Revelations - about the "book of revelations"

[Gem]

Originally Posted by SeaZen

Having society govern what is "normal" is a very subjective and can be dysfunctional to the point of violence. Witness nazi germany. A better yardstick would be what is natural and un-natural as opposed to normalcy and disorderly.

Indeed - society does govern what is normal and that is subjective. Without normalcy there can't be order and without order there can't be civilisation, and so, all cultures have norms, which are very fragile and very easily disrupted - and despite this fragility, they are very difficult to change. In order to change norms, one has to introduce a new discourse and ensure it is socially sanctioned. The current discourse on the Arab, centrally focused now on IS as it was previously focused on Al Queada, is quite inane; it has deep rooted spiritual undertones and and expresses a hysterical anxiety.

agreed

Perhaps the story is simply based on duality, the struggle between the choice of the light and dark energy within

Yep, in the most basic symbolic terms that's the gig, and here we are with the pressures of influence upon our world views being agitated by hysterical distractions, and it becomes quite difficult to remain as the centre of ones conscious self. During the talks here I have caught myself responding reactively, like indignantly, on a couple of occasions, so I understand how easy it is to swept off by the tide.

For benefit to who and/or what?

That's a tricky question - so when people speak on an socially volitile issue like 'terror' (a word that strongly infers anxiety), who is speaking, what do they say and for what reason? This 'we the civilised' and 'they the monstrous' has very specific purposes and where we see the Name-of-lord-Jesus-Christ wielded as an instrument of influence, as we do on this forum, The Prophet and the Christ become mere icons to represent that within us that is darkness and light, and not one can deny that the anxiety that produces this kind of conflict is within the speaker himself, and his issue of words express that, and they do not express the peaceful disposition that is essential to de-escalation. Soz, quite an abstract response to your question, but I hope it means something.

All of our actions are responses to something that has occurred in the past The question is how will our responses affect a better outcome for ourselves and society in general.

Zactamondo!

Kind of like the mirroring and projection described in the venerable TF section of the forum! LOL! Actually you make a good point regarding the separation paradigm and the individual survival strategy that has plagued humankind.



I agree with your point when it comes to how we should behave in an equitable conscious society, but at this point world society is governed and controlled by powers who own the media, banks, government that subsequently control the social discourse for their own greedy evil ends. People are waking up due to the internet and social media and I hope it is sooner rather than later. The question is how can society become conscious and regain control of its own destiny over those who control the mainstream social discourse/media/government/finance?

Sure the power structures have the influence, and discourse need be sanctioned through their institutions. Foucault says there is no objective knowledge; knowledge becomes true when it is used to affect the world, and therefore, knowledge and power presuppose each other. This means the most prevalent discourse becomes the truth because it has the most influence on 'reality'. That why I incessantly draw attention to the narrative itself. Each person is only their own sensory experience and their response to it, and reality itself issues from that.

[Morpheus]

Revevelation lines up with prophesies in the Book of Daniel, written ages before.
Which are both about end of days time period.

[SeaZen]

Originally Posted by Gem

I The current discourse on the Arab, centrally focused now on IS as it was previously focused on Al Queada, is quite inane; it has deep rooted spiritual undertones and and expresses a hysterical anxiety.

Agreed, however, it is the elites that created IS and al-q with their policies and support and then intentionally tapped into this hysteria among the masses. This did not happen "naturally" or in a vacuum but via manipulation IMO.

Yep, in the most basic symbolic terms that's the gig, and here we are with the pressures of influence upon our world views being agitated by hysterical distractions, and it becomes quite difficult to remain as the centre of ones conscious self. During the talks here I have caught myself responding reactively, like indignantly, on a couple of occasions, so I understand how easy it is to swept off by the tide.

That is why many individuals pursue spirituality and engage in its practices...to not get swept away by the tides of hysterical distractions and to remain calm and centered

That's a tricky question - so when people speak on an socially volitile issue like 'terror' (a word that strongly infers anxiety), who is speaking, what do they say and for what reason? This 'we the civilised' and 'they the monstrous' has very specific purposes and where we see the Name-of-lord-Jesus-Christ wielded as an instrument of influence, as we do on this forum, The Prophet and the Christ become mere icons to represent that within us that is darkness and light, and not one can deny that the anxiety that produces this kind of conflict is within the speaker himself, and his issue of words express that, and they do not express the peaceful disposition that is essential to de-escalation. Soz, quite an abstract response to your question, but I hope it means something.

Yes it is a very abstract response to my question. You seemed to explain one of the processes they go through in determining how "benefit" is decided but it didn't really answer my question. I did understand and get meaning from it though!

Sure the power structures have the influence, and discourse need be sanctioned through their institutions. Foucault says there is no objective knowledge; knowledge becomes true when it is used to affect the world, and therefore, knowledge and power presuppose each other. This means the most prevalent discourse becomes the truth because it has the most influence on 'reality'. That why I incessantly draw attention to the narrative itself. Each person is only their own sensory experience and their response to it, and reality itself issues from that.

To use a phrase of yours, zactamundo! However, there is a deeper level to this. This begs the question, what energies are the knowledge and narrative based upon and what kind of response do these energies evoke in the masses as there is no "objective" knowledge? I posit that the energies the narratives and knowledge are constructed on are the energies of either light or dark and the only responses that are evoked are either love based responses or fear based responses. Its that simple.

It all goes back to the simple yet complicated choice and concept of duality. There is also the question of what are the motivations of the elite who control the media/finance and what type of energy to they wish to harness and what type of response do they wish to evoke in the masses and for what purpose

[windywherever]

Hi Pete,

Don't know if you are still watching this thread but I'd like to have a go at offering some thoughts on your dream/revelations.

They took ,like "fridge magnets" - you know,letters,numbers - and they formed a word on the wall in front of me.....Bizarrely,these little letters could be picked up one hand like normal,but as soon as they were placed on the wall,they became HUGE,like ten feet tall,neon flashing..For the life of me though I CANT READ THE WORD....So frustrating......

Whatever the "word" actually was,I disagreed,and was changing the letters to form a new word,saying to my parents "LOOK !! " - my Dad would just calmly rearrange them though back as they were......Now,I KNOW there is a link there...It seems to be part of this "inevitable,too late" morose feeling...I really wish I coud read that word - I can see everything else clearly - but the word itself is just a hazy light and seems gibberish to me - im not even sure its an English word...I cant hold the image long enough,but it seems like a Sanskrit glyph....Whatever it is,it is CRUCIAL

I found this part to probably be the most interesting. People often think of the bible as "the word of God" but the Bible itself doesn't say that. However, it does say that Jesus is the word of God (see John 1:1-14 and Revelation 19:13). Recognizing the authority of Jesus as THE word of God can be a pretty difficult challenge for most of us precisely because he said so many challenging things. It may be that there are areas where God wants you to get this lesson. The neon flashing seems to support this, like a "it should be obvious" kind of thing.

The thing about you wanting to change the order of the letters to something different seems to support this conclusion, too. It's pretty tempting to come up with convenient doctrines which end up supporting our personal biases rather than just dealing with the hard truth of what Jesus actually taught.

I was also wondering if the size of the words could indicate that your vision of prophecy may be too limited in size, too. For example, I'm thinking of this part...

The FOUR HORSEMEN that bring total domination and destruction to ONE QUARTER of the world - well,they are here NOW,roaming free - THE ISLAMIC RELIGION...The horsemen ARE the combined nation of Islam - all those countries share the SAME COLOURS,their religion,DOES dominate one quarterof the populaton RIGHT NOW - and crucially - sickeningly - they DO BEHEAD the followers of Christ and this has become the hallmark of thier jihad campaign...THIS is what defines the FIFTH SEAL - creating MARTYRS who await the end times to be fullfilled - martyrs it says,created SPECIFICALLY by the act of BEHEADING,execution for their NONE Islamic beliefs.....

In another part of your post you suggest the colors of the horses in your dream coincide with the colors of the Palestinian flag. You suggest the coincidence is enough to convince you that there is more than coincidence happening here. I believe God can work through coincidence but the coincidence still needs to be consistent with the bigger picture and what the scriptures actually say.

For example, the Revelation describes the first of the 4 horsemen as riding a white horse; he goes forth to conquer. Conquer who? The other three horsemen! Revelation 19:12 describes Jesus as riding a white horse. The last rider is described as death, and hell ( or the grave?) following with him. Paul says, "the last enemy to be destroyed is death" (1 Cor 15:26). Jesus is the answer to overcoming the other horsemen.

While it's true that radical Islam has been responsible for persecution of Christians in large numbers around the world, the persecution in the Revelation isn't a series of individual, isolated events. They are all part of a consistent period in history which are deeply interrelated. For example, how does the Mark of the Beast factor into your conclusion? What about Babylon and her destruction? The rebuilding of the temple? There's a fairly specific countdown of 7 years beginning with the rebuilding of the temple in Jerusalem.

There's also a strong theme to animal symbolism (from both the Revelation and Daniel) which just happen to represent major players in world politics today, and they aren't Arab countries. The Bear, Dragon, Eagle, Lion and Rooster are prominent. Those animals just happen to represent the 5 permanent members of the UN security counsel today.

Anyway, there's a lot more to prophecy than radical Islam. Focusing on one issue too much can cause us to miss the enormity of the bigger picture (i.e. you not being able to recognize the word despite how huge the letters are).

.A TRUMPET CALLS again...There is a sense now - of dread - forlorn,like a wasted chance...Too late..

This is also pretty interesting. It's consistent with Revelation 10:6-7. Verse 7 describes a special angel (despite all angels being somewhat special this guy still seems to shine!) who "swears that there should be time no more" just after the sounding of the 7th trumpet. These 7 trumpets are commonly referred to as the "trumpets of the Great Tribulation", with the 7th signifying the end of the GT and the return of Jesus in the clouds to gather together his people etc.. (see Mt 24:31, 1 Cor 15:52, 1 Thess 4:16).

It seems like, at the sounding of the 7th trumpet, that's it. There's no further opportunity for people to repent (if they'd even bother by that point), or, as you've suggested, "too late".

I look forward to hearing your comments on my interpretation.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by SeaZen

Agreed, however, it is the elites that created IS and al-q with their policies and support and then intentionally tapped into this hysteria among the masses. This did not happen "naturally" or in a vacuum but via manipulation IMO.

Oh yes. All pretty much by design.

That is why many individuals pursue spirituality and engage in its practices...to not get swept away by the tides of hysterical distractions and to remain calm and centered

It's a bit of act really. If the mods weren't tight as, you'd see the fear and hate speech explode. I spent a lot of time addressing the blame narratives - and in the end - mods just shut the whole section down. We're just nice by discipline when it comes down to it.

Yes it is a very abstract response to my question. You seemed to explain one of the processes they go through in determining how "benefit" is decided but it didn't really answer my question. I did understand and get meaning from it though!

Ethics is complicated. Hehahah.

To use a phrase of yours, zactamundo! However, there is a deeper level to this. This begs the question, what energies are the knowledge and narrative based upon and what kind of response do these energies evoke in the masses as there is no "objective" knowledge? I posit that the energies the narratives and knowledge are constructed on are the energies of either light or dark and the only responses that are evoked are either love based responses or fear based responses. Its that simple.

Certainly, emotive reaction has a lot to do with it, and the 'powers that be' are expert in this sort of psychology. But what we deal with is the division required for self identity. Where that division is, there is a conflict inside a person. I don't consider myself to be apart from the conflict of the world, but I also have a dilemma where if I act to oppose it, I become in conflict with conflict - what a mess - and that's the condition we see here.

It all goes back to the simple yet complicated choice and concept of duality. There is also the question of what are the motivations of the elite who control the media/finance and what type of energy to they wish to harness and what type of response do they wish to evoke in the masses and for what purpose

It can be framed in duality very aptly I agree. But we have an issue with choice - in itself is only the consequential conclusion of a thought process. People are very precious about choice, but there is trick to social liberty which I call 'give them choices and tell them they are free'. It seems to me that what we think of as our actions are more like reactions in disguise. I have no idea what drives the elite, but there is distinct lack of compassion, and an awfully perverse insanity afoot - but if you every listened to a madman explain his delusions, you find a very elaborate set of logic and reason, and it's actually quite easy to see how he comes to believe as he does. I talk to people on trains sometimes, and you tend to meet interesting folk whilst mobile.

What we have here is complete disarray of the real (that which can be observed in nature) and the imaginary (social emblems like religions countries etc) and at its centre is the imagined self struggling to preserve the dream and make it real.