Will I say the same things again?

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

Indeed, so how they decribed it at my school was there are levels of understanding, and when you hear the teachings or dhamma discourses you get an intellectual understanding which is purely conceptual, but it also piques the curiosity and initiates an actual exploration which results in real life insight of direct realisations - then the initial understanding becomes deeper and you 'get' what the teachings are talking about in the way that is true in your own life. It is kind of ironic because these are universal truths such as 'craving is suffering', for example, yet your own discovery of how you generate your own suffering is 'in the way you actually see that yourself'. Then this brings the 'lightbulb moment' from your own life to enrich your understand the initial teaching. Hence the truth of the matter is NOT written in dhamma teachings, but is realised in real lived realisation.

I understand. The thing I notice is that there is no 'right' order in relation to the how people find their insight and direct realization. So it all fits into the greater scheme of things. It all comes back to our choices and sources that support us in the seeking. So some choose the intellectual knowing to build it that way, some may choose an experience and build it through that if they are open to allow the totality of experience to open them. I suppose at times the whole 'no choice' comes into some aspects of the direct realization as well.

True - thrse a part of me which is never disturbed, and some small part of my attention remains with that - but I become highly distracted and lose touch sometimes.

What things would create your greater distraction if you don't mind me asking?

I usually think of it as 'the spirit' coming through to pervade every part of the body mind, so the practice of running the awareness through out the whole body is like 'awareness itself' pervading throughout. The work really involves arousing conscious awareness through from the hard physical aspects of the body through to the subtlest motions that form it. The mind is dull to some degree so the very subtle aspects are unconscious (what I call still asleep) and the practice works to wake up the as yet unknown subtle levels of the lifeform. One can feel hard things dissolving and feel hard areas start to move, which is what I term 'opening up' as new energies move through the places which were previously blocked up.

I get it. Ive got some physical aspects in my body that require some more attention as to how to 'undo' them to end the constant repetition of having them adjusted (which supports for a time) and then having them fall back into old conditioned patterns.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

I understand. The thing I notice is that there is no 'right' order in relation to the how people find their insight and direct realization. So it all fits into the greater scheme of things. It all comes back to our choices and sources that support us in the seeking. So some choose the intellectual knowing to build it that way, some may choose an experience and build it through that if they are open to allow the totality of experience to open them. I suppose at times the whole 'no choice' comes into some aspects of the direct realization as well.

In the ling run, all understanding is from the realisation in the form of wisdom, and we can never really figure that out intellectually, so the intelligent thinking mind has it's role in life, but is easily misguided without the real lived wisdom. For example, you can't work out what love is, but you can know it direct from the heart.

What things would create your greater distraction if you don't mind me asking?

Things get difficult and I start losing the plot and distracted by my own mindless reactivity. The irony is, when I am aware of this distraction, I'm aware and not distracted... but what it boils down to is a level of intensity of experience that I can;t keep balanced and become totally compelled by the wildness of the mind.

I get it. Ive got some physical aspects in my body that require some more attention as to how to 'undo' them to end the constant repetition of having them adjusted (which supports for a time) and then having them fall back into old conditioned patterns.

Yes, we're all on that healing journey in life and the only really hard part is letting that happen, and that the basic irony really, the difficulty of not-doing. In the teachings they point out that bad things happen and we don't loike it, and good things happen and we want that, so we get into the habit of avoiding the bad and chasing after the good, all those desires and aversions, and this mental tension is the psychic energy 'ego' thrives on as running from that and chasing that is the generation of psychological time that 'I' moves through. The meditation then is thr cessation, no aversions like avoidance and resistance, and no craving for the pleasures - just the fact that this is how it is. But, when the experience gets extreme, the desire/aversion reactivity comes and the stability of the mind is lost. That's the distraction I have, at least.

[Gem]

SO... the talk on refuge has gone on for some pages, and I hope people following the thread have some impression of how the concept refers to something real in life - which isn't exclusively Buddhist, but universally human - Not as I say it or the monk says it - but as it's tangible to yourself.


There is another formality in Buddhism where we take vows of morality (called 'sila'), but these are the standard things: Don't kill, steal, lie etc. and probably too infantile to be of concern here; though the larger scope of morality is relevant as true-to-life virtue.



In the same way as scriptural dogma on refuge is fine for Buddhist adherents, but not particularly relevant in the forum context, sila is likewise. People who want to know the purely Buddhist perspective can google it, so I won't rabbit on quoting holy texts to the flock, right? teehee. Let Google be your preacher instead. All hail!



The reason I raise morality is because of the Buddhist view that refuge and sila together form the foundation of meditation... which is important in keeping the thread in line with real life practice... so we find meaning in ourselves of this notion of virtue... goodness... "right...'

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Gem

In the ling run, all understanding is from the realisation in the form of wisdom, and we can never really figure that out intellectually, so the intelligent thinking mind has it's role in life, but is easily misguided without the real lived wisdom. For example, you can't work out what love is, but you can know it direct from the heart.

Yes wisdom of course.

Things get difficult and I start losing the plot and distracted by my own mindless reactivity. The irony is, when I am aware of this distraction, I'm aware and not distracted... but what it boils down to is a level of intensity of experience that I can;t keep balanced and become totally compelled by the wildness of the mind.

Yes I am finding right now there are few situations that in the old ways were constant mindless reactivity in myself. Like you when I become aware of myself in this way, it tends to ease and I get on with things and it subsides easily without 'me' in the way of myself.

I imagine and I am noticing through some streams of myself, even the more difficult aspects that cause some imbalance in me, there is a little background knowing and feeling where I am sensing my joyful self moving one with the experience of the old patterns that might arise. I suspect that background sense is coming to life through those difficult aspects, just I am revisiting to let go and trust in the process. I notice I am not shaken by the unknown as much as I use to be, more slightly imbalanced in the experience to walk things through now without that fear in place. It can be slightly challenging, because your awareness, and thinking mind, as well as feelings get it, so its kind of like this slow dance within yourself, aware, shifting and moving through it to ground deeper, shaking somewhat, but very aware it is pointless to the outcome that will be. And there coming to be in the background is the self unmoved by the experience, more aware of how we can face life matters and the lived experience without the mind reactions taking over.

Last night I was challenged by my dreamer self where by I was activated by a compassionate awareness of past war on terror in the world. I know opening to the fears to things of this nature was quite confronting. I woke with a similar reaction but as I allowed it to be, it brought me to a place of awareness of "not needing to go back there". Like a message that I can end the war on my on terror in this way and bring the real dream into being more complete without that now. I think its a bridge of empathy and compassion that meets the true self more directly in joy of being.

Yes, we're all on that healing journey in life and the only really hard part is letting that happen, and that the basic irony really, the difficulty of not-doing. In the teachings they point out that bad things happen and we don't loike it, and good things happen and we want that, so we get into the habit of avoiding the bad and chasing after the good, all those desires and aversions, and this mental tension is the psychic energy 'ego' thrives on as running from that and chasing that is the generation of psychological time that 'I' moves through. The meditation then is thr cessation, no aversions like avoidance and resistance, and no craving for the pleasures - just the fact that this is how it is. But, when the experience gets extreme, the desire/aversion reactivity comes and the stability of the mind is lost. That's the distraction I have, at least.

Its interesting I cant avoid the bad in myself now, the journey through the dark night unlocked the barriers in feeling to open and face the fears to face everything in this way connected to myself. I think the practice now is to know that I can move beyond that now aware I have built the balance of understanding in myself to get on with things aware. I am having a new realization that I am in charge to shut the old door, its up to me to end the old patterns, end the war in myself. So when it arises, allowing but also moving through those aware connections I have made in myself to go deeper again to the joy of being the true self aware. I think that the dream was partly showing me this, the current activation dissolving the threads in me related to this point of surrender without the old in place in me.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

SO... the talk on refuge has gone on for some pages, and I hope people following the thread have some impression of how the concept refers to something real in life - which isn't exclusively Buddhist, but universally human - Not as I say it or the monk says it - but as it's tangible to yourself.


There is another formality in Buddhism where we take vows of morality (called 'sila'), but these are the standard things: Don't kill, steal, lie etc. and probably too infantile to be of concern here; though the larger scope of morality is relevant as true-to-life virtue.



In the same way as scriptural dogma on refuge is fine for Buddhist adherents, but not particularly relevant in the forum context, sila is likewise. People who want to know the purely Buddhist perspective can google it, so I won't rabbit on quoting holy texts to the flock, right? teehee. Let Google be your preacher instead. All hail!



The reason I raise morality is because of the Buddhist view that refuge and sila together form the foundation of meditation... which is important in keeping the thread in line with real life practice... so we find meaning in ourselves of this notion of virtue... goodness... "right...'

' so I won't rabbit on quoting holy texts to the flock, right? teehee. Let Google be your preacher instead. All hail! '

Teehee.

Originally Posted by sky123

' so I won't rabbit on quoting holy texts to the flock, right? teehee. Let Google be your preacher instead. All hail! '

Teehee.

Yeah that was funny. He should write an article we could quote..


With Love
Eelco

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Yeah that was funny. He should write an article we could quote..


With Love
Eelco

As long as it's written with right speech and lotsssssss of metta, it should be quotable.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Yes wisdom of course.




Yes I am finding right now there are few situations that in the old ways were constant mindless reactivity in myself. Like you when I become aware of myself in this way, it tends to ease and I get on with things and it subsides easily without 'me' in the way of myself.

I imagine and I am noticing through some streams of myself, even the more difficult aspects that cause some imbalance in me, there is a little background knowing and feeling where I am sensing my joyful self moving one with the experience of the old patterns that might arise. I suspect that background sense is coming to life through those difficult aspects, just I am revisiting to let go and trust in the process.

Well said, it rings true for me as well, and I think the last part bolded is the real lived 'refuge'.

notice I am not shaken by the unknown as much as I use to be, more slightly imbalanced in the experience to walk things through now without that fear in place. It can be slightly challenging, because your awareness, and thinking mind, as well as feelings get it, so its kind of like this slow dance within yourself, aware, shifting and moving through it to ground deeper, shaking somewhat, but very aware it is pointless to the outcome that will be. And there coming to be in the background is the self unmoved by the experience, more aware of how we can face life matters and the lived experience without the mind reactions taking over.

I lived hard times over a NDE that put the fear of god in me, and I realised my little life fears were just symptoms of the deeper existential fear. It was maddening to know the certainty of death and terror when after I realised the path is just one step, right now, or not, and letting go is a totality... Still, when I touched the void there was a sense that be there something or be there nothing, full happiness has nothing to do with the experience at all. But still, there is a healing process in life, dull mind still can be sharpened, and skills can be attained through practice. When I went to do the meditation retreat my spiritual endeavours had gone into reverse into reverse. Instead of attaining that most high, that most high had to be brought right through the mind/body life form by becoming more deeply consciously aware. Ever since then my spiritual practice has been running the conscious attention through feeling from the hardest to the most subtle aspect. The lifeform is already entirely suffused in the greater awareness, with practice only bringing about the consciously aware direct knowing of that. I talk about the meditation as the conscious awareness of the truth in the moment as it is experienced in the way I experience it. It is as it is in this moment, with the only question being, are you aware? That answer exists only in direct conscious knowing now and now and now... having no substance in the 'now and forever'.






As I say I have my distraction, but becoming conscious of it I notice that I am 'behind' it - and this experience has nothing to do with me. I'm actually not touched by it whatsoever, and should it remain or vanish entirely makes no difference. That part is ever peaceful.



Then I find I'm not affected, but I've gone away. The day I vanished, Gem appeared in my mind like my own ghost, panicking, desperate and angry. I realised I lived my life as this terrified one rather that as the one who now watches undisturbed. I then understood Buddha's 'house builder' (mentioned earlier in the thread). I knew I am not who I am. Gem is in the universe just like planets and stars, and I love the guy not because I chose to, but because the realised truth is, I see all things with utmost purity of love despite all my surface delusions.



These delusions arising from the kamma of past conditioning, the old reaactions to traumatic events etc. and now for me there but to 'let it happen' so that no new potential for misery is generated.


That is not easy even though it requires no effort to 'let'. Now we speak of morality and all that is 'right', the Buddhist notion of 'right effort' is pertinent to this virtue. For example, when I recently felt that 'reaction' to accusation arising as my need to defend and self-justify, I could tell it was only my self-impression against others' impressions of Gem - IE, it's all imaginary, has no merit, and the belief in its 'reality' is only self-deception. It is that 'ghost' of gem, who as I explained above, isn't me, and in light of that, I see no need to enter the futility of reaction which generates that miserable figure of Gem. Gem the 'house builder', I am aware of you.

Last night I was challenged by my dreamer self where by I was activated by a compassionate awareness of past war on terror in the world. I know opening to the fears to things of this nature was quite confronting. I woke with a similar reaction but as I allowed it to be, it brought me to a place of awareness of "not needing to go back there". Like a message that I can end the war on my on terror in this way and bring the real dream into being more complete without that now. I think its a bridge of empathy and compassion that meets the true self more directly in joy of being.

True, that endless outpouring of compassion has it's own pain, and most of us close that off to avoid getting hurt, but as we get stronger we can take more and more, so we open the heart up to all the worldly misery.

Its interesting I cant avoid the bad in myself now, the journey through the dark night unlocked the barriers in feeling to open and face the fears to face everything in this way connected to myself. I think the practice now is to know that I can move beyond that now aware I have built the balance of understanding in myself to get on with things aware. I am having a new realization that I am in charge to shut the old door, its up to me to end the old patterns, end the war in myself. So when it arises, allowing but also moving through those aware connections I have made in myself to go deeper again to the joy of being the true self aware. I think that the dream was partly showing me this, the current activation dissolving the threads in me related to this point of surrender without the old in place in me.

Yes, and we all have the whole contents of our past kamma, we all closed parts down to survive, which we have to open up again when we're stronger. It literally can;t be avoided. It can be put off for a while, even a whole lifetime, but it is already generated and it still need to be lived consciously. I talked with a very talented healer once who explained to me that they have no ego in the healing process. They are the universal consciousness to which you open up, no person there. No judgement arises so the right conditions to be truthful, to show yourself, arises, and you can reveal those closed off parts... as you step out into the light a little. In ourselves it's the same. We are the conscious awareness our dark places open up into... and when we stop holding things down they just bubble up into our conscious space. That's the equanimity, the ceasing to react, as the skilled healer has no reaction at all to the ghastly things that are revealed to them - which is to say, there is no ego involved.


I'm not a skilled healer, but I understand the 'annata' of no person and the unaffected way that healer explained.


Well I raved a bit to get my spiritual expression out there, so thanks for listening, because you are my greater conscious awareness.

Originally Posted by sky123

As long as it's written with right speech and lotsssssss of metta, it should be quotable.

Well that cost me my coffee. It's all over the screen.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Well that cost me my coffee. It's all over the screen.

Sorry, here we go,

🍵🍩