Will I say the same things again?

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

' Find that self, the one that exists before this mind and will exist after it is gone.'

What is that self Rain?

Whatever you make it. Maybe I should have worded that different. "Be that self, the one that exists before this mind and will exist after it is gone."..... but then find, be, kinda the same thing. Experience it. Experience what life, this moment and every moment is like when not giving any attention to thoughts or the conceptual based reality. Living and experiencing the actual world as opposed to the conceptual one.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Whatever you make it. Maybe I should have worded that different. "Be that self, the one that exists before this mind and will exist after it is gone."..... but then find, be, kinda the same thing. Experience it. Experience what life, this moment and every moment is like when not giving any attention to thoughts or the conceptual based reality. Living and experiencing the actual world as opposed to the conceptual one.

Sorry I am not understanding what self exists before and after, not to worry..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Eelco

We think this view of certain people about meditation is way to generalized.
in fact it is a pretty limiting view on meditation right.

What do you mean?

Most people I know for instance who start to practice meditation will be taught or find out that there is more to meditation than just holding their attention on the breath. That said. I have met many yogi's who instead of practising vipassana. Do samadhi meditation for a variety of valid reasons, instead of just doing it wrong as you imply here.

I know the vipassana type (mindfulness), which is what Happy Soul was talking about (I have never heard of 'samadhi meditation').

Right meditation, is as personal as right speech.

"right" in Buddhism pertains to virtue in some way, and that isn't really arbitrary. For example, telling fibs, is not 'right speech'. Meditation is like that too. For example some practice is 'right' in the sense it has no 'craving'.

Originally Posted by Gem

What do you mean?
I know the vipassana type (mindfulness), which is what Happy Soul was talking about (I have never heard of 'samadhi meditation').
"right" in Buddhism pertains to virtue in some way, and that isn't really arbitrary. For example, telling fibs, is not 'right speech'. Meditation is like that too. For example some practice is 'right' in the sense it has no 'craving'.

Never mind.

There's more than one way to get to Rome, there's more than several points of view on how to walk the noble 8 fold path.
In fact even at the Time of the Buddha one could get instructions on several styles of meditation, several "powers/ siddhis/ perfected formula's" one could cultivate as part of his or her training.

We've talked about this before Gem.

As for samadhi.. That is also known as samatha meditation and relates to meditation styles focused on concentration and calm.

We've discussed these types of meditation before..
We could even cautiously state that Samadhi or Samatha meditation was the foundational practise the Buddha taught.
Vipassana as we know it is a rather young discovery. Made by Mahasi Sayadaw. around 1920-1930-ish


With Love
Eelco

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by sky123

Sorry I am not understanding what self exists before and after, not to worry..

Well before and after this life we won't be in a physical body anymore. So it would be impossible for the attention to be on thought, since thought is made by our brains. We won't have brain. Unless you believe some type of energy brain exists which may. But all these human persons, that will all be gone. We will be an energy body, not a physical one. 5000 incarnations..... that's a lot of persons...but this one is what we have now to deal with

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

Well before and after this life we won't be in a physical body anymore. So it would be impossible for the attention to be on thought, since thought is made by our brains. We won't have brain. Unless you believe some type of energy brain exists which may. But all these human persons, that will all be gone. We will be an energy body, not a physical one. 5000 incarnations..... that's a lot of persons...but this one is what we have now to deal with

I have had many physical bodies and will be reborn again due to Kamma.
Thoughts are not made from the brain, they pop up from nowhere, well mine do

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Never mind.

OK .

There's more than one way to get to Rome, there's more than several points of view on how to walk the noble 8 fold path.
In fact even at the Time of the Buddha one could get instructions on several styles of meditation, several "powers/ siddhis/ perfected formula's" one could cultivate as part of his or her training.

We've talked about this before Gem.

As for samadhi.. That is also known as samatha meditation and relates to meditation styles focused on concentration and calm.

We've discussed these types of meditation before..
We could even cautiously state that Samadhi or Samatha meditation was the foundational practise the Buddha taught.
Vipassana as we know it is a rather young discovery. Made by Mahasi Sayadaw. around 1920-1930-ish


With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Rain95

I've tried things like that too. Lots of stuff. One common one is to go for a walk and see if you can ignore all of your thoughts. Remember you have 5 senses and this is all available to your attention and awareness. The thing that makes humans really different from other animals is they are primarily focused on their senses. Sight, smell, hearing, touch, and taste. Our primary focus is mind, inner talking, thought. We spend more time with our attention there than anywhere else. The data from our senses is secondary to mind usually. So when walking and trying to ignore thoughts it can also be about trying to not let the attention go to mind, keep it external, in this physical world, on the stuff out here...not within.

It's also worth mentioning that mind masquerades as self so any point of mind perspective is still mind. When the attention is not in mind, one is peaceful and calm and without conflict. So if one feels any kind of stress or conflict while "ignoring" their thoughts, it means the attention is still on mind it's just done tricks to make one not notice this.

Another thing to experiment with is the idea of being selfless. Not in the sense of owning such a thing or achieving it, so it's not about you getting this trait of no self. it's more about there is no you in the sense of a person. You are there always as high and alert awareness, but you are not there as this opinion and belief filled person. One tool that helps me is to imagine what your room or house is like when you are not home. Imagine the peace and calm that is present there when no human is present. Now try to be in that space. Be present with the "stuff" of the room when you are not there adding mind and all of that. Be there without bringing anything into it.

Everybody carries a self around with them. The habitual thought or thinker. All the accumulated belief and experience. Put 10 different people in a room you have 10 different selfs. The self you have now won't be your self in a future incarnation. So another experiment is to think about finding the "you" that is there now and when you are in different incarnation as John, then Mary, and on and on. Find that self, the one that exists before this mind and will exist after it is gone. The one that knows itself to not be this person, these beliefs, these opinions, these goals and quests and judgements. Drop all the stuff this current self thinks it needs or seeks or believes. Seek nothing, desire nothing, don't accept one belief from anybody or anything including yourself. Just be empty, a witness, a light, here on this giant planet floating in an infinite space.

There's so many ideas we have accepted from others. You know we program kids to think in terms of becoming. We ask them what do you want to be when you grow up? What are your goals? This thing is so brainwashed into us. Then our culture expects us to prove our worth. To judge ourselves. Then we take this programming and apply it to interests in religion or spirituality. But see spirituality is about the opposite. About being, not becoming. Only the mind seeks to become, the ego, the false self. There is nothing to become. The path is only about realizing what we are, what we already are. We are all perfect in every way. But what makes us experience something else is identifying with negative energies and physical matter. Identifying with thoughts and desires and emotions and memory and all of that.

That's why sages always say, you can't be enlightened because you are what is preventing it's flowering, the you, the seeker, thought, mind....there is only now. The present moment. That's all there will every be. Right now. So any possibility or goal has to be achievable now, in this instant. All seeking imagines a future moment and is not focused here and now. The only place you will discover a new experience and way of being is now...and really, being present to now, with the attention only in what is here, with the attention off of mind, off of all becoming, free and unconditioned, that is enlightenment and a revolution in consciousness. Less is more and nothing at all is everything.

In the Buddhist framework the annata is a no-me construct which in practical terms means there is no 'u' (you) in experience. It's usually regarded not-I in the same way neti-neti is implimented in practice. The Buddha on the road is the enlightened me, and not-I (or neti-neti) kills said Buddha. Hence in Buddhist teaching, Buddha is no person such as Gotama, and 'Buddha' means the enlightened quality.

Originally Posted by Gem

In the Buddhist framework the annata is a no-me construct which in practical terms means there is no 'u' (you) in experience. It's usually regarded not-I in the same way neti-neti is implimented in practice. The Buddha on the road is the enlightened me, and not-I (or neti-neti) kills said Buddha. Hence in Buddhist teaching, Buddha is no person such as Gotama, and 'Buddha' means the enlightened quality.

Clueless..

neti-neti isn't implied anywhere within the buddhist framework. It comes from hinduism, jnana yoga and advaita vedanta.
I understand you try to either bend buddhism to your understanding, or use Budhist-like language to give a voice to your experiences.
I fail to understand why you keep propagating your (limited) understanding as if it IS what the Buddha was teaching. Even after being shown, told and explained why and how your p.o.v is valid in itself, but differs greatly from what is commonly understood as Buddhism.

Now I don't mind the differences, I even think much of what you experience and talk about is valuable and worth listening to.
But calling it Buddhism, claiming that your understanding must be what the Buddha talked about(even if you find the idea of Gotama as a person and Buddhist teachers questionable).

I find it disrespectful.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

In the Buddhist framework the annata is a no-me construct which in practical terms means there is no 'u' (you) in experience. It's usually regarded not-I in the same way neti-neti is implimented in practice. The Buddha on the road is the enlightened me, and not-I (or neti-neti) kills said Buddha. Hence in Buddhist teaching, Buddha is no person such as Gotama, and 'Buddha' means the enlightened quality.

Contrary to popular conception, we have no record of the Buddha ever saying, “There is no self.” In the entire preserved volumes of the Buddha’s discourses, in only one place did someone actually ask the Buddha: “Is there no self?” The Buddha refused to answer the question. The same person then asked: “Is there a self?” This too the Buddha declined to answer. What the Buddha did say repeatedly is that no particular aspect of our psycho-physical being qualifies as atta or the Self. Not our body, not our feelings, not our thoughts, not our dispositions, and not our consciousness.


This might help
https://www.insightmeditationcenter....-noble-truths/