a long time before the Buddha came around.

Within Buddhism it was the Buddha Padmasambhava also known as Guru Rinpoche that brought the tantric practices to Buddhism. With that being said many traditions still trace tantra to the Buddha.

There is nothing fairytale about tantra.

"The same desirous energy that ordinarily propels us from one unsatisfactory situation is transmuted, through the alchemy of tantra, into a transcendental experience of bliss and wisdom. The practioner focuses the penetrating brilliance of this blissful wisdom so that it cuts like a laser beam through all false projections of this and that and pierces the very heart of reality." (Introduction to Tantra: A Vision of Totality [1987], p. 37)

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by sky123

Did Buddha teach tantras ? I don't surpose we will ever know but they seem to be mystical and magical fairy stories to me... Am I missing something ?

I saw the Chinese version of tantras and most of them criticize that it's an abuse religion. Totally not Buddhism. Buddha against those that tantras practice. It's a Hinduism before and after Buddha time and teaching. And it's against Buddha's admonition.......

[sky]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

I saw the Chinese version of tantras and most of them criticize that it's an abuse religion. Totally not Buddhism. Buddha against those that tantras practice. It's a Hinduism before and after Buddha time and teaching. And it's against Buddha's admonition.......

I myself could not believe the Buddha would have taught or practised tantra Jeremy, but who knows.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

I saw the Chinese version of tantras and most of them criticize that it's an abuse religion. Totally not Buddhism. Buddha against those that tantras practice. It's a Hinduism before and after Buddha time and teaching. And it's against Buddha's admonition.......

Do you have a link for that?

[jonesboy]

MAHAMATI SAID: Blessed One, tell us about the sustaining power of the Tathagatas by which the Bodhisattvas are aided to attain self-realisation of Noble Wisdom?

The Blessed One replied: There are two kinds of sustaining power, which issue from the Tathagatas and are at the service of the Bodhisattvas, sustained by which the Bodhisattvas should prostrate themselves before them and show their appreciation by asking questions. The first kind of sustaining power is the Bodhisattva's own adoration and faith in the Buddhas by reason of which the Buddhas are able to manifest themselves and render their aid and to ordain them with their own hands. The second kind of sustaining power is the power radiating from the Tathagatas that enables the Bodhisattvas to attain and to pass through the various Samadhis and Samapattis without becoming intoxicated by their bliss.

Being sustained by the power of the Buddhas, the Bodhisattva even at the first stage will be able to attain the Samadhi known as the Light of Mahayana. in that Samadhi Bodhisattvas will become conscious of the presence of the Tathagatas coming from all their different abodes in the ten quarters to impart to the Bodhisattvas their sustaining power in various ways. As the Bodhisattva Vajragarbha was sustained in his

p. 131

Samadhis and as many other Bodhisattvas of like degree and virtue have been sustained, so all earnest disciples and masters and Bodhisattvas may experience this sustaining power of the Buddhas in their Samadhis and Samapattis. The disciple's faith and the Tathagata's merit are two aspects of the same sustaining power and by it alone are the Bodhisattvas enabled to become one with the company of the Buddhas.

Whatever Samadhis, psychic faculties and teachings are realised by the Bodhisattvas, they are made possible only by the sustaining power of the Buddha

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/bb/bb16.htm

The sustaining power is energy, light that is transmitted.

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Tantra is about energy work. Tantric practices are part of yoga and had been around for a long time before the Buddha came around.

Within Buddhism it was the Buddha Padmasambhava also known as Guru Rinpoche that brought the tantric practices to Buddhism. With that being said many traditions still trace tantra to the Buddha.

There is nothing fairytale about tantra.

"The same desirous energy that ordinarily propels us from one unsatisfactory situation is transmuted, through the alchemy of tantra, into a transcendental experience of bliss and wisdom. The practioner focuses the penetrating brilliance of this blissful wisdom so that it cuts like a laser beam through all false projections of this and that and pierces the very heart of reality." (Introduction to Tantra: A Vision of Totality [1987], p. 37)

‘Three things shine openly, not in secret. What three? The orb of the moon, the orb of the sun and the Dhamma and discipline taught by the Tathàgata’ (Anguttara Nikaya I. 283). He reiterated this same point just before his final passing when he said; ‘I have proclaimed the Dhamma without any idea of a hidden and open teaching. I do not have the closed fist of the teacher who holds anything back’ (Digha Nikaya II. 100).


Tantra .....Secret initiations etc:..... It goes against what Buddha supposedly said above...

[RyanWind]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Tantric practices are part of yoga and had been around for a long time before the Buddha came around.

Within Buddhism it was the Buddha Padmasambhava also known as Guru Rinpoche that brought the tantric practices to Buddhism.

So the answer to Sky's question is Gautama Buddha did not teach Tantra?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by RyanWind

So the answer to Sky's question is Gautama Buddha did not teach Tantra?

My quotes shows that he did.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

‘Three things shine openly, not in secret. What three? The orb of the moon, the orb of the sun and the Dhamma and discipline taught by the Tathàgata’ (Anguttara Nikaya I. 283). He reiterated this same point just before his final passing when he said; ‘I have proclaimed the Dhamma without any idea of a hidden and open teaching. I do not have the closed fist of the teacher who holds anything back’ (Digha Nikaya II. 100).


Tantra .....Secret initiations etc:..... It goes against what Buddha supposedly said above...

There are many secret teachings within Buddhism.

If one is not ready they will get a false impression, wrong understanding. When one is ready then the teachings become available.

I do believe the Buddha taught based on ones capacity.