Will I say the same things again?

[sky]

Double post..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Contrary to popular conception, we have no record of the Buddha ever saying, “There is no self.” In the entire preserved volumes of the Buddha’s discourses, in only one place did someone actually ask the Buddha: “Is there no self?” The Buddha refused to answer the question. The same person then asked: “Is there a self?” This too the Buddha declined to answer. What the Buddha did say repeatedly is that no particular aspect of our psycho-physical being qualifies as atta or the Self. Not our body, not our feelings, not our thoughts, not our dispositions, and not our consciousness.


This might help
https://www.insightmeditationcenter....-noble-truths/

The basic teaching Buddha gave is along the lines of all self theories leading to misery in some way, so he didn't really concern himself with explanations of self or no self, but the way of meditation on things that are not-I, me, mine, my are very common in the teachings. He did give reasons for not answering if there is a self or if no self was true, but I can't remember exactly what those reasons were.

Originally Posted by Gem

The basic teaching Buddha gave is along the lines of all self theories leading to misery in some way, so he didn't really concern himself with explanations of self or no self, but the the way of meditation on things that are not-I, me, mine, my are very common in the teachings. He did give reasons for not stating if there is a self or if no self was true, but I can't remember exactly what those reasons were.

Google is your friend here..
I find it puzzling you on the one hand state what meditation, the eight fold path and the 4 noble truths point to without understanding one of the main focal points of meditation pertaining the 3 characteristics of phenomenon as explained by buddhist scholars..


Again not saying you are wrong, only that categorizing it as what the buddha supposedly taught. Or what Buddhism ism's about is wrong.


Because it isn't what the sutta's describe or what Buddhism teaches..
Well maybe a few small sects do teach it as part of a meditation course/retreat. But then blowing it out of proportion as truth is a bit much i'd say.


With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Eelco

Google is your friend here..
I find it puzzling you on the one hand state what meditation, the eight fold path and the 4 noble truths point to without understanding one of the main focal points of meditation pertaining the 3 characteristics of phenomenon as explained by buddhist scholars..

Well, you could go ahead and explain that.

Again not saying you are wrong, only that categorizing it as what the buddha supposedly taught. Or what Buddhism ism's about is wrong.

Oh, I'm certainly not wrong about anything I said in the post you quoted.

Because it isn't what the sutta's describe or what Buddhism teaches..

Of course it's in the suttas. Indeed, 'anatta' meaning 'not-I' is by far the most common translation, and Buddha did say that self theories lead to misery and also he gave reason for not giving an answer for if there self or not.

Well maybe a few small sects do teach it as part of a meditation course/retreat. But then blowing it out of proportion as truth is a bit much i'd say.

I only said it's what the teachings say... I didn't say it was "true", just that's what is said in the teachings.

[Gem]

Just for clarification


Buddhas reasons for not answering if there is a self or not can be found here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....010.than.html


Buddhas teaching on self theory causing misery can be found here under the heading "Impermanance and Not-Self" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....022.nypo.html



The last point of Not-Self in practical application is mentioned under the heading "The Three Characteristics" in the second link above.



Thus these are indeed consistent with the teachings, as I said.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

Just for clarification


Buddhas reasons for not answering if there is a self or not can be found here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....010.than.html


Buddhas teaching on self theory causing misery can be found here under the heading "Impermanance and Not-Self" https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....022.nypo.html



The last point of Not-Self in practical application is mentioned under the heading "The Three Characteristics" in the second link above.



Thus these are indeed consistent with the teachings, as I said.

Here's the short and sweet

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....059.nymo.html

to add to the collection, the more the merrier

So sutta's says is only applicable if it meets the need to validate ones findings?

Curious..
As per the title I feel we do keep saying the same things over and over. Which may just be a sign of our madness.

With Love
Eelco

Originally Posted by Gem

The basic teaching Buddha gave is along the lines of all self theories leading to misery in some way, so he didn't really concern himself with explanations of self or no self, but the way of meditation on things that are not-I, me, mine, my are very common in the teachings. He did give reasons for not answering if there is a self or if no self was true, but I can't remember exactly what those reasons were.

The basic teaching the buddha gave was that dhukka is a given, that there is a cause for dhukka, that cessation of dhukka is possible and that there is a path that leads to the cessation of dhukka.
This we know for sure he taught.

As for how one goes about treading the path leading to the cessation of dhukka.(known as the noble eight fold path) we can only guess, use our discernment, talk to people who claim to be on the path and tell us what works and what doesn't.
I tend to fall back on the sutta's from the Pali canon, but am open to sutra's outside the Pali canon. Same for meditation, Vipassana or dry insight had me on a narrow path for a while, but opening my horizon's I found merrit in other sadhana(work on the path) as well.

Meditation vipassana, samatha, mantra, and a few other modalities can all help see what needs to be seen. It is why the Buddha in one Sutta takes new students around his senior monks and tell his students to go where based on the preferences and possibly constitution.

What we learn from the sutta's is that the Buddha had the ability to know where someone eager to learn was at and use a similie or teaching that was well suited to increase the chances in that student to experience a cessation.

After his death we are forced to make do with retellings and buddhist teachers undersatnding, which over the years resulted in different sects with different emphasis on certain parts of the sutta's.

It is our duty as students to keep an open mind and go where we increase our chances for understanding.

Again what you do and say Gem works for you, everyone who wants that should try it and see for themselves. It doesn't mean that is is the whole truth or even what the Buddha talked about.


With Love
Eelco

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

Here's the short and sweet

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....059.nymo.html

to add to the collection, the more the merrier

Shorter and sweeter! And more betterer!

Originally Posted by sky123

This might help
https://www.insightmeditationcenter....-noble-truths/

And here another about self, and also what happens when we try to make sense of it. https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-self-450193
It could just be the Buddha didn't say anymore, because he feared it would split the sanga as it has years down the road


With Love
Eelco