God & Magick

Originally Posted by Naddread

I don't think the difference between "white" and "black" magick (I prefer Magick and Sorcery, but, eh, tomayto...tomarto My use of white and black magic is because it clearly shows the difference. Also black magic is sometimes referred to as the black arts. But sorcery is what it is.) is solely based on intention. As the saying goes "The road to hell is paved by good intention". People should come to a full understanding of the Laws they are playing around with and that includes a deep understanding of morality i.e. the High Law. I agree. However, once the laws are understood, the results of applying them are no longer magic. A match to a person who has never seen one may think it is magic while to the person lighting the match it is not.Good intention is not good enough. Especially when working with the subtle powers of the universe.

If one intends good but has anything less then 100% understanding of the moral implications of the situation they are attempting to effect then they are walking a slippery slope to say the least. I would add that it is not only moral implications.

This is the "God" part of Magick as far as I see it. "God's" Magick is the only Magick there is. As we are beings of Free Will we have the opportunity to co-create. Creating in harmony with Universal Law is "White Magick"or simply Magick and creating in disharmony is "Black Magick" or Sorcery. Agree. Only a few if any people know the universal laws to the extent required.

~Naddread~

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I take God as the own of magick, my reason to defend that is that, all miraculous intervention of God happens in magical way. There is no religion ever formed without magic in its formation from the beginning so God is the controller of magick world.

[charly233]

It seems to me that on the one hand you do not need magic if you are at one with the god/goddess. On the other hand the god/goddess is pure magic.

When you are god conscious then everything in life works out perfectly without any need of rituals, spells and ceremonies. There is no need to manipulate the universe when you are god and when the god/goddess is on your side.

There is no need of magic because everything is magical. But it can be fun to perform magic and spells. And God loves us to have fun. Everything in life is a miracle. There is no dilemma. Everyone is God and the god/goddess is all of it.

I do perform little spells and rituals every now and again which help to remind me that I am God. For example I ask Jesus to help me. And I call upon the assistance of the Goddess. I also use affirmations as a magical technique and apply the Law of Attraction.

Gratitude is perhaps the most powerful magic.

Something to remember is that the modern magic related Western paths, especially Wicca, drew from various esoteric Jewish & Christian traditions, all of which were related to each other.

Gardner, when developing what became Wicca, lifted heavily from the esoteric Christian Masons, as well as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and its offshoots, which were rooted in esoteric Judeo-Christian magic traditions such as Alchemy, Tarot, and so on, which were, in turn, rooted in Kabbalah. There's also a lot of Christian theologian George MacDonald's Celtic nature based spirituality in Wicca.

As Wicca spread to the US in the 1960s, a lot of local forms of Folk Christianity wound up worked into it. After all, there were no neo-pagan specialty shops in the '60s, so Wiccans in North America got their supplies from what was there, which meant Catholic botanicas, and Voodoo & Hoodoo suppliers. Voodoo, Hoodoo, and Latin-American folk Catholic practices happen to have Kabbalah as a part of them, as well.

So, modern neo-pagan magical practices are actually rooted in Jewish and esoteric & folk Christian practices that have been done for centuries. As one Irish Catholic I knew said regarding Wiccan magical rituals, "We've bee doing this since pagan times". :)

A nice thing about Kabbalah is that, because of its concept of God as being both Creator and Creation, encompassing everything, you can fit almost any tradition into it. The various gods and goddesses can have the same roles and functions that angels and saints do, which they pretty much do, anyway.

Perhaps from a gnostic viewpoint I see the Supreme Being as indifferent.

Religions have tried to outlay what is good and evil but refuse to analyse evil enough to be useful. It usually means offending their doctrinaire. There are many shades of evil from "necessary evil" through to "the absence of good".

Religions are forced to invoke the God paradox - the Creator of everything (including evil, which once meant esoteric knowledge, inter alia. This is the Tree of Knowledge in Genesis). As such, according to most monotheistic religions, anyone seeking esoteric knowledge can be defined as evil. Why, I haven't a clue except that the practices that lead to individuals' abilities to use powers which they have earned usurp the orthodoxy that claims power for itself.

Whether magick is good or evil isn't a question to me. Orthodox religions have so obviously failed. One of their selling propositions was taking over the care of people's spirituality (much as the medical profession has taken over care of people's health) thus ensuring a dependence. But they can never really take over an individual's spirituality - this always dwells within the individual as only the individual can develop it. Certainly, some will develop it in accordance with established scriptures. Others won't be able to.

So, to me, magic/magick IS. It is neither good nor evil in itself (its colour will always be that of the practitioner's intent), once one steps outside of the constrictions of religion. Originally there were universal wisdoms but cravings for power etc led to establishing doctrines that suppress individuals' spiritual development rather than develop it (except along the axis of their doctrine).

Magick is from the mind and God is unrelated. So no, I would say they are not connected.

[norseman]

One thing to bear in mind re: Magic. "Magical" acts generally involves change of one type or another. Given that requirement, magic must involve the Laws of Thermodynamics and there will need be an input of energy from somewhere. The adept is not the originator but rather the channel for this energy, the fuse in the plug so to speak. Will and Intent shape the channel and the energy source is all around in the natural energies of Mother Earth i.e. NOT supernatural in any shape or form. So, God -v- Magic is not a natural equation.
This is an understanding that our ancestors had and it is one of the lost talents of Mankind. The loss being brought about when we lost touch with our Great Mother.

[Lilyth Von Gore]

I guess it depends on what God or Gods you follow,, really.
In Norse Heathenry, magick is heavily influenced by the deities. Any magick performed is always dedicated to a patron God or Goddess. Freyja, Odhinn, Freyr, Frigga and Eira all hold their own magickal abilities. Odhinn and Frigga can both see into the future, Freyr and his sister Freyja both practice magickal arts and Eira can heal with a single touch. Magick keeps the Gods young but not immortal through Idunns apples.
Loki can conjure fire, Skadi can control the Winter winds and the snow, Thor has power over thunder and lightning. All the Gods have magick of somesort. Do I believe magick and my Gods are connected? Yes.