Observer vs Observed

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Shivani Devi

When it is warm or cool, it is neither hot nor cold.
When an angle is at 45 degrees, it is neither vertical nor horizontal.
When something is in the middle, it is neither on the bottom nor on the top.

I could go on...

Duality only exists when two extremes exist...like 'black' and 'white' totally neglecting the infinite 'shades of grey' in between (and there are more than 50 of them). LOL

It is only false human logic which categorises things according to its polar opposite, when there exists a vast array of things 'in between' and the whole inclusion of the subset in relation to any point on the 'number line' between "0" and "1" is what non-duality is all about.

I would not call it false human logic. I call it what it is and that is instinct or a habit and every animal has instincts, including us humans. The purpose of animal instincts is for the animal to survive it's environment out in nature, the jungle etc etc. we humans do not need to survive out in nature, the jungle etc etc (anymore) so the purpose of us humans is to evolve by overcoming our animal Instincts. Our human instinct is mental duality/conditional love of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain that is based on value-Thinking/having thoughts of I (the ego) somehow/someway value this or that therefore, I love/hate this or that or I like/dislike this or that, and thinking this or that is good/bad or positive/negative. Us humans are able to be aware of and overcome our animal instincts while other animals are not able to be aware of and overcome their animal instincts. All animals have an ego an I, but different types of species/types of animals have different information, memories etc etc stored in their subconscious mind because they are born differently and are raised differently.

[r6r6]

MikeS80--Male and female-the ying and the yang is duality too[
Some dualities are duals and complementaries and the above male and female is one example. They are not opposites. Fungi cna have 1000s of sexes.

Some duals are opposites of charge, spin or some propperty.

90 degreeness + is more complementary and not as diametric opposites such as 180 apart is diametric opposites of duality ex positive peak curvature of a torus vs peak of negative curvature of the same torus are 180 degree opposite duality.

Shivani misses the point in those complementary duals vs diametric opposites or motion property opposites


Females are more complex than males and that bilateral thinking can work against them sometimes, for what ever reason. Ego may be one of those reasons.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

All animals have an ego an I, but different types of species/types of animals have different information, memories etc etc stored in their subconscious mind because they are born differently and are raised differently.

Maybe to some degree, but a sponge is ananimal and I doubt it has much if any degree of ego{ i }.

Bilateral animals will have the best chance of having access to an ego *i*.

Here is a analogy that may apply.

Mineral >< virus{ RNA or DNA, never both } >< biological cell
....|........................|.................... ........................|
Sponge >< ......bilateral animal *i* .............><...bilateral human {* i *}

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

MikeS80--Male and female-the ying and the yang is duality too[
Some dualities are duals and complementaries and the above male and female is one example. They are not opposites. Fungi cna have 1000s of sexes.

Some duals are opposites of charge, spin or some propperty.

90 degreeness + is more complementary and not as diametric opposites such as 180 apart is diametric opposites of duality ex positive peak curvature of a torus vs peak of negative curvature of the same torus are 180 degree opposite duality.

Shivani misses the point in those complementary duals vs diametric opposites or motion property opposites


Females are more complex than males and that bilateral thinking can work against them sometimes, for what ever reason. Ego may be one of those reasons.

Male is the opposite of female and vice versa and male and female compliment each other for no reason other than to survive/reproduce. The duality that we find in nature and in the physical universe that we humans have no control over has nothing to do with our spirituality except that the creator (consciousness) created the universe and everything and everyone in the physical universe via the big bang. We humans are able to be aware of, control , prevent and overcome the duality we create with our duality way of thinking/thoughts.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Maybe to some degree, but a sponge is ananimal and I doubt it has much if any degree of ego{ i }.

Bilateral animals will have the best chance of having access to an ego *i*.

Here is a analogy that may apply.

Mineral >< virus{ RNA or DNA, never both } >< biological cell
....|........................|.................... ........................|
Sponge >< ......bilateral animal *i* .............><...bilateral human {* i *}

I was talking about animals that have a brain thus has a subconscious mind. With the sponge example you gave, the same could be said about any plant, like a tree. A sponge is more like a plant. A sponge like a plant can't/doesn't move from one place to another place.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

The duality that we find in nature and in the physical universe that we humans have no control over has nothing to do with our spirituality except that the creator (consciousness) created the universe and everything and everyone in the physical universe via the big bang. We humans are able to be aware of, control , prevent and overcome the duality we create with our duality way of thinking/thoughts.

This is where you are misunderstanding. Non-duality is exactly addressing object duality, of which our bodies and every other physical object (and non-physical too) are a part of. It's about identifying with the One subject instead of one of the many objects. That's non-duality in a nutshell.

There is no pot, only the clay. There is no necklace, only the gold. Clay can exist without the pot. The pot cannot exist without clay. Gold can exist without the necklace. The necklace cannot exist without gold.

By saying the physical realm is outside of the scope of non-duality you are in fact practicing some form of dualism. You are placing all the importance on thoughts, emotions and ego. They are objects too and part of the duality.

Observed (objects) vs. Observer (Witness). The prior are all parts of the duality, that latter is the non-duality.

[r6r6]

MikeS80...Male is the opposite of female

In some ways and not others ergo they are complementaries, they complement each other more than being opposites.

and vice versa and male and female compliment each other for no reason other than to survive/reproduce.

There are many example of how male and female are complementaries not opposites. More complementary than opposites.

We humans are able to be aware of, control , prevent and overcome the duality we create with our duality way of thinking/thoughts.

Gravity ( ) is the only force that overcomes all dualities of Universe.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is where you are misunderstanding. Non-duality is exactly addressing object duality, of which our bodies and every other physical object (and non-physical too) are a part of. It's about identifying with the One subject instead of one of the many objects. That's non-duality in a nutshell.

There is no pot, only the clay. There is no necklace, only the gold. Clay can exist without the pot. The pot cannot exist without clay. Gold can exist without the necklace. The necklace cannot exist without gold.

By saying the physical realm is outside of the scope of non-duality you are in fact practicing some form of dualism. You are placing all the importance on thoughts, emotions and ego. They are objects too and part of the duality.

Observed (objects) vs. Observer (Witness). The prior are all parts of the duality, that latter is the non-duality.

I do not know how you see/perceive that I am saying the physical realm is outside of the scope of non-duality and how you see I am placing all importance on thoughts, emotions and ego (except for us to learn from them for us humans to overcome them and evolve as humans) in the comment of mine you quoted, I said nothing at all like that and I said our thoughts are what the ego causes/creates the duality. And also when I have said the present moment-the right here and right now is non-duality itself. I also do not mean the ego is a bad/negative thing that needs us to overcome. The ego is able to be balanced/neutralized and be one/integrated with non-duality via the present moment thus operate though thoughts that come from intuition/consciousness/non-duality/unconditional love/the present moment, instead of thoughts that come from past memory and time (knowledge, beliefs, likes/dislikes, love/hate etc etc). Living by past memory, dualistic beliefs, knowledge and likes/dislikes and love/hate in the present moment makes no sense and is futile.

I understand clearly but you are missing the main point of how the ego-the I, the thinker thinks about physical objects. Yes, the observer observes the objects in the physical universe, but the ego-the I, the thinker is what labels, names, catorgorizes, compares, separates and etc etc depending on the situation and puts the the physical objects in words to describe the physical objects thus causes/creates the duality. The words/names/labels we human give to the physical objects, are not the physical objects, the physical objects just is/just exists in the eternal, deathless, non-duality present moment-the right here and right now- when we do not/are not comparing, labeling etc etc physical objects. Labeling, comparing and etc prevents us humans from being fully aware in the eternal, deathless and non-duality present moment-the right here and right now because the labeling, naming comparing and what have you of the physical objects puts an image in our minds/gives us thoughts of the physical objects. Lets use the republicans and the democrats as an example. Who/what are the republicans and the democrats? The republicans and the democrats is a label for 2 different political parties who want the same thing/power. The republicans and the democrats are people who thinks their political ideas/concepts (based on the ego and thought) are better than the other so the democrats compare themselves to Republicans to other democrats to try to win votes, support, campaign funding/donations etc from the people and the republicans do the same thing to democrats, and the democrats hate the republicans and vice versa because the democrats do not like the same things the republicans like and vice versa and both political parties have opposite beliefs thus opposite political ideas/concepts that are based on thought and duality. Now, If you are interested in politics and you are either a republican or a democrat, You will not be fully aware/conscious in the present moment to see through all of the duality, drama, madness and chaos the republicans and the democrats create because you will be too busy being a participant in or spectator of all the political drama, madness and chaos both the democrats and the republicans create. This example applies to most, if not all relationships the ego has with and in the physical universe. The object is the object, not the descriptive word/label of the object. The universe is the universe. The universe is not the word universe.

[r6r6]

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I was talking about animals that have a brain thus has a subconscious mind. With the sponge example you gave, the same could be said about any plant, like a tree. A sponge is more like a plant. A sponge like a plant can't/doesn't move from one place to another place.

Jelly-fish have no brains and they move. They are not like a sponge or a tree in that sense.

Gravity it the only force phenomena that unifies all dualities as one, however, Gravity ( ) has the dual Dark Energy )( force phenomena that I believe is also a diametric opposite of Gravity.

...concave >)< convex.....is inherent duality of curved Space ( )( ) and Time /\/\/\/\

Male is outy { extroverted phyiscal } via testes and penis

Female is inny { introvertex physical } via ovaries and vagina

Females have a womb and males have no counter part. At best we may say male has a prostate gland inside.

Some animals ex bilateral animals tend more towards loving their young in caring ways.

Jellyfish and some other animals just drop eggs here or there and they may or may not get fertilized by sperm with the parents not involved after that.

The dualities within Universe are many.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by r6r6r

Jelly-fish have no brains and they move. They are not like a sponge or a tree in that sense.

Gravity it the only force phenomena that unifies all dualities as one, however, Gravity ( ) has the dual Dark Energy )( force phenomena that I believe is also a diametric opposite of Gravity.

...concave >)< convex.....is inherent duality of curved Space ( )( ) and Time /\/\/\/\

Male is outy { extroverted phyiscal } via testes and penis

Female is inny { introvertex physical } via ovaries and vagina

Females have a womb and males have no counter part. At best we may say male has a prostate gland inside.

Some animals ex bilateral animals tend more towards loving their young in caring ways.

Jellyfish and some other animals just drop eggs here or there and they may or may not get fertilized by sperm with the parents not involved after that.

The dualities within Universe are many.

Like I said, I was talking about animals with brains. Do you know how or why a jellyfish moves without you coming to a limiting conclusions/concepts based on assumptions/presumptions? No you can't because you are not a jellyfish. All assumptions, presumptions, conclusions and concepts are limiting because once you come to a conclusion, you form a concept/belief thus, you stop searching for the truth.