Isolation

[Starman]

There is absolutely no valid reason for people to go into a school, church, Movie Theater,
or other place in America and start shooting other people, bystanders, people in church praying,
moviegoers, or students getting an education, because they feel they have been treated badly.

This is not a political discussion, and I do not want to make this about guns, but my heart is
heavy after hearing, once again, about a school shooting, this time in Santa Fe, Texas. Yesterday
I was reading an article about how about 50% or more of Americans feel isolated, lonely, or unappreciated.

Here is a link to that article.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-just-...154520606.html

By this article, it appears that a lot of Americans do not know how to get their emotional needs met.
The people who commit these shootings usually have a story about them being isolated, bullied,
emotionally devalued, or something similar. It is Spiritual Forums policy to not get into political issues,
such as guns, etc.

My having worked in the healthcare field for about 40-years, I see this as a mental health issue,
or a spiritual health issue. We can pray and send out positive vibes to our community, country,
and the world, and in my opinion that will definitely help.

But the whole issue of people feeling isolated and blaming others for their isolation, is another matter.
I live alone but I do not feel isolated, and do not get lonely. Primarily because of the spiritual connection
I have been blessed to develop over the decades.

I feel most people have to go through hell to get to heaven, but a lot of people get stuck in hell. Hell being
those horrible things that we have consciously or unconsciously stuffed down inside of ourselves. You have
got to face your demons in order to get to heaven.

It seems there is more depression and loneliness in America today than I can recall ever.
Some blame it on social media and a lack of real face-to-face contact with people. An of course there are
a lot of other reason given, but the bottom-line is that people have got to learn how to deal with their
own feelings no matter what those feelings may be.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Starman

And of course there are a lot of other reason given, but the bottom-line is that people have got to learn how to deal with their own feelings no matter what those feelings may be.

It strikes me that the 'American' cultural ethos is based on a belief (affirmation?) of what is thought of as a 'God given' right (like the 'right' to bear arms) to 'freely' pursue "Life, Liberty' and Happiness" - which fundamentally results in people being competitive (in 'pursuit' of said 'goal' - which in turn results in there being lonely 'winners' and 'losers' in said 'pursuit' - with the 'losers' feeling 'aggrieved' and wanting (desiring? aspiring to?) to 'redress' said 'grievancse'. [Redress, as in 'redressing' injustices, etc.].

The 'trouble' will continue to become more pronounced as said 'American' 'dream' continues to 'play'[ itself 'out' in a kazillion ways (senseless/mass 'killings' are just one such way - its done piecemeal, though many more 'die' at others hands elsewhere, in Chicago, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.).

It will only end when and as said 'American' values, which I think means 'America' and others as 'countries' bite the 'dust' - which given the 'Capitalists' aversion to 'socialism' IMO ain't gonna happen 'till all of the proverbially 'greedy' (for SELF-fulfillment!) chickens which have been set loose in the above regard come 'home' to roost'.

I suggest you 'grieve' for all that's going to happen in the above regard ahead of time (and focus on what Love and Joy there IS - there's plenty of THAT going around) because the 'hells' that are coming in the above regards are (IMO) already 'in the cards', i.e. inevitable. Let your 'dream' of what America could/should be 'die' in other words. In this regard, I have already fully 'cried' my'self' 'out'!

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by Starman

There is absolutely no valid reason for people to go into a school, church, Movie Theater,
or other place in America and start shooting other people, bystanders, people in church praying,
moviegoers, or students getting an education, because they feel they have been treated badly.

This is not a political discussion, and I do not want to make this about guns, but my heart is
heavy after hearing, once again, about a school shooting, this time in Santa Fe, Texas. Yesterday
I was reading an article about how about 50% or more of Americans feel isolated, lonely, or unappreciated.

Here is a link to that article.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-just-...154520606.html

By this article, it appears that a lot of Americans do not know how to get their emotional needs met.
The people who commit these shootings usually have a story about them being isolated, bullied,
emotionally devalued, or something similar. It is Spiritual Forums policy to not get into political issues,
such as guns, etc.

My having worked in the healthcare field for about 40-years, I see this as a mental health issue,
or a spiritual health issue. We can pray and send out positive vibes to our community, country,
and the world, and in my opinion that will definitely help.

But the whole issue of people feeling isolated and blaming others for their isolation, is another matter.
I live alone but I do not feel isolated, and do not get lonely. Primarily because of the spiritual connection
I have been blessed to develop over the decades.

I feel most people have to go through hell to get to heaven, but a lot of people get stuck in hell. Hell being
those horrible things that we have consciously or unconsciously stuffed down inside of ourselves. You have
got to face your demons in order to get to heaven.

It seems there is more depression and loneliness in America today than I can recall ever.
Some blame it on social media and a lack of real face-to-face contact with people. An of course there are
a lot of other reason given, but the bottom-line is that people have got to learn how to deal with their
own feelings no matter what those feelings may be.

Thats it i think to, people need to do the inner work, deep shadow work, being completely honest with there selves, looking at themselves, there lives and making it better for themselves an those around them, most people don't even know that, that is actually a thing! like the general population just think they act the way they act because of there personality, thats part of it but theres still peoples wounds and stuff and things that have happend in there life, or beliefs in there minds messing them up..

People need to have some self respect, Self-respect: From the Latin prefix re: “again” and the Latin verb spectare “to look at” “to take another look at oneself”

"In order to be effect, truth must be penetrated like an arrow, and that is likely to hurt" -Wei wu wei

When an earlier trauma has been suppressed and buried into the subconscious mind. Instead of being confronted, dealt with, and healed such trauma could take the form of feeling inadequately.

fear, F.E.A.R = Forget everything and run, or Face everything and rise.

Confidence is very important too its a good thing to have, some people may say oh thats being in your ego, thats being cocky, no its not.. you can have confidence without being a d!ckhead to others. Some people are stuck in victim mode, blaming, apathy or dishing out excuses... instead of being in full blown warrior/conquer life mode!

[weareunity]

Hello Starman and David and all. I believe that everybody needs a certain measure of a sense of personal significance in order to function healthily as a--in our case--human being, emotionally, mentally, socially, and physically. The need is so fundamental in my view that it is actually an affirmation of being, existing. With the good fortune of wise and compassionate guidance by virtue of an understanding of this fundamental need by carers/family/parents/society/ in the formative years this need is met. If this need is not met then the person with that continuing and unfulfilled need will naturally seek others ways of feeling significant. This will often be sought by means of relative measure, that is to say, seeking to become more significant in particular areas than others. The areas chosen are likely to be areas of importance to the peer group within which the individual is obliged to function. Amongst younger persons dominance, popularity, ability to provide, are some examples of possible areas of importance. In the event of not bring able to find this necessary significance, either by being actually unable to do so, or perhaps by having attempts to do so rejected, --quite possibly (and if so ironically) by others of the peer group working on maintaining their own relative significance-- then the disturbed mind in such great need may well come to feel that the only course open is to become significant by becoming infamous by taking the lives of others.

It is indeed unfortunate that the seeking of relative significance has become entrenched though somewhat disguised and indeed lauded as necessary ambition in some business models, and the simple fact that the only way in which true significance can be transferred from one to another is through the way of loving compassion has become to be seen as liberal fluffiness,--unlikely to make a profit and unlikely to move you up the significance ladder within such environment. This entrenchment has tragic consequences of course--as we witness with great sorrow.

Good wishes. petex

[Starman]

David, thank you for your contribution to this topic. I also see this as a cultural issue, filled with many of the things you have mentioned, and unfortunately, our society just may have to become totally decimated beyond belief before there is an awakening to a healthier paradigm. But my sensitivity is such that I will continue to grieve. It is one thing to watch this from afar and another to know people who are victims of this carnage.

Nature Grows, my having worked in the counseling profession, I witnessed how most people do not actually want to do the required work on themselves; most are looking for a quick fix, a pill or technique, that will give them instant relief. Probably because the work of self-transformation can be hard and it takes time. So for the most part, people generally will treat symptoms instead of digging to get at the causes. For most of us, the real work of transformation will take a lifetime.

petex, thanks for your sharing. What you shared about significance is interesting, but I think too many people get their significance from the entertainment industry. They want to be like someone who has a lot of fans, money, and gets a lot of attention, and as you have stated, unfortunately some do feel like negative attention is better than no attention at all. I was reading about this most recent shooting in Texas and the shooter, a 17-year old, told police that he did not shoot the people he liked because he wanted them to live and tell his story. It’s like ego run amuck.

P.S. I have seen hundreds of people die, most in very horrible ways; carried a dead baby in my arms once who was summed up as a "causality of war." I thought I'd put all of that behind me, the Vietnam War, etc., but like those who survived school shootings in the past, this most recent school shooting bought that past back up to the present. Something more that I need to work on within myself. Yes, unconditional love is the answer.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Starman

P.S. I have seen hundreds of people die, most in very horrible ways; carried a dead baby in my arms once who was summed up as a "causality of war." I thought I'd put all of that behind me, the Vietnam War, etc., but like those who survived school shootings in the past, this most recent school shooting bought that past back up to the present. Something more that I need to work on within myself. Yes, unconditional love is the answer.

Ahhh! Ouch!

[LiberatedLotus]

To be honest, I don't believe there is a
fundamental purpose for darkness
( of any shade, degree ) that manifests
on this planet. I feel the darkness that
continues to exist in the aggregate is a direct
result of the individual that fails to master their
being & ascend into the light.

This behavior could be the result of many factors
including chemical/biological, psychological,
environmental, spiritual, etc.

But man has free will.

Myself, as everyone else, are subject to these
conditions in one form or another.

I've battled every deplorable condition most
could resonate with: poverty, drug/alcohol
abuse in the family, violence, psychological & physical
impairments, genetics, abuse in every
form imaginable- physical, emotional/psychological/
spiritual, series of traumas/lifetimes of pain
& suffering, etc.

NEVER, once, have I fell into darkness.
Never once have I compromised
my principles/standards/morals/character.
Never once have I fell to such a level to
inflict harm on another. Or myself.
Never once have I used my "hardships"
& "misfortunes" / challenges as an excuse.

It's not an excuse. There never is.
An excuse is the failure of the
individual to rise above their
conditions. It's a cop out.
It's powerlessness & cowardice.

It's ironic because I always take
the responsibility and shoulder
the burdens of others, even the
world, because I intimately
understand the struggles of
man on every level, deeply.

But looking back at my own trails,
there is never a justifiable excuse
to create such conditions in this
world. Ever.

Unfortunately, most never awake to
their potential or their innate power/s
end up locking thenselves & the
rest of the world into these
cycles.

[Nature Grows]

Originally Posted by Starman

P.S. I have seen hundreds of people die, most in very horrible ways; carried a dead baby in my arms once who was summed up as a "causality of war." I thought I'd put all of that behind me, the Vietnam War, etc., but like those who survived school shootings in the past, this most recent school shooting bought that past back up to the present. Something more that I need to work on within myself. Yes, unconditional love is the answer.

Yea thats it, i wasn't saying im perfect as well by my post, just that, that is the answer, or my answer.

Just before i was on facebook, and have seen by someones post that in five days the yulin dog meat festival in china is taking place, many people have been signing petitions and stuff trying to get this to be stopped.. i went and watched some videos about this festival and i was disgusted.. these people are skinning dogs alive, boiling them alive, pinning them down an putting a blow torch to them, taking pictures and laughing..... very, very messed up, i was thinking these Chinese people are demons walking the earth, it looked like a real lot of people are trying to stop that event even some Chinese people.. so sometimes its good to blame and tell people what they are doing is wrong, greater good can come from it..

But i did get angry about this, then i was reminded about a paragraph from a book i once read, where a guy who was a Sadhu in India saw a place were animals were being killed and he was mad and was going to curse all the people there, then a voice spoke to him (some spiritual being) and told him that those animals only have a few hours or days of suffering then they are free from the earth, he agreed with the voice and stopped getting so worked up about it but still didn't like it.

I am not saying that people should not take a stand for in justice and cruelty though, im just sharing that, we are the creators of this world as a whole if we allow stuff to happen then it continues to happen. If we contribute to harmful things, we may have to deal with it sooner or later maybe in the outer world or within ourselves.

However.. i think im getting a little bit off topic, yes we have inner work to do, Starman even though all that stuff has come up for you about your past in the war, at least you have not projected it onto another, at least you know to be there for yourself through that and work through it, many people just don't know what to do with things like that hence the topic of this thread.

This whole human race needs a massive purge, could you image if everyone just had all there stuff come up for them to deal with, it would be good, some chaos may happen though, for those in the spiritual community who believe/feel the earth is "ascending" or more of humanity is waking up or there are energies coming in on the planet at times, what ever you want to call it this does/can bring stuff up for people too, a lot of people are just hurt or upset about something and they are like someone hurt me so im gonna hurt someone or something else instead of being responsible and deal with my stuff or put in the effort to change myself an my life.

All the best guys, be kind, be kind, do your best.

[Starman]

Liberated Lotus, I feel there is a difference between a reason and an excuse, not all reasons are excuses, and while there is no excuse for the darkness, there may be a reason for it. Now everyone comes up with their own reasons, and some do view those reasons as excuses. From my metaphysical point of view, this entire creation is but a dance between shadow and light, and the darkness is nothing more than the shadow of the light.

I believe in karma, individual karma as well as geographical karma. Germany after World War I might be an example of geographical karma. A karma bought upon the land because of the actions of its’ people. The U.K. had its “troubles” as they were called in Northern Ireland, the violence, destitute, and impoverish-ness, that is going on today in Venezuela, the Middle East, or parts of Africa, among other places.

Americans have lived for a long time in a bubble, untouched on a large scale like other countries, but now such events have come to our shores, by our own hand just as it did in other nations. Karma does not distinguish between political boundaries on a map, but certain areas around the world do have a much higher energy frequency than other places, so it is plausible that certain areas also have a lower energy frequency, and maybe that frequency circulates globally. Just a theory.

I do not believe that free-will is absolute; in my opinion there are certain things that are destined to happen. Like everyone dies and gives up their human body no matter how much free-will they exert. There are things that have happened serendipitously in my life that had nothing to do with my making a choice or exerting free-will. Hindus believe that we live in the age of Kali, a time of the senses and darkness, on the cosmic clock. After the age of Kali will come the “true age,” or Sat-yuga.

I think we have a modicum of free-will within the framework of destiny. Having worked as a mental health counselor, substance abuse counselor, social worker, and medical worker; I know that people do not get better until all of the ingredients come together for that person to get better. When I used to ask alcoholics how come they did not seek treatment sooner, most would reply that they had not reached their bottom yet. Free-will only comes into play when we are able to use free-will. The most successful support programs all emphasize embracing something that is greater than yourself.

[Starman]

Nature Grows, thank you for the compassion and love.