What is the difference

sky · #1 24-11-2023, 10:58 AM

between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven ?. There seems to be a variety of interpretations amongst different denominations of Christians.... I personally think Heaven refers to the physical and God to the spiritual...

Miss Hepburn · #2 24-11-2023, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky

I personally think Heaven refers to the physical and God to the spiritual...

Oh, that's interesting, sky. I think of both as spiritual.
Let's see what others think. Interesting topic.
Our Father Who art in Heaven...will come up!

Maisy · #3 24-11-2023, 04:22 PM

A kingdom is a country, state, or territory ruled by a king or queen. Many Kings and kingdoms existed when the scrolls were written that make up the bible. Within the two kingdoms of Israel and Judah, there were a total of forty-two kings over a period of hundreds of years. Saul, David, and Solomon ruled over the united kingdoms at various times, and then 20 kings ruled over Israel with 19 kings ruling over Judah.

The bible says the messiah would be a King.

Jeremiah 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch;
And He will reign as king and act wisely
And do justice and righteousness in the land.

I think a "Kingdom of God" is basically a view our territory has God involved in it in someway, like God is on our side as opposed to other kingdoms ruled by different kings. Like we are "the chosen people" as opposed to those other cultures or people. But then God made everybody in theory so not sure if the idea he would pick sides in wars or territory disputes. Reminds me of how people pray to God to have their sports team win. They must think God is on their side and not the side of the other team.

I think Jesus or the early Christians knew they were not establishing Jesus as a King to rule over some lands on earth so then came the phase "Kingdom of Heaven" meaning my "Kingdom" is not of this world. Jesus says it himself.

John 18:36 KJV
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world.

But then the old testament said the messiah would establish a Kingdom on earth and Jesus claimed to be the messiah. One of the reasons the Jews don't accept Jesus as the messiah.

Maisy · #4 24-11-2023, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky

I personally think Heaven refers to the physical and God to the spiritual...

Or heaven (place) God (person or entity)

Kingdom of place (heaven)
Kingdom of (ruled by - person or entity) God

Jesus (God) saying my kingdom is not of this world, I am king in/of heaven...
I think "Kingdom of God" can be imagined anywhere, on earth or in some spiritual dimension to one who believes in a God.

FallingLeaves · #5 24-11-2023, 06:05 PM

yeah i would agree, we can and do make up all sorts of things and then point to them and say 'this is this and that is that'... that cherubim at the east gate to eden sorta makes anything we do along those lines 'unreal' though...

'kingdom' - yeah a place where people gather...

the words are all mixed up though. For example you say the kingdom of heaven and I think of a place above the sky, heaven where people go after they die. It is a spiritual place but honestly I don't personally think much of it because I can't go there here, now so what use is it? (honestly I have a feeling I never get to go there sigh).

But at the same time you say the word 'heaven' and I'm drawn to the root word 'heavy' which belies the idea that it is above the sky, it sinks 'down' from there.

Meanwhile my memory (which i'm gonna admit here isn't so good right now because I haven't been feeding it lol) has the kingdom of god mentioned in a passage out of the book of thomas where jesus basically says you can't point to the kingdom of god because it is in us and around us, there isn't a place it is 'not'. So pointing in its direction is absurd... seemingly as is claiming you can have it but still hoard it, and deny it to others.

But meanwhile if the kingdom of god is in us and around us here, now, then it isn't up above the sky so it isn't the same as where I've been led to believe heaven is... so is it different from the kingdom of heaven or not?

anyway i sorta had to grudginly agree with maisy the other day when she said maybe we do see past the glare into these kingdoms... it is maybe more a matter of not having very nice maps of what is there or how to look at it lol... but that is back to our relationship with that cherubim, it simply isn't gonna let us anyway for however long we wanna be foolish and not listen to god to begin with.

anyway i like 'kingdom of god' better than 'kingdom of heaven' although I suppose in a pinch I could take them both to mean the same desirable thing anyway... heaven standing for what it does being a place like 'eden'... and the kingdom of god meaning similarly to me.

that is my thoughts....

sky · #6 24-11-2023, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I don't personally think much of it because I can't go there here, now so what use is it? (honestly I have a feeling I never get to go there sigh)

Gosh FL you do tie yourself in knots

If heaven is a state of mind (as some seem to think) then you can go there anytime you choose whilst still in the physical body.

Maisy · #7 24-11-2023, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

in a passage out of the book of thomas where jesus basically says you can't point to the kingdom of god because it is in us and around us, there isn't a place it is 'not'.

Like a state of consciousness where you are suddenly "in" (experiencing life as) the Kingdom of Heaven. I think really our state of consciousness or being determines where we go in the spirit or energy dimension so I think the two do go together somewhat. I think what we are (and therefore do) will determine where we go in the post human after life... so if the astral world is stratified into levels of higher and lower, places for higher and lower entities, then what we achieve or are here determines where we are there.

I imagine some from earth go to lower energy dimensions and some go to more higher places which could be called "heaven." I remember in one of those books by Carlos Castaneda they try to go to a place they called "Glory." A golden shimmering city in the distance. If you are not familiar with those books basically this group led by a shaman sometimes did astral projection into the spirit or energy realms. Well the two masters, Don Juan and another master and a few others tried to go to "Glory" and this one person had no trouble at all..... running ahead of the others all excited at the sight of this holy golden city but Carlos could not make it. The closer he got the more he could not move. I think he was just not evolved enough to go to that place. Higher vibrations than his "soul" had.

Maisy · #8 24-11-2023, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

(honestly I have a feeling I never get to go there sigh)

Like that song "Lost On You" by LP she sings - "I'll never get to heaven cause I don't know how."

Yea I could say I don't think I am very spiritual but then on the other hand my life has been filled with illness and childhood abuse etc so who knows. Maybe higher souls get tested more with rough lives filled with not so great stuff.

I think the purpose of life is to learn and experience and sometimes we experience not so great stuff. I don't think anyone will know where they rate spiritually until this life is over. Like it's possible for a very high soul to pick a body with severe mental illness (for learning purposes.) So looking at such a person one may assume they are not very evolved as they can't control their body or mind.

There is that old story where a Pope had a vision of his master being in a certain monastery and he goes there and all the monks fight to be in the front when he arrives (thinking they are the one) and the Pope gets there and pushes past all the monks and goes into the kitchen and bows at the feet of an old woman doing the dishes there.

FallingLeaves · #9 24-11-2023, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maisy

There is that old story where a Pope had a vision of his master being in a certain monastery and he goes there and all the monks fight to be in the front when he arrives (thinking they are the one) and the Pope gets there and pushes past all the monks and goes into the kitchen and bows at the feet of an old woman doing the dishes there.

ditto on the 'state of consciosnuess' comment. I think you said what I was thinking, now to point a finger after all I'd say that to me, the kingdom of god is the 'energy' dimension, as that is something that is both in and around us even now and you don't have to go anywere else to take part in it... lights/sights are always a place at least for me where I'm pointing to somewhere else off in the distance that I can go to... like I just did lol....

i've been thinking lately, i used to so want life to be 'easy'... but it has turned into a very 'difficult' endeavor. One thing, after another? I'm wondering, if there is a reason for that? Maybe it is like walking up a hill, if there is good reason to go up one it is going to be harder than going the other direcgtion regardless of what one wannbst things to be like? Regardless, I can see clearly how shallow I'd be if I hadn't been made to climb hills lol!

Maisy · #10 25-11-2023, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

I'm wondering, if there is a reason for that?

I personally think the reason earth/life (and us) is a mess is because no "perfect all knowing God" is behind the creation of it. I think basically we made it, although it's "made" from the other side of course and when we are in a energy state, not a "physical" one. Also when I say "we" I mean beings exactly like ourselves but I'm not sure at what level we need to be at to get to do or become involved in such things.

But I think the evidence is all around us. I don't think an all knowing God would make dinosaurs then have a "whoops" moment when a huge meteor hits the earth and takes them out. But beings like us, flawed and all, yea I can see it. Like look at the evolution of apes to what we are now. Bigger brains, more intelligence, why not start there? Why start with apes? I think because we are learning and improving the creation as we go. Tweaking it, experimenting.

Like why would an all powerful God make bed bugs? But beings like us? Yea I can imagine someone like us learning to create and making something as twisted as a bed bug. Whoops... Like create it, set it loose, oh it makes life worse for humans... oh that's good the more they struggle the more they learn and the more aware they get... Look at the fish that live at the bottom of the ocean. That sure seems like a creators class in the astral world summer school class.