Conducive to purpose

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Do you know what a Buddha is? How about a bodhisattvas?

Maybe this will help.

I don't need to know, but of course your open to share your awareness of what things mean through the Buddhist teachings. If its important to you to show that you have knowledge, then those that need it may learn from this.

As an experiencer, I am more interested in the lived experience, opening and actualizing my own realizations that have come through my own path of conscious practice and letting go. So for me I utilize all life, which of course can lead me to an understanding of Buddhism at the core of those realizations. As I see this, clarity once attained becomes the self embodiment, as an integration of energetic openness, reflecting what it is in that 'clarity' as a state of being. So for me knowledge if your using this as means to become this point of actualizing your realizations, is really just a tool, to show the way. Ultimately the work is done by you and process within all this, becomes the work. It is 'through' Buddhism that you can learn what you are and what your true self is. I can see like any teachings, religion or knowledge, they are a directive to support one to understand, learn and become what they are pointing to.

My quote above shows much more emerges, or one realizes they are much more than just a nice person.

I am not sure why you brought into the picture 'nice person". Do you feel I am speaking from this perspective, when I say any path can build the attainment of a Buddha nature, or state of being totally in one's true state. I am relating from my awareness that this process of becoming is a "state of being" loving kindness and compassion, not just being nice. I am aware and relating from an integrated, energetic, connected aware state, that represents this as I see it.

You see there are degrees.. You want to know where true compassion and loving kindness comes from? It comes from clarity.

The where it comes from is all well and good if you need it. Perhaps you need the knowledge still, because your not experiencing yourself fully integrated through your totally of self yet?

As a totality, I mean that your being this effortlessly through your whole being, your mind/body flows in harmony of being compassion and kindness, there is no need to even name it as such. Presence aware of itself, is just being itself as this aware.

This is an aspect of the Primordial State.

I think you can see where being a nice person and actually realizing such a state of being is much different.

Again you mention nice person. That was not where I was focused. It didn't enter my awareness to show comparison of what I have come to know through my own state aware. What sparked this comparison your intent on showing?

Not in what you are describing no. It would not be Buddhism or any tradition to be honest.

I don't believe there is an end point. I also know the more I change the more others change around me. Look within for the entire universe is inside of you.

I am well aware what is within me.

By letting go more and more of my obstructions that then helps me realize more of that which I am.

What kind of obstructions are you currently aware of?

Being a Buddha of course, but also not falling into the trap that I have arrived. Knowledge helps one also understand what they are experiencing.

I see.

For instance, for years I felt these flows of energy in my head. Thoughts sometimes as silent or not as this every flowing energy. Like the wind from a fan. I could reside in those flows and all sorts of things but I didn't know what they were until I read this book.

So if the universe is within you, wouldn't your answer flow from within? If you were residing in these flows for years, why did you need to know what they were. The experience is unique to the one experiencing. See this is where the trap of knowledge begins to move one away from the experience, outward into the books to name and label the experience. Where as presence aware and conscious to just allow without labelling, naming what is.

That is what I was and yet here I found it in Buddhism. In the teachings of a master.

And so that makes you feel special? It just confirms again, in my view that anyone open to themselves aware and experiencing, doesn't need to know what it is. It is what it is for you as the one experiencing this. Perhaps you do feel special. I don't know.

I hope that helps you understand where I am coming from.

Yes of course. I can see you more clearly now. And not in your words and knowledge, more how you are in yourself right now as the one expressing and relating.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Not assuming anything.

All you have to do is look in this section of the forum.

I have been here for a long time and have been made fun of, put down because I bring up Buddhist teachings in the Buddhist section.

Why would someone do it? IDK, ask them.

Why does it seem like you don't want to read a sutra? Is it because it is to long or to old?

Why haven't you searched what void or emptiness means before talking about it?

All it takes is a little curiosity.. like I don't believe jonesboy in what he is saying.. let me look it up. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right.. either way the looking, reading and then knowing most defiantly doesn't hurt you.

All the best to you,

Tom

I can sense your energy is dancing right now in its newly found shift and empowerment. And you show why you choose this space to do it. Buddhism is the chosen creative pathway. But you as the person are showing in your response, that this has more to do with showing others who have not listened to you previously, where you have arrived to in yourself currently.Your questioning also is filled with this newly found empowerment, I can sense this too. It gives one courage to come back to the old spaces where you say you were not heard. Just a little hint for you. Your questioning is bordering on pressing, but that is ok, its often a reflection of ones newly found empowerment and confidence, when one is passionate to show his view as he believes and needs, sees and wants others to see too.

I am an experiencer who listens to myself as deep as my depth will take me. Everything is within. I know this from experience.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I don't need to know, but of course your open to share your awareness of what things mean through the Buddhist teachings. If its important to you to show that you have knowledge, then those that need it may learn from this.

As an experiencer, I am more interested in the lived experience, opening and actualizing my own realizations that have come through my own path of conscious practice and letting go. So for me I utilize all life, which of course can lead me to an understanding of Buddhism at the core of those realizations. As I see this, clarity once attained becomes the self embodiment, as an integration of energetic openness, reflecting what it is in that 'clarity' as a state of being. So for me knowledge if your using this as means to become this point of actualizing your realizations, is really just a tool, to show the way. Ultimately the work is done by you and process within all this, becomes the work. It is 'through' Buddhism that you can learn what you are and what your true self is. I can see like any teachings, religion or knowledge, they are a directive to support one to understand, learn and become what they are pointing to.









I am not sure why you brought into the picture 'nice person". Do you feel I am speaking from this perspective, when I say any path can build the attainment of a Buddha nature, or state of being totally in one's true state. I am relating from my awareness that this process of becoming is a "state of being" loving kindness and compassion, not just being nice. I am aware and relating from an integrated, energetic, connected aware state, that represents this as I see it.





The where it comes from is all well and good if you need it. Perhaps you need the knowledge still, because your not experiencing yourself fully integrated through your totally of self yet?

As a totality, I mean that your being this effortlessly through your whole being, your mind/body flows in harmony of being compassion and kindness, there is no need to even name it as such. Presence aware of itself, is just being itself as this aware.







Again you mention nice person. That was not where I was focused. It didn't enter my awareness to show comparison of what I have come to know through my own state aware. What sparked this comparison your intent on showing?








I am well aware what is within me.






What kind of obstructions are you currently aware of?




I see.




So if the universe is within you, wouldn't your answer flow from within? If you were residing in these flows for years, why did you need to know what they were. The experience is unique to the one experiencing. See this is where the trap of knowledge begins to move one away from the experience, outward into the books to name and label the experience. Where as presence aware and conscious to just allow without labelling, naming what is.






And so that makes you feel special? It just confirms again, in my view that anyone open to themselves aware and experiencing, doesn't need to know what it is. It is what it is for you as the one experiencing this. Perhaps you do feel special. I don't know.




Yes of course. I can see you more clearly now. And not in your words and knowledge, more how you are in yourself right now as the one expressing and relating.

Thank you for your response.

I have shared a lot about my realizations, my state of being in the past. I have also offered to directly work with others using mind to mind transmission. I really have no desire to do so at the moment. I am not posting about me.

What is amazing is we have another person come into the Buddhist section telling everyone how knowledge of Buddhism is a negative thing. Because you have knowledge that is a sign of something lacking.

Actually for most serious people you want to use terms for common understanding. If for nothing else to have an intelligent conversation.

It is okay to not know what something really means like emptiness or clarity. What is not okay is when you learn you have the wrong understanding of it to then discourage others from learning what it actually means. Even worse is to continue ones own lack of understanding as something to aspire to.

Emptiness is a fullness not an absence of some thing. As someone goes about their journey such misunderstandings can lead one to some unnecessary struggles.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by JustBe

I can sense your energy is dancing right now in its newly found shift and empowerment. And you show why you choose this space to do it. Buddhism is the chosen creative pathway. But you as the person are showing in your response, that this has more to do with showing others who have not listened to you previously, where you have arrived to in yourself currently.Your questioning also is filled with this newly found empowerment, I can sense this too. It gives one courage to come back to the old spaces where you say you were not heard. Just a little hint for you. Your questioning is bordering on pressing, but that is ok, its often a reflection of ones newly found empowerment and confidence, when one is passionate to show his view as he believes and needs, sees and wants others to see too.

I am an experiencer who listens to myself as deep as my depth will take me. Everything is within. I know this from experience.

Not really.

No new empowerment, Buddhism is not my creative pathway. I am just as happy talking about Kashmir Shaivism or quoting Jesus.

I know the people in this section. Gem has been the same Gem for years.

Sky has fought with me for years. I do feel a change in the relationship recently and it makes me happy.

Now I am a tantra guy. Most people here want nothing to do with any tradition that is trantra related. Think Tibetan Buddhism mainly.

That is ok.

What does get my back up is people coming into any section. Buddhist, Hindu or whatever and putting down people’s passion, love for ones beliefs, knowledge and understanding of their belief system.

If you don’t want to know what Buddhism is really about there are a whole lot of sections on it his forum where people can post what they believe whatever in.

I know there is a section where people from a lived experience believe they are rainbow unicorns.

Maybe with some deeper insight, knowledge they could get an understanding of what is really going on. But that could be a bad thing, right?

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by Gem

Many years ago I worked in horticulture and had to understand the conditions different plants need to grow. Some like shade and are burnt by the sun and others like full sun and grow weak in the shade. Some like a lot of water; others like dry conditions.


Given the right conditions, they grow well, so the gardener is concerned with the conditions for growth, and not the growth itself. Indeed, all one can do is provide the optimum conditions - one cannot make things grow.


There is no one 'optimum condition' that pertains to them all, but they are all cared for by the attentive gardener who produces the conditions in which each of them thrive.


The first step is the seed selection. We select the best seeds.
The second step is the soil preparation. We make the soil suitable.
The third step is the watering. We give the 'right' amount.
The last step is to care. We watch over it carefully.


The new seedling needs the most attention, checked on this two or three times a day - but the huge tree needs next to none for it has grown very strong. Indeed the huge tree gives a gardener a cool place to rest. They live together in a mutual appreciation, as the gardener selects from that tree the seeds of the seedlings to come.

Thank you Gem.

Notice you worked in a horticulture.

Horticulture is the branch of agriculture that deals with the art, science, technology, and business of growing plants.

So lots of knowledge and understanding on how to grow plants. Much like traditions let’s say in Buddhism.

the gardener is concerned with the conditions for growth, and not the growth itself.

There is no one 'optimum condition' that pertains to them all, but they are all cared for by the attentive gardener

So one could think of the garnder as the teacher or Master within the tradition.

The first step is the seed selection. We select the best seeds.
The second step is the soil preparation. We make the soil suitable.
The third step is the watering. We give the 'right' amount.
The last step is to care. We watch over it carefully.

The first step is about finding those precious few. Jesus talked about like this.

Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

The second and third steps are really about the various practices.

The last step is really about the role of the guru.

To take care, watch over and check in on your growth/progress.


We can see from your story where knowledge from time tested methods can help grow plentiful crops.

Thank you. :)

[sky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Thank you Gem.

Notice you worked in a horticulture.



So lots of knowledge and understanding on how to grow plants. Much like traditions let’s say in Buddhism.



So one could think of the garnder as the teacher or Master within the tradition.



The first step is about finding those precious few. Jesus talked about like this.

Jesus said, "Look, the sower went out, took a handful (of seeds), and scattered (them). Some fell on the road, and the birds came and gathered them. Others fell on rock, and they didn't take root in the soil and didn't produce heads of grain. Others fell on thorns, and they choked the seeds and worms ate them. And others fell on good soil, and it produced a good crop: it yielded sixty per measure and one hundred twenty per measure."

The second and third steps are really about the various practices.

The last step is really about the role of the guru.

To take care, watch over and check in on your growth/progress.


We can see from your story where knowledge from time tested methods can help grow plentiful crops.

Thank you. :)

' We can see from your story where knowledge from time tested methods can help grow plentiful crops.'

Yes time tested methods definitely yeald plentiful crops.

Must sort my pesky weeds out though, both inside and out We could look at consciousness as a garden, and learn to water the positive seeds and flowers by attending to them. I have enough weeds and don’t need to encourage more to grow. But saying that some weeds do look attractive and I presume that's the trap....

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by sky123

' We can see from your story where knowledge from time tested methods can help grow plentiful crops.'

Yes time tested methods definitely yeald plentiful crops.

Must sort my pesky weeds out though, both inside and out We could look at consciousness as a garden, and learn to water the positive seeds and flowers by attending to them. I have enough weeds and don’t need to encourage more to grow. But saying that some weeds do look attractive and I presume that's the trap....

Very well said and worth repeating.

Thank you.

[Rain95]

Beliefs, opinions, and thoughts are not you. They are things you are paying attention to. That's all. If you stop paying attention to them, you are still here.

Words in a book, thoughts from others, things saint and sages have written or said, everything that exists in this world as physical objects, as knowledge, as things to read or see or think about. None of that is you or me. They are things we pay attention to. If we stop paying attention to them, making them a part of our experience, we are still here.

The me that exists apart from all that, that is the me to discover. That is Buddhism. That is emptiness and silence and peace and transformation of consciousness. That me can choose what it pays attention to, through discernment and wisdom, and thus end inner and outer conflict and self caused suffering.

It can't be found in words or books or thoughts, it is only found by being so awake in this current moment, that one sees things as they are, in their totality, and in that seeing, one knows what the sages were speaking of, were writing about.

Anyone can find this thing and be selfless. It does not require anything to achieve. Just love, an open, humble, and non-judgemental heart. Everyone already has this perfect love in them, it's just covered up sometimes as we put our attention on other things.

Everything is a matter of what we are doing right now, in this moment. Nothing else matters.

[Rain95]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Emptiness is a fullness not an absence of some thing.

What is it full of?

It is the absence of something. It's the absence of ignorance.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Rain95

What is it full of?

It is the absence of something. It's the absence of ignorance.

Not in Buddhism. Emptiness is fullnes as it is empty of a separate self and full of everything else.