What are the benefits to the soul for suffering in life?

Originally Posted by naturesflow

What is a soul?
Where does this come from in you to ask?

I've pondered this recently and sigh when saying it's has made me question my gnostic beliefs though I've found no answer yet - probably won't - looking into the neurophysiological possibilities.

We are born with our genes. They may contain "soul" material in the shape of handed down traits as well as the instructions for basic physical development. We simply don't know except they do bring hardware in the limbic system that controls basic drives and initial reactions to stimuli internal and external. Then research seems to agree that the earliest years of nurturing develop our neural growth substantially, the connections made, rate of development, etc.

Is the spark that sets this off "the soul" and does it diminish the value of the idea "soul" any? I don't think so. "Soul" becomes a label for "what is."

So then we move on to the practicalities of living. We'll face conflict often simply because we're all different, like-minds tend to congregate so we find ourselves . facing consensus sometimes against which we're at odds, community, societal values. We are softly coerced into "joining in" to survive - one feature of recovering a Self is understanding and being able to manipulate our way through. Sometimes we are SO at odds that we suffer, we question our being, values, ask questions like "am I wrong?"

Sometimes we can modify our thinking to adopt new roles and procedures to deal with dissonance, when we can't, we feel ostracised and negated. To me part of spiritual growth is exercising our creativity to make sense of such experiences and strategise a way to accommodate what was formerly "suffering". I don't see this as teaching our soul anything which, according to (for instance) gnostic beliefs, stays constant but rather building on the flow of our experiences, our souls (however you frame them - magical entities driven by some divine thing - or neurophysiological (which doesn't deny divine influence so far as what we actually know) intrinsically containing the means to do this. A person is victim of trauma but does this affect the most basic driver of our lives or is it assimilated as an overwhelming discord, completely at odds with our flow, and set aside as a "dark" experience that reaches far into our future reactions to events. When we pass on, is the totality of life experiences revalued as the soul and packaged together?

Seems a simple question that turns out complicated depending how deep one looks.

♥

Soul to me is the totality of all. It cannot be me or mine. Soul is. Infusing me with all that is infinite, eternal.
Everything else is fabricated.

Now it doesn't always feel like that and more often than not I get caught up in the perception of duality. Still me perceptional fabrication chooses to believe that Soul is so.

With love
Eelco

[Rah nam]

What is the soul? it seams to be part of the original question or at least related.
If we look in the physical verse for the soul we look in the wrong places.
Consciousness, and that is what the soul is, never enters the physical verse.
This is not entirely correct, consciousness feeds the physical verse, and as it crosses the threshold, it becomes energy. One place to look for consciousness would be the center of an atom. Consciousness feeds the atom, otherwise it would collapse.
Consciousness is not consciousness.
What I would term the soul is not connected to the physical body. The physical body is part of the planetary consciousness. The energy structure we call spirit is part of our soul and is fed by the soul.
So what are the realms called, where the soul or all consciousness resides in?
My soul simply calls it "no time" David Wilcock referred to it as the flip side of the universe when he talked about quantum physics in his earlier books.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I've pondered this recently and sigh when saying it's has made me question my gnostic beliefs though I've found no answer yet - probably won't - looking into the neurophysiological possibilities.

I ponder it too Lorelyen. I wondered about the difference between soul and spirit. Some believe one and the same, others see them as two separate aspects. I wonder if it is one of those things that ties into the mystery of life, even as people decide through their human experiences what it all means. You often hear things thrown around like, Soul mate, soul level healing, soul worker, soul retrieval, etc etc..For me the nature of my own journey, hasn't really shown me exactly what soul is even as I have ventured through many streams of myself connected to my human and spirit awareness. I have never really come across a soul awareness of myself but I do attempt to solve the mystery even so, because it tends to hold a important bearing upon many lives who relate to it. Perhaps the soul is the vessel that carries the "seeds of this life" that play out for whatever reason, as our piece of the whole? But then how does it come to be within the "one" born of those seeds?

We are born with our genes. They may contain "soul" material in the shape of handed down traits as well as the instructions for basic physical development. We simply don't know except they do bring hardware in the limbic system that controls basic drives and initial reactions to stimuli internal and external. Then research seems to agree that the earliest years of nurturing develop our neural growth substantially, the connections made, rate of development, etc.

Is the spark that sets this off "the soul" and does it diminish the value of the idea "soul" any? I don't think so. "Soul" becomes a label for "what is?"

I have heard it mentioned the soul is the source of our many lives, so perhaps their is a "carry over" before entering into this life of things to make conscious, heal or end cycles and that is the soul's mission? I have even pondered that we carry the seeds of our generational lineage as part of our "mission" into this world. It seems obvious to me that within my own life, there is the awareness that some of my family members had a more conscious path and life, of breaking free from conditioned patterns, myself included Others just live their life and experience themselves as things unfold. So all those things you mention that we are as a whole developed source, would become our life creation birthed into what is and what is going to be perhaps?Perhaps the soul decides what each one is going to experience as a sum of the whole? Or is that the spirit deciding? I often wonder why my life within my family has been as it is, a more conscious letting go and healing life path, where as others just seem to deal with life as things are and get on with things? What determines the unfolding of our life as it becomes?

So then we move on to the practicalities of living. We'll face conflict often simply because we're all different, like-minds tend to congregate so we find ourselves at odds with consensus and "the system of things" - community, society. We are softly coerced into "joining in" to survive - one feature of recovering a Self is understanding and being able to manipulate our way through. Sometimes we are SO at odds with events or "the system" that we suffer, we question what about ourselves is at odds, ask questions like "am I wrong?"

Well I suppose questioning is part of awakening to more and looking into your life beyond what is, so what decides in you compared to someone else who doesn't bother to even worry or look at things this way?

Sometimes we can modify our thinking to adopt new roles and procedures to deal with dissonance, when we can't, we feel ostracised and negated. To me part of spiritual growth is exercising our creativity to make sense of such experiences and strategise a way to accommodate what was formerly "suffering". I don't see this as teaching our soul anything which, according to (for instance) gnostic beliefs, stays constant but rather building on the flow of our experiences, our souls (however you frame them - magical entities driven by some divine thing - or neurophysiological) intrinsically containing the means to do this. A person is victim of trauma but does this affect the most basic driver of our lives or is it assimilated as an overwhelming discord, completely at odds with our flow, and set aside as a "dark" experience that reaches far into our future reactions to events. When we pass on, is the totality of life experiences revalued as the soul and packaged together?

Yes I wonder too if the totality of life experiences are revalued as the soul and packaged together. Lately I keep hearing in my head a song, which is playing over and over. "You only have one life". Often when I hear songs they hold a message for me in some form, so I am confused by this one. Does it mean I am opening to a new realization about this being my one life? It has felt like I am combining many lives at times, just through awareness of my own self healing process to end and reconnect without the suffering or pain body as I call it sometimes. As I have moved beyond family/generational healing I have opened to what appears to be past life? So these people become like close connections that I support or grow through as well. So where do all these seeds come from in me? Is it a soul that carries all seeds of potential in this way of opening and being more aware beyond just the family ties? I don't know. Those glimpses of life beyond my birth family awareness of myself, feels like I am being lead into a bigger picture of what family means in the greater context and what it means in relation to this life I am living. So if soul is moved into that realm of awareness then soul would be the interconnected weave and sum of all things that perhaps any one of us potentially can tap into, if open and more consciously aware of it? But then is the soul the decider of such things? If we are one big soul, what decides the creation of this life as part of that? I am rambling on and I don't quite know if I am making any sense even to myself...

There is sure to be a mad hatters tea party somewhere, I am off to find it. I think I am going mad and very much in need of tea ..:)

Oh I forgot to add this bit Lorelyen. What do you think about aspects of our reality already created on some level and we are bringing it to life in this world as a "real life manifestation and experience?" It seems I have connected to people who have proved this time and time again to me, in such detail and awareness of the totality of the experience. In some instances, details that were not even created, yet the clarity of awareness so clear of the whole unfolding, especially the people and surroundings.

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Burntfruit

We all suffer in life to a degree.

Some more than others, but from what I have read, Earth is a tough school.

If you suffer more than most due to illness or poverty etc, what is the benefit to the soul?

What happens to the soul due to the learning experience on Earth?

Hi Burntfruit,

'We' suffer, or rather our mind/vital/body does because of our ignorance. The soul proper does not suffer because it doesn't embody ignorance or limited ignorant cognition of reality, as it is fully identified, illumined by, and one with the Divine Consciousness of True Self, which is infinite and eternal.

If suffering has any value, it is a conditioning which leads to exhaustion, seeking for and invoking a better way (spirituality), which invariably leads to identifying with the soul's pov as a practical means.

The soul patiently supports the other instrumental 'parts' of the being in this journey as they acquire earthly experience (including suffering), more maturity, and eventually the realization of our true Identity. In this way the soul 'benefits' in that it brings the other instrumental parts of the being into alignment with, or surrender to its oneness with Spirit, thus fulfilling its ultimate purpose in differentiation.

Anything that helps in this progression is a valuable activity - such as prayer, meditation, or any service done consciously and deliberately as a consecrated act towards aligning with the purpose of the soul in eventually achieving this realization.

~ J

[lemex]

I've noticed using the word soul, not souls, implying there are no souls but all are soul. Question are there infinite souls or really one and only one with all the differences coming from our soul. Isn't the question then why the different aspects of the soul, itself. Is difference a reality or illusion then? When asked what is the benefit to soul. I know all thought it meant us and not soul. Obviously we are not the body and when a person dies, they do not return to soul because they are soul is what I'm hearing said. We are the soul that acts out in many different ways. The next question, is "the" soul perfect or as it appears imperfect to itself? For instance "I" know "I' can be different can the same be said of soul knowing this to. Soul talking to itself. In soul there is everything ranging from evil to good having no meaning what so ever?

[lemex]

Originally Posted by Jyotir

Hi Burntfruit,

'We' suffer, or rather our mind/vital/body does because of our ignorance. The soul proper does not suffer because it doesn't embody ignorance or limited ignorant cognition of reality, as it is fully identified, illumined by, and one with the Divine Consciousness of True Self, which is infinite and eternal.

If suffering has any value, it is a conditioning which leads to exhaustion, seeking for and invoking a better way (spirituality), which invariably leads to identifying with the soul's pov as a practical means.

The soul patiently supports the other instrumental 'parts' of the being in this journey as they acquire earthly experience (including suffering), more maturity, and eventually the realization of our true Identity. In this way the soul 'benefits' in that it brings the other instrumental parts of the being into alignment with, or surrender to its oneness with Spirit, thus fulfilling its ultimate purpose in differentiation.

Anything that helps in this progression is a valuable activity - such as prayer, meditation, or any service done consciously and deliberately as a consecrated act towards aligning with the purpose of the soul in eventually achieving this realization.

~ J

Your posts are always amazing. So what if a person harms another and neither soul (?) suffer, what about the act which is an illusion. Is there something about act that this is all about? Is suffering about learning and healing just as it is to the body.

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by lemex

Your posts are always amazing. So what if a person harms another and neither soul (?) suffer, what about the act which is an illusion. Is there something about act that this is all about? Is suffering about learning and healing just as it is to the body.

Excuse me for butting in, I hope you don't mind. Is the act and harm an illusion, or does awareness bring to this situation, an insight into the nature of what is as it is for each person aware. People can bring awareness to the whole situation, the act included to end it all in themselves. Wherever we hold on in ourselves is potential to bring peace and higher awareness to the situation more complete.

There could well be a few things occurring in this scenario you mention. You might have two people, who are caught up in the nature of harm as a way of life so they see it as normal and their suffering may not be noticed as suffering, but as something normal to them. Where as you or I looking in could/might label this as suffering or an illusion according to our awareness.

The other situation might be that one is aware of harm from another as something more, so their suffering through their awareness of that situation might lead them to take full responsibility for their part and recognise and end the suffering in themselves. In this view this person may not see it as suffering because they see how to bring peace to that experience in themselves. If one is evolved enough to understand the other as well, they would see it through the ignorance or blinded state that person would be in. (on some level of that act) and so they may forgive them. (they know not what they do)..So in this case the whole situation doesn't give rise to suffering but really an end to suffering through the one aware. As for the other, it could support them or it may not, it depends really.

It makes sense to end the suffering yourself in everyway you suffer and aware that you can be..

Originally Posted by Lorelyen

I've pondered this recently and sigh when saying it's has made me question my gnostic beliefs though I've found no answer yet - probably won't - looking into the neurophysiological possibilities.
♥

Hamerof and Penrose have some pretty cool material that might be worth checking out. Hamerof is an anaesthesiologist and Penrose is a Nobel Prize-winner, and what they have discovered is quantum-capable microtubules in the brain that are 'shielded' from the electrical activities. If you're looking for a scientific answer to Gnosticism, this is the closest I've come across - Gnosis and quantum entanglement? Entanglement with the field of probability also explains reality. And perhaps God.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

Excuse me for butting in, I hope you don't mind. Is the act and harm an illusion, or does awareness bring to this situation, an insight into the nature of what is as it is for each person aware. People can bring awareness to the whole situation, the act included to end it all in themselves. Wherever we hold on in ourselves is potential to bring peace and higher awareness to the situation more complete.

It makes sense to end the suffering yourself in everyway you suffer and aware that you can be..

Not at all, any input is welcome. This of course will include what one see's soul as. Wanted to say of the 2 scenarios brought up, I agree but I was talking about a 3rd. These 2 are important. However what if I (knowing) with knowledge harm, meaning I have an agenda. My focus was about suffering one's doesn't or shouldn't have to guess about as an observer, but confirmed by the person making it known is suffering though we are both talking about learning and doing. Stuff which goes on in the world a lot.

One of the benefits of suffering is understanding. My personal suffering has long ago been put away and I guess I simply know about it knowing I did not like it, so in a way it is not subjective but objective. I don't think I can ever put that away and in fact can be useful knowing about it. This is what I wonder, my perception of soul is it has (soul) knowledge. When talking about soul it is spiritual. Is this what we think, soul has knowledge. It is this knowledge that is superior to ours. We say we are here to learn because we are always learning. So are we here to learn to be more like the soul or the soul to learn to be more like the body?

Do we feel the souls perspective is not, wouldn't be that of the body, that (the) soul would not act like we do if we knew something what the soul knows. Is this the feeling generally thought, the soul is more like the H.S., something I've felt. The H.S. of the soul would be it's L.S., so in respect to even our H.S., I mean meaningless to the L.S. or that self we have not yet reached. The H.S. of the soul is more in the realm of godlike stuff (connection). The soul is an existent state.

Here's the dilemma, soul and learning. We say here we learn by duality but the soul does not understand duality obviously if it must learn. So who is to learn? I'm not sure reverse learning isn't happening and that to me is a benefit if that is happening. What the soul seems to lack is experience, not knowledge.

So is the soul perfect? We say duality teaches even though there is knowledge. Experience clarifies knowledge in the physical plane I think and may at the soul level as well. The same information at the spiritual level is at the physical level. Does it make us a better soul, a better person. The benefit is of course learning. We do not like the idea the soul is learning when it is suppose to be perfect. I think the binary soul concept may be in play.