Buddhism and kundalini

[Gem]

Originally Posted by django

Personally I prefer to play a more active role in removing my conditioning, but I am not coming from a Buddhist perspective.

I am slowly learning about Buddhism's perspective and descriptions though, and I deeply appreciate the wisdom therein.

Yes, there are things one can do, and to understand the Buddhist tenets could be a valuable contribution to that life path.

[running]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

Well silence is an idea and no ideas are there, so it is not about silence at all. It's not really about a loss of identity unless you think your thoughts and conditioning are your identity.

didnt we go through this already. im not here for a philosophical debate about words, defintions of, and or word play. life is to short for that for me.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

to go with your ' New World Buddhism '.....

It's called Mahayana..

Nothing new world about it.

Why your constant need to attack the traditions is beyond me.

Remember, I am not a Buddhist nor do I practice anything Buddhist. I am just posting links and telling you what the traditions believe.

Without disparaging any tradition or belief system.

If you have an account at DharmaWheel. Here is a very interesting thread.

Kundalini Awakening vs Buddhist Awakening

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=11435

[running]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

Silence and loss of identity, no you stated these beliefs of yours for the first time in your post #119. Prior to you bringing up these ideas of yours, they were not mentioned or discussed.

POST #119

they are merely words describing an experience. if you dont know what silence means perhaps look it up.

[jonesboy]

Wouldn't silence be part of the Heart Sutra.

Void=Form and Form=Void.

Void being silence.

Also, as one progresses along the path, ones clarity can be shared with others.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

It's called Mahayana..

Nothing new world about it.

Why your constant need to attack the traditions is beyond me.

Remember, I am not a Buddhist nor do I practice anything Buddhist. I am just posting links and telling you what the traditions believe.

Without disparaging any tradition or belief system.

If you have an account at DharmaWheel. Here is a very interesting thread.

Kundalini Awakening vs Buddhist Awakening

https://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=11435

Some quotes from that link on the Buddhism working with energy/kundalini.

Lama Yeshe:

Among the realizations...many people are interested in tantra realizations, very high tantra realizations like Six Yogas of Naropa, chakra, wind meditations, generating heat in the body from tummo meditation, so forth, kundalini, the bliss, the kundalini bringing up and down, which even Hindus can do that. So nothing particular. Without compassion these things can become cause, not only cause of samsara, but even the cause of the lower realms if it’s done with attachment clinging to this life. So without the motivation of compassion even one do get some experiences, some powerful experience of those in the section of the graduated completion path but without compassion it becomes nothing special.

So it’s like, [pause] Tibetans always use the example this cheese, the dry cheese with lots of butter, so real taste is from the butter. What makes ice cream delicious is by what, cream or by sweet? [Student: Both.] Anyway, whatever makes the ice cream delicious. So, without that. Or like cake, something, butter and those sweet, whatever it is, that makes flavor, interesting the flavor, so like that. So the compassion makes everything worthwhile and rich, all those experiences rich, meaningful, cause of enlightenment. It protects you, yeah, protects you falling into the lower nirvana, falling, become cause of reincarnating in samsara again and even particular the lower realms.

Also, as I mentioned last time, I gave a few examples how this is the answer for everything, all the problems that one has in the life, I said bodhicitta, good heart, is the solution for everything.

Lama.Yeshe:

Control of kundalini energy (=libido, sexual energy, naga energy) is important even in ordinary orgasm. You cannot have a perfect orgasm if you cannot control your energy. It is the same in tantra. You cannot experience perfect bliss if you cannot control your energy. The fact is that if we lose our energy, we have to energy to utilize. In order to use energy, we need energy. If we don't have it, we cannot use it. This is logical, and you can see it clearly from your own experience. When you concentrate well and control your energy, you can experience more bliss, which you then unify with the wisdom of nonduality.

If kundalini starts to flow uncontrollably during your meditation and you begin to experience orgasm, try as much as possible to hold it and have it expand inside the secret chakra. Try to hold the energy there as long as possible. The longer you can hold it, the more pleasure you will experience and the more possibility you will have of utilizing that pleasure by unifying it with the universal reality of nonduality. In this way, you learn to control your body as well as your mind.

Chogyam Trungpa:

Student: Rinpoche, could you tell us how guna is connected with spaciousness and how all that is connected with the chakras?

Vidyadhara: Guna, well guna is another type of intelligence, seems to be. It is similar to the intelligence or the feeling of earth, at the beginning, because guna is connected with earth as well as space. The color is yellow, a gold color. In other words, in regard to the sharpness of the chitta and the intelligence--in order not to get carried away with the excitement of the intelligence, guna brings it down, regulates the whole thing together, and then transfers its process to action, or karma. So guna, in this case, acts as a scale. It has all the qualities of the other elements. It has the intelligence as well as the particular qualities of sanity.

According th the yoga tradition as well, in the visualization of the chandali and in kundalini practice, when the chandali flame is raised up in the navel chakra, that's the most dangerous time because it's the junction of all the nadis. It's the most dangerous point, how to relate to it. So one must develop guna in this case to even out and work with everything in a very even principle, because there's the likelihood of losing ground.
Guna is the space quality. In other words, guna is the space of earth itself. It is not space space, which is the intelligence in this case, but the space of earth. Guna is the regulator which evens out and balances the whole situation. It seems to be quite dangerous, this process of working with energy, like chandali practice. You're playing with energy. If you don't work properly with the guna principle, then there's the possibility of distorting all the nadi systems into imperfection. So guna is, therefore, space---space which fills every gap, space which divides the relationship of this to that, like the space in our everyday life. There are a lot of things that we could go into details about, but we don't seem to have enough time.

Some very interesting stuff

[jonesboy]

Chapter 8, p. 349-50 of Longchenpa's Precious Treasury of Philosophical Systems:

In lower systems of secret mantra approach, the entrance of motile energy [prana] and mind from the rasana and lalana channels into the central channel initiates an experience of timeless awareness that is blissful, lucid and nonconceptual. Although this awareness is held to be innate, the process in itself does not undermine the basis of all ordinary experience and the eight avenues of consciousness. The sensation of bliss is the non-conceptual basis of all ordinary experience (within which the coordinating mental faculty and the afflictive aspect of consciousness [6th & 7th consciousness] have not differentiated). The slight degree of simple pristine lucidity that is experienced is consciousness as the basis of all ordinary experience. The manifestation of visual forms, sounds, and so forth-- the five obvious kinds of sense objects -- to their respective sense faculties and consciousnesses constitutes the five sense consciousnesses. If all the foregoing are not undermined, one is not free of samsara, because one is not yet free of samsaric mind. This method of practice is no different from the process described in a source of the Samkhya school:

Impulse, density, and lightness
Merge in equal measure at the core of the three chakras,
And so there is a lucid nonconceptual state.
Primal matter and soul become one nature;
Herein lies ultimate reality,
Truly reflected in the fundamental structure of he body.
The movement of motile energy subsides within the central channel;
The experience is one of lucidity, nonreferential and unwavering.
This is the so-called "soul," suchness as a state of freedom.
It cannot be destroyed or overcome, but is eternal.

Such methods do not bring about freedom, only a particular state of meditative stability, a state of mind that brings about rebirth in the realm of formlessness. According to these lower tantric systems, the joy arising from the channels, subtle energies, and bindu "blending as one taste" is what is meant by the experience of genuine being. It is held that the motile energies and essences enter the central channel from the rasana and lalana channels and so release blockages in the central channel, with the release of each blockage leading to the experience of a corresponding quality of enlightenment. But such methods give rise to many impediments and perceptions based on confusion, because the motile energies associated with the six classes of beings enter the corresponding radiating channels [chakras]. The keypoint, then, is that there are numerous situations in which one might go astray.

In the approach of the vajra heart essence, the subtle energies settle into a natural state of quiescence, and so need not be made to enter the central channel. When the subtle energies in the individual radiating channels [chakras] have naturally become pure, the subtle energy of timeless awareness in the channels of light is inherently lucid and in its natural state. One perceives the pure visions of timeless awareness, consisting of enlightened forms [deities], light, pure realms, and so forth, rather than manifestations of confusion. It is posited that there is "freedom" once the power of the channel of light within the central channel has increased, gradually causing blockages in the latter channel to dissolve into light [are seen as empty forms]. The qualities of enlightenment associated with the spiritual levels are experienced as awareness's own manifestations.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Wouldn't silence be part of the Heart Sutra.

Void=Form and Form=Void.

Void being silence.

Also, as one progresses along the path, ones clarity can be shared with others.

i hope this isnt taken the wrong way. im just sharing my perspective.

i dont know or understand the purpose of reading about somebody elses interpretation of their experience such as the lotus sutra

if somebody reads something or thinks something continually. that will be programmed into their mind.

all religions do this to get the product they want

thats what i see so i avoid it for the most part.

i try to only go by my own experience.

reading the bliss and silence explains everything but to the individual.

you can feel something that a book couldnt describe.

everything written down is counterfeit and people are trying to match their experience to it. which is a bit ridiculious imo.

im not trying to stop anybody and yourself from reading things. im just sharing my perception since it was brought up.

thanks for bringing up silence being shared. divine current can as well. my path is simply tuning into deepee depths of divine current. for me silence is a byproduct. sorta like a stream that flows stays clean.

[Ground]

Originally Posted by running

i dont know or understand the purpose of reading about somebody elses interpretation of their experience such as the lotus sutra

if somebody reads something or thinks something continually. that will be programmed into their mind.

all religions do this to get the product they want

thats what i see so i avoid it for the most part.

i try to only go by my own experience.

[running]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Some quotes from that link on the Buddhism working with energy/kundalini.

Lama Yeshe:







Some very interesting stuff

some of this stuff your posting i must say sounds helpful. i guess for me some of it is. and some stuff doesnt seem so much.

i like the stuff that describes the functions and energy. the philosophical how i am to be as a person i take as like programming.