Labels?

[freebird]

Thank you all three (Greenslade, Shivani and Hallow)
Obviously Santa Claus exists as 2 written words and in the imagination of people as well as unicorns, spirits or fairies which are considered to be myths. When I'm talking about Santa Claus I am reffering to the original one, not the ordinary grandpas disguised in a Santa Claus suit offering gifts to children.
But let's say someone believes in Santa, unicorns and fairies and someone does not. Can Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies exist for both people as a fact and not just as words?

[Anala]

Originally Posted by hallow

That's true, but as a person grows and matures in every stage of life, hopes and dreams change. A healthy minded person will grow out of believing in Santa Claus. I understand as much as anyone the truth/reality can be nothing but hard and ugly but if you find hope somewhere even if it is myth it has done what it was Intended. If you're Jewish you probably don't believe in Santa Claus at all. You'll have a completely different set of beliefs. But it all serves the same reason. You notice most major holidays happen during the dark winter months? Maybe they were created us to help ourselves threw the hardest time of the year. But now I am getting way off topic of labels. But it's easy to see how labels can confuse some because of misinterpreting what is really ment to be.

Santa is a good example of a label that plants a seed in our hearts and changes our actions and can bring forth love and light and compassion. Santa could be the awakening of spirit or faith or blessings or... The label becomes an action and so on. Even if you do not believe in the label, it can still elicit a response, good and bad, light and dark and every color in between.

btw, Hallow, I never thought of the holidays occurring more when we have less light...

Thank you, to everyone for sharing. You all have many interesting ideas.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by freebird

Thank you all three (Greenslade, Shivani and Hallow)
Obviously Santa Claus exists as 2 written words and in the imagination of people as well as unicorns, spirits or fairies. When I'm talking about Santa Claus I am reffering to the original one, not the ordinary grandpas disguised in a Santa Claus suit offering gifts to children.
But let's say someone believes in Santa, unicorns and fairies and someone does not. Can Santa Claus, unicorns and fairies exist for both people as a fact and not just as words?

Not at all, for IF Santa Claus, unicorns, fairies etc exist for both people as a 'fact' then BOTH would believe in them and not one person believing and the other not believing, isn't it?

All myths have their basis in a subjective truth.

For example, did you know that the whole concept of "Santa Claus" was concocted by the Shamanic tribes of Siberia LONG before Christianity came on the scene and adopted it?

Apparently, it all relates back to the Amanita Muscaria mushroom:
http://www.truthsayer.info/santa-shaman-much-much-much/

Shamans used to dress up in red and white garb, trip out on this 'shroom and fly with their reindeer...who were also quite fond of imbibing in the fungus. After which, they would distribute gifts to other members of the village.

The Santa Claus myth also has to do with the production of DMT in the Pineal gland through a "chimney" called the Claus-trum.

What we see as grandad dressing up and handing out presents is the symbolic representation of an ancient tradition which has long since been forgotten by all.

...and Santa Claus has nothing to DO with Christ's birth...just like how chocolate eggs have nothing to do with Easter.

Marketing corporations just thought they would capitalise monetarily upon a religious/secular holiday...as they do.

I mean, Australia never even knew what Halloween even WAS until 'Americanisms' slowly crept into our way of life, some time in the latter half of the last century. When I was a kid, there was NO "trick or treating" business..and now, every kid does it for the free candy...which, we call "lollies".

Just how the label "fanny" does not represent the bottom, but a private part of the female anatomy over here..

We are essentially, British...and the differences between "British labels" and "American labels" can be quite amusing at times...

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Anala

Santa is a good example of a label that plants a seed in our hearts and changes our actions and can bring forth love and light and compassion. Santa could be the awakening of spirit or faith or blessings or... The label becomes an action and so on. Even if you do not believe in the label, it can still elicit a response, good and bad, light and dark and every color in between.

btw, Hallow, I never thought of the holidays occurring more when we have less light...

Thank you, to everyone for sharing. You all have many interesting ideas.

the winter months are hard both physically and mentally. We need something to keep us going. In the northern hemisphere Dec 22nd is the shortest day of the year.observed Christmas is the 25th. It all really started way before christanity ever existed. As a celebration of the sun coming back. Because that's when the days start getting longer. The first day of summer is June 22nd. "The longest day" an other funny thing to think about. The moon takes 28 days to complete a full cycle. So does a woman's menstrual cycle.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

Not at all, for IF Santa Claus, unicorns, fairies etc exist for both people as a 'fact' then BOTH would believe in them and not one person believing and the other not believing, isn't it?

All myths have their basis in a subjective truth.

For example, did you know that the whole concept of "Santa Claus" was concocted by the Shamanic tribes of Siberia LONG before Christianity came on the scene and adopted it?

Apparently, it all relates back to the Amanita Muscaria mushroom:
http://www.truthsayer.info/santa-shaman-much-much-much/

Shamans used to dress up in red and white garb, trip out on this 'shroom and fly with their reindeer...who were also quite fond of imbibing in the fungus. After which, they would distribute gifts to other members of the village.

The Santa Claus myth also has to do with the production of DMT in the Pineal gland through a "chimney" called the Claus-trum.

What we see as grandad dressing up and handing out presents is the symbolic representation of an ancient tradition which has long since been forgotten by all.

...and Santa Claus has nothing to DO with Christ's birth...just like how chocolate eggs have nothing to do with Easter.

Marketing corporations just thought they would capitalise monetarily upon a religious/secular holiday...as they do.

I mean, Australia never even knew what Halloween even WAS until 'Americanisms' slowly crept into our way of life, some time in the latter half of the last century. When I was a kid, there was NO "trick or treating" business..and now, every kid does it for the free candy...which, we call "lollies".

Just how the label "fanny" does not represent the bottom, but a private part of the female anatomy over here..

We are essentially, British...and the differences between "British labels" and "American labels" can be quite amusing at times...

I have read that people don't celebrate Easter with the Easter Bunny. Because they hate rabbits. Halloween started in the European countries as well as hallows Eve.

[freebird]

If something doesen't exist, how can it even be possible to prove that it's not real and doesen't exist? For example if I want to believe in an Invisible Pink Unicorn how can someone prove me that it doesen't exist? Would someone else be able to prove me that I'm wrong and it's all in my imagination? Yes, the invisible pink unicorn might exist just in my imagination, but that doesen't mean it will exist in other people's mind unless they want to. Now speaking objectively I can't imagine how an invisible pink unicorn can both exist for a person and for the other one not to exist

[hallow]

Originally Posted by freebird

If something doesen't exist, how can it even be possible to prove that it's not real and doesen't exist? For example if I want to believe in an Invisible Pink Unicorn how can someone prove me that it doesen't exist? Would someone else be able to prove me that I'm wrong and it's all in my imagination? Yes, the invisible pink unicorn might exist just in my imagination, but that doesen't mean it will exist in other people's mind unless they want to. Now speaking objectively I can't imagine how an invisible pink unicorn can both exist for a person and for the other one not to exist

this is where it gets tricky. You can't physically proven it. But you can feel it. If it takes feeling a pink unicorn at your side to help you through the day, week, year. If that pink unicorn helps you to grow as a person and gives you hope. Believe it! Don't let anyone tell you anything different. Spiritually is extremely individualized.

[freebird]

Right. If I show someone a green box or whatever both of us would probably agree that it exists for both of us and that is green. Yet, if I say the box is yellow and exists the other person might say, yes it exists but it's green. Now the thing is that those concepts don't apply to spirits, fairies, unicorns, Santa, etc

Originally Posted by hallow

this is where it gets tricky. You can't physically proven it. But you can feel it. If it takes feeling a pink unicorn at your side to help you through the day, week, year. If that pink unicorn helps you to grow as a person and gives you hope. Believe it! Don't let anyone tell you anything different. Spiritually is extremely individualized.

[hallow]

Originally Posted by freebird

Right. If I show someone a green box or whatever both of us would probably agree that it exists for both of us and that is green. Yet, if I say the box is yellow and exists the other person might say, yes it exists but it's green. Now the thing is that those concepts don't apply to spirits, fairies, unicorns, Santa, etc

This world is so big with endless backgrounds ,teaching and experiences. The word green itself could have different meanings depending on where your from. Like a verse in my favorite song. "Follow your heart and nothing else" means everything to me. I would tell the world that if I could. No one is 100% right or wrong.

[Shivani Devi]

Originally Posted by freebird

If something doesen't exist, how can it even be possible to prove that it's not real and doesen't exist? For example if I want to believe in an Invisible Pink Unicorn how can someone prove me that it doesen't exist? Would someone else be able to prove me that I'm wrong and it's all in my imagination? Yes, the invisible pink unicorn might exist just in my imagination, but that doesen't mean it will exist in other people's mind unless they want to. Now speaking objectively I can't imagine how an invisible pink unicorn can both exist for a person and for the other one not to exist

This answer is going to be very complex in its simplicity.

Certain things, like God, require a belief in their existence TO exist at a personal, experiential level. Once a person has that experience, they then go from just believing to a knowing that is beyond the belief...this process is called "Gnosis".

You started from the position of skepticism.."If something doesn't exist..." and so, whatever you experience, will come from the belief in the "non existence" of the subject matter...rather than the existence of it...it doesn't work that way for it to be any other way!

I used the "Invisible Pink Unicorn" because this is what atheists call "God"..in their argument of "how can something which doesn't exist, ever be seen?" Well..to see it, you must first believe that it exists...and I am NOT talking about having any 'false belief' just so you can see it.

For the skeptic, it is "I will believe it when I see it".
For the believer, it is "I have seen it, therefore I believe it".

God doesn't care if people believe in "Him" (another label) or not.
He is not going to reveal Himself to those who do not, just to say "see, I am right and you are wrong"..He has tried that a few times before, only to be dismissed as a hallucination or a bad dream..or rationalised away by others who have gone from "I DO not believe" to a "I WILL not believe".

Can I show God to you? I have done aught else since I posted here (and since I joined this forum, actually)...can you see the God that I am showing you? Maybe...but probably (and likely) not, because you will have certain criteria that God must display in order to exist before you will believe He does...you will ask Him to tell you what you had for breakfast yesterday...then ask Him to produce a million dollars for you out of thin air...if He refuses to do it, you will say that's because He doesn't exist...and He will say "I exist...I just refuse to do what you ask to prove it"...so He just doesn't bother anymore, with a "if people don't believe I exist, FINE..I couldn't care less if they don't".