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  #51  
Old 21-12-2019, 03:45 PM
ThatMan ThatMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Why not?

Jesus died and went to Hell for three days.

About what Hell ( ( there are many interpretations ) are you talking?

Jesus said to that man on the cross that they are going to be in Paradise in that very day.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
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Last edited by ThatMan : 21-12-2019 at 04:34 PM.
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  #52  
Old 31-12-2019, 01:03 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatMan
About what Hell ( ( there are many interpretations ) are you talking?

Jesus said to that man on the cross that they are going to be in Paradise in that very day.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The Apostle's Creed claims Jesus went to Hell for 3 days. You will see this in only the Roman Catholic version.
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He dipped the pen into the ink and then faltered for just a second. A tremor had gone through his bowels. To mark the paper was the decisive act. In small clumsy letters he wrote: ........... April 4th, 1984.
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  #53  
Old 04-02-2020, 08:35 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
There is no hell except the one your mind can make.

Well it's following the hell the minds of human kind makes, as we have free will in accordance with our available awareness. Willfully following the lower animal natures and worse. That word "mind" can be referring to two things, me or my subconscious thinking that bubbles up to my conscious awareness and all of that. Something I am ( I am divine love ) verses something I have created by identifying with negative energies, negative emotions and thoughts.

But yes whether we experience hell or not, is up to us. But then we may be karmically destined to hell like experiences here on earth. But we are talking about the afterlife hell.

In the afterlife, yes there is a "hell" where souls go that are messed up. But we are wholly responsible for being there. No "God" or "Devil" made such a place to punish. It exists's because some souls are trapped willingly (ignorance) in negative dark energies. They are full of hate, anger, ignorance, pride and on and on. Well they are not full of these things actually, they are deeply identified and attached to these things, these energies. Their experience is horrible and dark. One experiences their own created hate and fear.

Higher souls reach out to these souls trapped in their own hell and hopefully most eventually can get free and begin to see the light within us all. If not, these souls are erased of all personal identity and start over. Soul energy cannot be destroyed, but all personal identity can be cleared out of it.

None of this has anything to do with religious beliefs so being an atheist or believer in a God or religion has nothing to do with it. It's about how we behave, what we do, how we treat others and ourselves. If we willfully create pain and suffering in others. If we choose to identify with hate and anger in our lives. Anger in the sense of hate, some anger is ok and expected, normal. But just generally being a mean self-centered person, hating and harming others for entertainment, nurturing and dwelling in those energies, like a warm blanket, yea good luck where that leads!

But we get a lot of chances to be good. Karma and many incarnations. A soul that ends up in "hell" is severely messed up. I think I've met a few people that I would put close to that category. They are like dark energy wrecking balls. Their dark negative energies affect all around them.
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  #54  
Old 05-02-2020, 08:08 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
The Apostle's Creed claims Jesus went to Hell for 3 days. You will see this in only the Roman Catholic version.


Not true BJ, the ' Apostles Creed ' used in some Churches which are NOT Roman Catholic contain the words ' He descended into Hell '.
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  #55  
Old 09-02-2020, 08:04 AM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Not true BJ, the ' Apostles Creed ' used in some Churches which are NOT Roman Catholic contain the words ' He descended into Hell '.

I think that's actually wrong. I learn something new everyday!

I went to google and found this wiki page on the Apostles Creed. The word "hell" was not added until 2008 by the catholic church!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

In 2008 the Catholic Church published a new English translation of the texts of the Mass of the Roman Rite, use of which came into force at the end of 2011. It included the following translation of the Apostles' Creed:

2008 catholic changes- he descended into hell;

before 2008 - he descended to the dead.

the first version never uses hell either - from 3rd or 4th century Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Roman_Symbol

I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,
on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;
and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting)

but yea maybe some churches copied the catholic version now days
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  #56  
Old 09-02-2020, 09:10 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 8,142
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
I think that's actually wrong. I learn something new everyday!

I went to google and found this wiki page on the Apostles Creed. The word "hell" was not added until 2008 by the catholic church!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

In 2008 the Catholic Church published a new English translation of the texts of the Mass of the Roman Rite, use of which came into force at the end of 2011. It included the following translation of the Apostles' Creed:

2008 catholic changes- he descended into hell;

before 2008 - he descended to the dead.

the first version never uses hell either - from 3rd or 4th century Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Roman_Symbol

I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,
on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;
and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting)

but yea maybe some churches copied the catholic version now days







' I think that's actually wrong '


I don't think it's wrong, I know it's correct....


Other Religions use the words ' He descended into Hell ' previous to Roman Catholics.
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  #57  
Old 09-02-2020, 09:58 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 8,142
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' I think that's actually wrong '


I don't think it's wrong, I know it's correct....


Other Religions use the words ' He descended into Hell ' previous to Roman Catholics.





Presbyterian.

I BELIEVE in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.
Sixth or Seventh century, A. D. Version.




Lutheran.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy Christian Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.


Circa 1162. Version.
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  #58  
Old 09-02-2020, 11:18 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 3,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
I think that's actually wrong. I learn something new everyday!

I went to google and found this wiki page on the Apostles Creed. The word "hell" was not added until 2008 by the catholic church!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed

In 2008 the Catholic Church published a new English translation of the texts of the Mass of the Roman Rite, use of which came into force at the end of 2011. It included the following translation of the Apostles' Creed:

2008 catholic changes- he descended into hell;

before 2008 - he descended to the dead.

the first version never uses hell either - from 3rd or 4th century Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Roman_Symbol

I believe in God the Father almighty;
and in Christ Jesus His only Son, our Lord,
Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary,
Who under Pontius Pilate was crucified and buried,
on the third day rose again from the dead,
ascended to heaven,
sits at the right hand of the Father,
whence He will come to judge the living and the dead;
and in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Church,
the remission of sins,
the resurrection of the flesh
(the life everlasting)

but yea maybe some churches copied the catholic version now days

INTERESTING OBSERVATION!

The 'teaching' that Jesus 'went'/descended into hell is not a Bible based teaching. This made up teaching was 'added' later.


Next, which versions of the Apostles Creed are accurate to a particular faith?

If a version is dated before the existence of the faith, you can be assured those versions are in err. For example, Martin Luther was born in 1483 (9 years before Christopher Columbus sailed to America). It is hard to believe that the Lutheran faith would adopt a version of the Apostles Creed that predated the Lutheran faith's conception by over 3 and centuries.
__________________
..
.

He dipped the pen into the ink and then faltered for just a second. A tremor had gone through his bowels. To mark the paper was the decisive act. In small clumsy letters he wrote: ........... April 4th, 1984.
..................
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-02-2020, 01:10 PM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 8,142
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
INTERESTING OBSERVATION!

The 'teaching' that Jesus 'went'/descended into hell is not a Bible based teaching. This made up teaching was 'added' later.


Next, which versions of the Apostles Creed are accurate to a particular faith?

If a version is dated before the existence of the faith, you can be assured those versions are in err. For example, Martin Luther was born in 1483 (9 years before Christopher Columbus sailed to America). It is hard to believe that the Lutheran faith would adopt a version of the Apostles Creed that predated the Lutheran faith's conception by over 3 and centuries.



The Apostles Creed is commonly thought to have developed from Regla Fidei, ( Rule of faith) a brief summary of Christian belief thought to be associated with Baptism. These rules of faith can be traced back to at least the 2nd century, and hints of them appear even earlier, such as in Ignatius (d. 110).

It was adapted and used by Various Religions over time, regardless of when it was first written.
So yes Lutherans as did some other Religions use the Version which contains the words ' He descended into Hell ' some missed this out.....
Hope that helps your confusion.
BTW, Lutherans use the Three Creeds in their Worship...... All predate their Denomination.





' Next, which versions of the Apostles Creed are accurate to a particular faith? '

None as they are Adapted to suit.... They sometimes change over time, as did the Roman Catholic Version....
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