the darkness

[running]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

I agree with running that the state of bliss is a becoming, meaning that there is no doing involved once in the divine love energy stream that makes us bliss enabled. After a while in due course of the assimilation, the bliss is in permanence irrespective of external circumstances (don’t know if extreme circumstances may impact though).

***

extreme can become no issue. at some point the defense mechanism reverses from closing to opening more. that has been my experince. thus when i get scared the bliss becomes stronger.

[running]

Originally Posted by ketzer

We experience many things as separate from ourselves, including other beings. However, if one is a believer in the oneness of all things, then this separation must also be seen as illusion. All of the forms we experience arise from the empty formless void of our own consciousness, and when we no longer hold them in our awareness they dissolve back into where they came from. Even the perception of other beings will merge back into where they came from, the oneness that is formless darkness that is you.

Now as far as the Jellyfish go, in addition to the fact that they do look rather angelic floating around in the abyss, Uma makes a good point,

did you have peanut butter and jellyfish sandwiches for dinner? Or maybe nutella rather than peanut butter, it is darker.

if you break it down to the smallest common denominator. the point in it all. things happen that cause one to surrender. in life. as in visions. snakes last night. jelly fish the other.

i mentioned this because it was peculiar experince. to analyse it to much is really missing the point. fine if people do. i dont care. but to be clear its about the surrender to greater depth of joy and silence. as intuition said way back when i started my journey. everything else in a sense is nothing more than ornaments and decorations. from my perspective. not to get caught up in to much if at all. but everybody is on their own journey.

[running]

whether i agree or disagree with anyone's comment. thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I still have a diary of such experiences of mine from decades ago. The interesting thing is that as I go through the record I see that I had an interpretation then, and over the years I have witnessed my interpretations change.

This, for me, is the result of growth.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by davidsun

... based both on my understanding pertaining to soul development ...

Just so people understand what I think is the 'forward direction' of what I call 'soul evolution' (which is why I personally think and believe spirit 'incarnates' in 'world'ly settings), here's something I wrote in my treatise:

To the degree that, as a result of continuing to mentally and emotionally process our personal experiences, we become aware of ( i.e. consciously ‘awaken’ to) the fact that all our lives are (in other words, all Life is) basically coextant, the ‘sense’ we have of our own ‘i’dentity expands to become other-inclusive. And, as we then realize that just focusing on things by and for the benefit of our ‘own’ selves simply results in our (delusionally!) living in personally ‘i’solating thought-and-feeling ‘bubbles’, we may (logically then) choose to transcend (i.e., rise ‘above’ and evolve ‘beyond’) the limitations of whatever self*ish perceptions and tendencies at that point, as a result of past personal and social conditioning, continue to ‘govern’ and (so, in effect) ‘imprison’ us, and then more and more ‘freely’ grow to become more and more loving and enjoying of our ‘neighbors’ as our ‘selves’ (as advocated in Mark 12:31) in ever-widening, more and more Life‑embracing circles, and therefore and thereby (in due course) fully execute our innate Source-code ‘program’ to maximally experience and express Love and Joy in relationship to and with others. This, instead of just partially doing so by way of continuing to operate as the same ‘old’ ego‑‘i’dentity configurations focused on reaping and dispensing whatever Love and Joy ‘perks’ we (as a result of prior personal conditioning) happen to at any given point … for however long we may continue to live (as such☺ that is!)."

Here's more from the same treatise which may help people who may be interested in doing so to understand what I think and why:

"Souls ‘graduate’ from Earthly-life’s ‘school’ when their reincarnational learning and development ‘curriculum’ has thus been completed. Having realized their Cosmic ‘I’dentity (termed ‘Christhood’ by some and spoken of as [every]one’s ‘Buddha Nature’ by others) to be The Spirit of Life Itself, such souls operationally function as full-fledged colleagues of what Jesus referenced as ‘the Father’ from then on. Those who have grasped the fact that the pronouns I and me as used in Jesus’ statements actually reference The Entity (i.e., the entirety) of Life’s Flow – Why? Because, as elucidated in Chapter 1, he personally completely ‘i’dentified with It! – who now also grok the fact that the above-described reincarnational learning-and‑development-leading-to-graduation process is what ‘leads’ to such collegial recombination, will have no trouble recognizing that it is said all‑encompassing Flow-phenom, and not himself personally, that Jesus was referencing when he emphatically declared: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me!” (John 14:6)"

and

"Now, everything and so everyone in existence (i.e ‘in’ the realm of Creation) is an expression and so an extension of said Father’s (i.e., The Creator’s) Being. So nothing and no one can ever really be separate from ‘Him’ in the first place. What the idea that one may ‘come unto’ ‘the Father’ as a soul stems from is the ‘higher order’ exponential (as in f(x)= x to the nth power) growth‑capacity referencing matrixial truth that one may, by (way of) participating in said reincarnational learning and development process (eventually) become aware of one’s ‘Oneness’ with ‘the Father’ and so, possibly, electively choose to refine one’s motivation and improve the quality of one’s engagement with Life and others in It with the aim of becoming, and thereby actually (eventually) ‘grow’ into being, a full‑fledged partner in said “Father’s” Love and Joy ‘business’ venture. It is (only!) by repeatedly incarnating as (student) ‘drivers’ in Love and Joy experience-and-expression-capable (body) ‘vehicles’, learning from their successes as well as their failures and consequently becoming more expansively aware and broadly capable along said ‘way’, that souls may (eventually) reach the point where they meaningfully comprehend, integrally embrace and consciously choose to act in accord with the fact that the gestalts of their and others’ selfhoods are really subsidiary ‘i’dentities spawned and animated by our ‘Father’ for the purpose of effectuating and further exploring (as yet) unrealized Love and Joy experience↔expression possibilities. They thereby enter ‘into’ conscious communion with The Life of said 'Father' and then, assuming they continue to function in such ‘unified’ mode (this always remains a matter of choice), ‘eternally’ live so thereafter."

As I said, I think souls may also 'devolve' and so move away from and even (ultimately) preclude such conscious 'unification' - which is what I interpret 'darkness' (as a dream symbol) to generally represent.

Please note: I do not think there is any 'must' in this regard. As I also say in the same treatise: "A soul’s capacities ... would never develop otherwise; albeit [the ones I speak of] are just a couple of a whole host of psychospiritual awareness and adeptitude based capabilities which must be conscientiously directed and devotionally deployed in service of Life Itself for a nodal soul to transcendentally e‧merge from the ‘womb’ of its embryonic other-dependency and infantile selfishness (note: I use the word must here only to state what is functionally necessary for such outcome, not to assert any kind of moralistic ‘should’ in this completely free-choice regard.)"

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

Just so people understand what I think is the 'forward direction' of what I call 'soul evolution' (which is why I personally think and believe spirit 'incarnates' in 'world'ly settings), here's something I wrote in my treatise:

To the degree that, as a result of continuing to mentally and emotionally process our personal experiences, we become aware of ( i.e. consciously ‘awaken’ to) the fact that all our lives are (in other words, all Life is) basically coextant, the ‘sense’ we have of our own ‘i’dentity expands to become other-inclusive. And, as we then realize that just focusing on things by and for the benefit of our ‘own’ selves simply results in our (delusionally!) living in personally ‘i’solating thought-and-feeling ‘bubbles’, we may (logically then) choose to transcend (i.e., rise ‘above’ and evolve ‘beyond’) the limitations of whatever self*ish perceptions and tendencies at that point, as a result of past personal and social conditioning, continue to ‘govern’ and (so, in effect) ‘imprison’ us, and then more and more ‘freely’ grow to become more and more loving and enjoying of our ‘neighbors’ as our ‘selves’ (as advocated in Mark 12:31) in ever-widening, more and more Life‑embracing circles, and therefore and thereby (in due course) fully execute our innate Source-code ‘program’ to maximally experience and express Love and Joy in relationship to and with others. This, instead of just partially doing so by way of continuing to operate as the same ‘old’ ego‑‘i’dentity configurations focused on reaping and dispensing whatever Love and Joy ‘perks’ we (as a result of prior personal conditioning) happen to at any given point … for however long we may continue to live (as such☺ that is!)."

Here's more from the same treatise which may help people who may be interested in doing so to understand what I think and why:

"Souls ‘graduate’ from Earthly-life’s ‘school’ when their reincarnational learning and development ‘curriculum’ has thus been completed. Having realized their Cosmic ‘I’dentity (termed ‘Christhood’ by some and spoken of as [every]one’s ‘Buddha Nature’ by others) to be The Spirit of Life Itself, such souls operationally function as full-fledged colleagues of what Jesus referenced as ‘the Father’ from then on. Those who have grasped the fact that the pronouns I and me as used in Jesus’ statements actually reference The Entity (i.e., the entirety) of Life’s Flow – Why? Because, as elucidated in Chapter 1, he personally completely ‘i’dentified with It! – who now also grok the fact that the above-described reincarnational learning-and‑development-leading-to-graduation process is what ‘leads’ to such collegial recombination, will have no trouble recognizing that it is said all‑encompassing Flow-phenom, and not himself personally, that Jesus was referencing when he emphatically declared: “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me!” (John 14:6)"

and

"Now, everything and so everyone in existence (i.e ‘in’ the realm of Creation) is an expression and so an extension of said Father’s (i.e., The Creator’s) Being. So nothing and no one can ever really be separate from ‘Him’ in the first place. What the idea that one may ‘come unto’ ‘the Father’ as a soul stems from is the ‘higher order’ exponential (as in f(x)= x to the nth power) growth‑capacity referencing matrixial truth that one may, by (way of) participating in said reincarnational learning and development process (eventually) become aware of one’s ‘Oneness’ with ‘the Father’ and so, possibly, electively choose to refine one’s motivation and improve the quality of one’s engagement with Life and others in It with the aim of becoming, and thereby actually (eventually) ‘grow’ into being, a full‑fledged partner in said “Father’s” Love and Joy ‘business’ venture. It is (only!) by repeatedly incarnating as (student) ‘drivers’ in Love and Joy experience-and-expression-capable (body) ‘vehicles’, learning from their successes as well as their failures and consequently becoming more expansively aware and broadly capable along said ‘way’, that souls may (eventually) reach the point where they meaningfully comprehend, integrally embrace and consciously choose to act in accord with the fact that the gestalts of their and others’ selfhoods are really subsidiary ‘i’dentities spawned and animated by our ‘Father’ for the purpose of effectuating and further exploring (as yet) unrealized Love and Joy experience↔expression possibilities. They thereby enter ‘into’ conscious communion with The Life of said 'Father' and then, assuming they continue to function in such ‘unified’ mode (this always remains a matter of choice), ‘eternally’ live so thereafter."

As I said, I think souls may also 'devolve' and so move away from and even (ultimately) preclude such conscious 'unification' - which is what I interpret 'darkness' (as a dream symbol) to generally represent.

Please note: I do not think there is any 'must' in this regard. As I also say in the same treatise: "A soul’s capacities ... would never develop otherwise; albeit [the ones I speak of] are just a couple of a whole host of psychospiritual awareness and adeptitude based capabilities which must be conscientiously directed and devotionally deployed in service of Life Itself for a nodal soul to transcendentally e‧merge from the ‘womb’ of its embryonic other-dependency and infantile selfishness (note: I use the word must here only to state what is functionally necessary for such outcome, not to assert any kind of moralistic ‘should’ in this completely free-choice regard.)"

this is why from where i stand its important when seeking a master, guru, or the like that through presence one can experience ones soul. otherwise you may get caught up in what looks like to me, for lack of a better phrase, a great deal of mental masturbation. a real guru teaches through experience.

there are many today that are the real deal and through presence one could tell. if open enough. jesus was real for example if his disciples through him experienced their own soul. the non dual experience of bliss and silence. which is the way.

[django]

Originally Posted by running

this is why from where i stand its important when seeking a master, guru, or the like that through presence one can experience ones soul. otherwise you may get caught up in what looks like to me, for lack of a better phrase, a great deal of mental masturbation. a real guru teaches through experience.

there are many today that are the real deal and through presence one could tell. if open enough. jesus was real for example if his disciples through him experienced their own soul. the non dual experience of bliss and silence. which is the way.

Hi running, in your OP you say "there was feeling of a deep deadness of strong joy. dissolving and sucking up the things into nothingness."
I don't understand how you're using deadness in relation to strong joy, can you clarify this a bit?

BTW I don't think that the Jesus message was to experience either bliss or silence, it sounds more Hindu or Buddhist to me if anything.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by running

this is why from where i stand its important when seeking a master, guru, or the like that through presence one can experience ones soul. otherwise you may get caught up in what looks like to me, for lack of a better phrase, a great deal of mental masturbation. a real guru teaches through experience.

there are many today that are the real deal and through presence one could tell. if open enough. jesus was real for example if his disciples through him experienced their own soul. the non dual experience of bliss and silence. which is the way.

I appreciate the fact that what I am into looks like its that to you. Here's what I 'see' what you are into:

"Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as**advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is**well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical (including 'bliss') regard."

Each to his or her own 'taste', aye what?

[running]

Originally Posted by django

Hi running, in your OP you say "there was feeling of a deep deadness of strong joy. dissolving and sucking up the things into nothingness."
I don't understand how you're using deadness in relation to strong joy, can you clarify this a bit?

BTW I don't think that the Jesus message was to experience either bliss or silence, it sounds more Hindu or Buddhist to me if anything.

deadness in that it was like being put to sleep in it to help it work its way deeper into the system.

jesus is up for interpretation since he is no longer alive. i say what i say because its likely he was far along on the path. like many gurus today. where in their presence one may experience bliss and or silence.

[running]

Originally Posted by davidsun

I appreciate the fact that what I am into looks like its that to you. Here's what I 'see' what you are into:

"Now, whether they present themselves as being ‘religious’, ‘spiritual’, ‘philosophical’ or just plain ‘psychological’, all psychospiritually oriented wisdom schools and teachers list a hierarchy of goals to aim for as well as**advocate specific approaches or methods whereby aspirations in said regards may be functionally actualized as part of their curriculum. Which is**well and good for beginning student‑learners, but the fact is that the superordinate Realm (i.e. Reality) of Love and Joy’s Being-n-Doing is far too extensive (besides being ever‑expanding!) for there to be an ‘ultimate’ Love and Joy destiny or ‘best’ Love and Joy path (or set of paths) whereby one may get to any such imagined Love and Joy ‘mountain top’. Though many have historically (often quite productively!) ‘dutifully’ focused on and committed themselves to following ‘leader’ promulgated guidelines and implementing ‘teacher’ provided instructions as well as devoted themselves to supporting group-movements stemming therefrom with Love and Joy related objectives in mind and heart, the iconoclastic truth is that thinking, feeling, believing and acting on such basis, if such modus operandi is strictly persisted in, is bound to end up being just as limiting of the experience and expression of Love and Joy as the ‘artistic’ experience and expression of a would‑be artist would be (limited) if s/he were to persist in thinking, feeling, believing and operating on the premise that there was a ‘better than all others’ kind of art and, in that case, just one ‘best’ method or ‘best set’ of methods wherewith and whereby s/he could (or, worse, should!) relate to and engage with creative possibilities in any topical (including 'bliss') regard."

Each to his or her own 'taste', aye what?

everything can be explained by actual expereince. something a real guru can offer if one is open enough. or through some other means. trying to know something from the mind i dont see being very productive.

put it another way. the mind will always think in cause and effect. because that is what it witnesses in life. beyond the mind is a paradox. joy and silence for no reason. that is just its nature. its a destroyer of the mind in that it makes no sense from the minds perspective. but the mind is limited to only knowing what it has previously experienced. thus it takes experience for the mind to fathom such a possibility of joy and silence that neither comes and goes, that does not grow tired of, is not in judgement, but quenches ones mind and body effortlessly without missing a beat.