Cause of existence

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Bohdiyana

I would say they don't see existence as negative, but see existence here as negative. I think it's more about we are here, in this "land of suffering" because of our nature or ignorance and negative karma. Our consciousness determines where we are born or live. So if we reach enlightenment and nirvana etc, purify what we are, then other realms are more suited to us. Basically, the earths energy is dense and course and is a low vibration and we are here because likes attract each other. We are of a lower vibration and consciousness so earth is where we are suited. As we raise our vibration or our nature, this attunes us to other worlds that are also of this vibration or nature. Buddhist give up desire. They don't seek money or fame or pleasure or other worldly things. Most of the societies and cultures of this place are built around seeking and acquiring these things. One can watch the news, or tv, or movies, to see why this place is viewed to be of a lower nature.

Even A mature person doesn't seek those things because they are selfish he sees that. Buddhism like you see this existence as negative and do not want to come back it seems. I wonder do they see creation as negative. Maya maybe. I think so.
It's either a very sad religion possibly for the depressed or his words like Christs have been misunderstood IMO

[Ground]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Bong

I quote it from internet:

The word suffering is sometimes used in the narrow sense of physical pain, but more often it refers to mental pain, or more often yet it refers to pain in the broad sense, i.e. to any unpleasant feeling, emotion or sensation. The word pain usually refers to physical pain, but it is also a common synonym of suffering. The words pain and suffering are often used both together in different ways. For instance, they may be used as interchangeable synonyms. Or they may be used in 'contradistinction' to one another, as in "pain is physical, suffering is mental", or "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional". Or they may be used to define each other, as in "pain is physical suffering", or "suffering is severe physical or mental pain".
%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Stress is optional invitation but not inevitable. I seldom stress it depends on how a person's outlook. It isn't a+b=c. It can be a+b=xyz....... That's mental stress is variable to different human.

Stress, i.e. dukkha, must be optional since otherwise buddhist liberation would not be possible. The buddha himself physically suffered from physical pain but without dukkha, i.e. without stress.

The Blessed One said, "When touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, were to shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pains of two arrows; in the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the uninstructed run-of-the-mill person sorrows, grieves, & laments, beats his breast, becomes distraught. So he feels two pains, physical & mental.
...
"Now, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones, when touched with a feeling of pain, does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. So he feels one pain: physical, but not mental. Just as if they were to shoot a man with an arrow and, right afterward, did not shoot him with another one, so that he would feel the pain of only one arrow. In the same way, when touched with a feeling of pain, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones does not sorrow, grieve, or lament, does not beat his breast or become distraught. He feels one pain: physical, but not mental.

...

The discerning person, learned,
doesn't sense a (mental) feeling of pleasure or pain:
This is the difference in skillfulness
between the sage & the person run-of-the-mill.

For a learned person
who has fathomed the Dhamma,
clearly seeing this world & the next,
desirable things don't charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His acceptance & rejection are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.

Knowing the dustless, sorrowless state,
he discerns rightly,
has gone, beyond becoming,
to the Further Shore.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....006.than.html

[Gem]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Given that a person doesn't desire not to be reborn, in order to entertain such a belief you either have to have great faith in it, great faith in something other than rebirth or a great dislike for life.
My life is one of suffering but also one of joy and beauty. I'm not rich and I've been poor. I have had sickness and health. I absolutely adore life and I can't imagine coming to dislike it.
I'm not looking for answers or truth here, I'm looking to understand this aspect of Buddhism from those who feel they understand it.
They even seem to desire to come to a place where even food is not enjoyed.
I wonder what the witness, the earth, thinks about one not wanting to come back lol

They describe suffering, not as illness, pain, old age and so forth per se, but acknowledge these as part of life, and basically summarise all that as displeasure/discomfort. Suffering (dukkha) also applies to life's pleasure, though similarly, not as pleasure itself.

Basically, it is said that there is consciousness of the senses, which all becomes feeling (sensation) - psychological reactivity of aversion/desire toward such sensations is suffering.

This is outlined in '12 Nadanas' for those who want to look into it. This is pretty good narrative here http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm#Feeling

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Gem

They describe suffering, not as illness, pain, old age and so forth per se, but acknowledge these as part of life, and basically summarise all that as displeasure/discomfort. Suffering (dukkha) also applies to life's pleasure, though similarly, not as pleasure itself.

Basically, it is said that there is consciousness of the senses, which all becomes feeling (sensation) - psychological reactivity of aversion/desire toward such sensations is suffering.

This is outlined in 'The 12 Formations' or '12 Nadanas' for those who want to look into it. This is pretty good narrative here http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/depend.htm#Feeling

That actually was my point. Anyone can define and eliminate suffering resulting from greed and compulsive desires but in Buddhism, it seems, the goal is to reach a state where you no longer enjoy a piece of cake or enjoy the beauty of life.

[Jeremy Bong]

Originally Posted by Ground

Stress, i.e. dukkha, must be optional since otherwise buddhist liberation would not be possible. The buddha himself physically suffered from physical pain but without dukkha, i.e. without stress.

Do you or you're agree with me I don't stress? Even my whole life I seldom stress that's why I disagreed with you. Liberation is another thing not connected to my suffering or not my suffering. Liberation is get rid of attachment or something not belong to me. But what I've I don't , only something I dislike or useless to me.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
Is this why Buddhists dont want to come back?

It is such a sad religion from my perspective but then again
I can't imagine what lies beyond existence.

Not at all.

One is stuck in the cycle of rebirth if they are still trapped in the local mind. They have no control over for instance how they are reborn.

The goal is to move beyond the local mind. Once that is achieved.. aka a high level bodhisattva one can choose ones rebirth.

Like the Buddha choose to be reborn to help others.

Existence is a gift and the fastest way to help others is to be reborn. Which is why you have beings like the Tibetans wanting to continue to be reborn to help others move forward on the path.

It is like a video game. You can just be one of the characters, you can progress along the path and create a super character or you can realize you are the game and can upgrade the game.. A Buddha is one that is beyond the game entirely.

Hope that helps.

[markings]

Originally Posted by BlueSky

Buddhism seems to teach that existence has a cause and that cause is clinging to existence, good or bad.
Is this why Buddhists dont want to come back?

The cause of existence can be found in natural laws and in living creatures in evolution.
Existence, especially as a human being, offers the best conditions to realize enlightenment, true insight into what the universe is and how it works. The 'negative' aspects like suffering are encouraging us to work towards liberation. In that sense they are entirely positive.

It is not that Buddhists do not want to come back but they see that once liberation is achieved there is no need to come back. So they work towards liberation which is striving, positive, forward looking. They do not work towards not coming back which would be resisting, negative and looking backwards.

The actual liberation itself then closes the door to coming back unless one makes a very special effort to do so.

[sky]

All sentient beings are trapped in the ocean of birth and death due to their karma. Karma is like the string that holds prayer beads together. The string connects all the beads; likewise, karma connects our lives from the past to the present and into the future, continuously causing us to be reborn in the six realms of existence.

Once you have escaped the Karmic cycle you reach Parinirvana and
are free from rebirth..

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Not at all.

One is stuck in the cycle of rebirth if they are still trapped in the local mind. They have no control over for instance how they are reborn.

The goal is to move beyond the local mind. Once that is achieved.. aka a high level bodhisattva one can choose ones rebirth.

Like the Buddha choose to be reborn to help others.

Existence is a gift and the fastest way to help others is to be reborn. Which is why you have beings like the Tibetans wanting to continue to be reborn to help others move forward on the path.

It is like a video game. You can just be one of the characters, you can progress along the path and create a super character or you can realize you are the game and can upgrade the game.. A Buddha is one that is beyond the game entirely.

Hope that helps.

Yes it does help...thank you!
Obviously I don't know how true that is but it makes sense and I can relate to it. I would add that I see the mind as something that expands so what we move beyond are that which limits such. The whole seeing the bottom of the lake thing.
I've

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by sky123

All sentient beings are trapped in the ocean of birth and death due to their karma. Karma is like the string that holds prayer beads together. The string connects all the beads; likewise, karma connects our lives from the past to the present and into the future, continuously causing us to be reborn in the six realms of existence.

Once you have escaped the Karmic cycle you reach Parinirvana and
are free from rebirth..

Trapped?????