Attention mechanics

[Lazarus72]

Ok sorry Din, I misinterpreted.

There's still a temptation to make a reference to the adage, 'if we knew that we knew nothing then at least we would know something'.....but I'll take it in the spirit it's intended.

I'm with Andrew though, it's a nice aspiration but with regard to present moment awareness even one word, one thought is too much. I don't think it's as simple as detachment from beliefs and meaning as I expect these things to be intrinsic to interaction itself and certainly modern world living. I think like it or not we may have to engage in degrees of ignorance in our current form in order to avoid unnecessary suffering.

I accept I could be wrong though.

what if you knew nothing whatsoever?

what if you lived as total innocence

Do you think you operate like this btw? Do you think you've apprehended and integrated it. Coz I think the world would eat you up and you may be sitting in the gutter right now. Sounds romantic. Perhaps Buddhist monks or yogi in medatitive states having meals unobtrusively pushed near them can get to this, but IMO going to bookshops and forums expounding the virtues of non-self centredness and just stating you dont believe what you say or it doesn't necessarily hold as true from one moment to the next probably isn't gonna cut the mustard.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you coming, hehe, and I'm not saying it's not the way forward. Just that it'd be a bumpy ride.

Originally Posted by andrew g

If only the death of smugness required seeing our own self centered way of seeing and thinking. Although this 'seeing' might be helpful it is by no means the end of the story (or the smugness).

I think it is possible for us to be just as smug in our so called 'enlightened' seeings as it is in our 'unenlightened' seeings. Even 'I know nothing' can be turned into smugness.

I like the nature of your aspiration din, but I think your aspirations are beyond what is currently possible. Like it or not, we cant help but be a bit smug sometimes (did I say that very smugly?)

one thing that fascinates me is that:

any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking

so with regard to your statement above

you have pretty well set up a reality where there's no end to the smugness or the story, or at least it will linger for quite a while

is this true?

it's really amazing when you become aware of your thinking

and you realize you're making it all up as you go along

Originally Posted by Lazarus72

Ok sorry Din, I misinterpreted.

There's still a temptation to make a reference to the adage, 'if we knew that we knew nothing then at least we would know something'.....but I'll take it in the spirit it's intended.

I'm with Andrew though, it's a nice aspiration but with regard to present moment awareness even one word, one thought is too much. I don't think it's as simple as detachment from beliefs and meaning as I expect these things to be intrinsic to interaction itself and certainly modern world living. I think like it or not we may have to engage in degrees of ignorance in our current form in order to avoid unnecessary suffering.

I accept I could be wrong though.




Do you think you operate like this btw? Do you think you've apprehended and integrated it. Coz I think the world would eat you up and you may be sitting in the gutter right now. Sounds romantic. Perhaps Buddhist monks or yogi in medatitive states having meals unobtrusively pushed near them can get to this, but IMO going to bookshops and forums expounding the virtues of non-self centredness and just stating you dont believe what you say or it doesn't necessarily hold as true from one moment to the next probably isn't gonna cut the mustard.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate you coming, hehe, and I'm not saying it's not the way forward. Just that it'd be a bumpy ride.

the point for me is, there's no one here who would need to apprehend or integrate anything

that is just the story

what is the story appearing in?

what is this presence of awareness that is totally free of any story and just being the space for all thoughts and identification with them to occur

(that isn't true btw, it's just another thought!)

(i have to be careful about what i say because any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking)

i can't claim to be it, to be integrating it, to be apprehending it

what i could say, that comes closest to it, is that all there is is THAT

and then there's the thought or imagination of being a someone who can apprehend or integrate something

there's nothing at all that needs to be done here

everything simply is as it is

and any need to do anything or accomplish something is just as perfect as any other part of it

coming to a complete standstill means letting everything be the way it is

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by din

one thing that fascinates me is that:

any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking

so with regard to your statement above

you have pretty well set up a reality where there's no end to the smugness or the story, or at least it will linger for quite a while

is this true?

it's really amazing when you become aware of your thinking

and you realize you're making it all up as you go along

Yes din, in my reality there is no end to the smugness for a while. In my reality I also cant turn myself into a tree or the sun right now. I also cant teleport and I also cant know exactly what you are thinking and feeling. I also cant be in two places at once, and neither can I click my fingers and solve world hunger. Neither can I put an end to all the wars.

Do you get what Im saying? At some point we have to acknowledge the limitations of this reality, or earth, or dimension if we want to put an end to the majority of our struggling. What I have come to see din is that peace is about keeping one eye inside and one eye outside. What I have also come to see is that this earth is one which is characterized by struggle, seeking, efforting, doing. We cant get away from that totally, even though you would like to. Achieving what you want may be possible in a couple of years, but not yet. A bit of patience is required. What this earth is fundamentally teaching us is infinite patience.

[andrew g]

Originally Posted by din

the point for me is, there's no one here who would need to apprehend or integrate anything

that is just the story

what is the story appearing in?

what is this presence of awareness that is totally free of any story and just being the space for all thoughts and identification with them to occur

(that isn't true btw, it's just another thought!)

(i have to be careful about what i say because any thought i think is perpetuating the reality i'm thinking)

i can't claim to be it, to be integrating it, to be apprehending it

what i could say, that comes closest to it, is that all there is is THAT

and then there's the thought or imagination of being a someone who can apprehend or integrate something

there's nothing at all that needs to be done here

everything simply is as it is

and any need to do anything or accomplish something is just as perfect as any other part of it

coming to a complete standstill means letting everything be the way it is

''I have to be careful''.

Why? What are you scared will happen if you are not? That you will slip into identification? You already are identifying. Its unavoidable. How about you stop taking yourself so seriously and allow yourself to be as identified with everyone else on the planet...after all....whats the big deal?

[Gem]

Nothing needs to end it'll probably get worse in a couple of years. There is war and smugness, greed, hurt and much unpleasantry... well that's the way it is.

[sound]

Originally Posted by din

no, no, no

the smugness has nothing to do with these posts

[the smugness is] us thinking we know something in our life

[the smugness is] our own self-centered way of seeing and thinking

[when] we can see that for what it is

[then] that is freedom from it

So you know about smugness din lol ... does that make you just as smug as your mates?

[sound]

Also ... is smugness linked to 'what we know? ...' or ... is it more about attitudes and how we express/act surrounding what we know? (in each moment of course lol) ... who knows lol

[andrew g]

I would say smugness is thinking we know something. It cant be avoided though. There we go, there's some more smugness hehe.

Edit...or thinking we are right about something....its the same thing to me.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by andrew g

I would say smugness is thinking we know something. It cant be avoided though. There we go, there's some more smugness hehe.

So we notice a trait of humans and we name it 'smug', who cares?

Din says it's this and it's that but it's just silliness. Everyone knows what 'smug' refers to, it happens like there happens to be grass in your front yard.