Narcissism and Spiritual Materialism

[Being]

Originally Posted by Raziel

How do you believe that we transfer the capitalist system into resource based?

How do you believe that we get the many people this would take to achieve into the same page?

A lot of debate around this question for decades.

i don't think it is possible given the current general levels of human consciousness - we are headed (imo) to systemic ecosystem / civilisation collapse.

What specific Spiritual ideology would suit it best?

Not into ideologies. The perennial philosophy / wisdom, same as it always has been.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Being

A lot of debate around this question for decades.

i don't think it is possible given the current general levels of human consciousness - we are headed (imo) to systemic ecosystem / civilisation collapse.



Not into ideologies. The perennial philosophy / wisdom, same as it always has been.

thank you.

What advice would you give to the younger generation?

What wisdom would you impart/ recommend?

[Being]

Originally Posted by Raziel

thank you.

What advice would you give to the younger generation?

What wisdom would you impart/ recommend?

Be yourself & seek your truth.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Being

Be yourself & seek your truth.

I'm going to dig deep into the links you provided - thank you for those.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Being

i hope that you are all looking forward to global catastrophic systemic ecosystem & civilisation collapse, extinction of the species & a dead planet - because that is exactly where we are headed with the current system. Lets at least be honest about it all.

The above is an unsubstantiated/unsubstantiatable and quite 'jaundiced' (by pessimism!) projection IMO, though I wouldn't rule it out as a [u]possible[/] 'future' scenario myself.

Here are some excerpts from the book I wrote which argues that the history of (past) 'evolution' was and so the likely course of (future) 'evolution' on the planet (not that the process is ever a simple, 'straight line' affair mind you) will be:

"On a transpersonal scale, as everyone contributes to the co-motion, waves of thought, feeling and behavior ripple and ricochet around the globe, cumulatively adding to the vibration of the platform on which we stand, building in resonance as they sweep through the race. At present in particular, with populations soaring and availability diminishing, these are approaching a crescendo of intensity. Those who are conscientious are becoming more loving and co-ordinated in the process; those who are selfish, more paranoid and alienated. Those who are hopeful are buoyantly choosing paths of constructive action; those without hope are sinking deeper into depression and degeneracy. Tension is mounting as people take sides; polarities of attitude and expectancy are reaching extremes.

We are approaching a snapping point. Ultimately, triggered by ecological breakdown, consequences will be cataclysmic. Depending on whether aligned with positive or negative trends, some will move higher up on Life’s evolutionary ladder, others will fall—our dilemma will be resolved by a massive catharsis.

Take heed, for what you now choose affects, for better or worse, what happens in the future, not only to you but also to those who you are most cogently involved with. Since you are an integral part of Life’s process, you are bound to move and be moved, one way or another, by current developments and ongoing themes.

But also take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to ‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds."

and (the concept of 'reincarnation' may also be pertinent here:)

"We are entering another crucial phase of Life’s earthly development. Ecosystemic stress now makes radical change absolutely necessary. Only those [carriers of memes which] improve our conjoint condition will live on as part of the future. The destiny of all who don’t acknowledge and respond to what Life calls for is oblivion.

The logic is quite simple: Those who close their minds to what is really going on are bound to stray from Life’s path. Those who harden their hearts become stones in effect and go no further. Only those who recognize and responsively engage with the creative impulse within others around them drink “of the fountain of the water of Life freely” and flourish as resonant parts of the Whole.

It is true that remnants of selfishness are still alive and kicking. Aside from myriad lesser expressions, dinosaurean characteristics and strategies are organizationally embodied and employed by a huge number and variety of groups. They are a passing phenomenon however, for, as explained, they ring their own death-knell. The very fact that they seek to aggrandize themselves at others’ expense and do not help to improve the general welfare ensures that this be so. As the suffering they cause sparks the desire for evolutionary change and fuels its fire, accused and accursed in realms of Mind and Spirit, they will be reduced to ashes, in terms of what goes on, basically, just serving as fertilizer.

n the long run, unselfish participation is the most rewarding. Those who are contributive experience the greatest joy and achieve the biggest success. Both because they themselves feel deserving and because appreciative others wish them well, they are psychospiritually aided and abetted in ways some think quite miraculous. Infusions of energy give them the power they need to carry out their tasks. Infusions of knowledge make their way clear. Whatever pains they may take and sacrifices they may make are more than compensated for by blissful infusions of love. In ways I have described and others I have barely hinted at, because Life Itself is the foundation on which they build, their capacity for creative expression continues to increase and endure."

[naturesflow]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The above is an unsubstantiated/unsubstantiatable and quite 'jaundiced' (by pessimism!) projection IMO, though I wouldn't rule it out as a [u]possible[/] 'future' scenario myself.

Here are some excerpts from the book I wrote which argues that the history of (past) 'evolution' was and so the likely course of (future) 'evolution' on the planet (not that the process is ever a simple, 'straight line' affair mind you) will be:

"On a transpersonal scale, as everyone contributes to the co-motion, waves of thought, feeling and behavior ripple and ricochet around the globe, cumulatively adding to the vibration of the platform on which we stand, building in resonance as they sweep through the race. At present in particular, with populations soaring and availability diminishing, these are approaching a crescendo of intensity. Those who are conscientious are becoming more loving and co-ordinated in the process; those who are selfish, more paranoid and alienated. Those who are hopeful are buoyantly choosing paths of constructive action; those without hope are sinking deeper into depression and degeneracy. Tension is mounting as people take sides; polarities of attitude and expectancy are reaching extremes.

We are approaching a snapping point. Ultimately, triggered by ecological breakdown, consequences will be cataclysmic. Depending on whether aligned with positive or negative trends, some will move higher up on Life’s evolutionary ladder, others will fall—our dilemma will be resolved by a massive catharsis.

Take heed, for what you now choose affects, for better or worse, what happens in the future, not only to you but also to those who you are most cogently involved with. Since you are an integral part of Life’s process, you are bound to move and be moved, one way or another, by current developments and ongoing themes.

But also take heart, if you are one who subscribes to what is good. As times of want alternate with times of plenty, the crises engendered, though painful and upsetting to go through, are on the whole very creative. Attributed to ‘the hand of God’ by some and to ‘natural selection’ by others, a process of culling then takes place which, far from being random, is positively discriminating and therefore, in final terms, constructive.

Individuals and groups that are reciprocal and sharing emerge ascendant, resonantly reinforced by one another, despite general shortage, overcoming their difficulties. Those that are unresponsive and unrelated atrophy in isolation; unless they change for the better, they weaken and fail eventually. Those that are antagonistic and oppositional fare worst of all; their energy depleted by friction and their momentum destroyed by clashes and collisions, their creative thrust is halted and reduced to nullity.

With every denouement, asynchronous and discordant elements are deleted, while more cooperative and coordinated embodiments proceed forth, the degree of harmonious integration increasing as each new stage succeeds."

and (the concept of 'reincarnation' may also be pertinent here:)

"We are entering another crucial phase of Life’s earthly development. Ecosystemic stress now makes radical change absolutely necessary. Only those [carriers of memes which] improve our conjoint condition will live on as part of the future. The destiny of all who don’t acknowledge and respond to what Life calls for is oblivion.

The logic is quite simple: Those who close their minds to what is really going on are bound to stray from Life’s path. Those who harden their hearts become stones in effect and go no further. Only those who recognize and responsively engage with the creative impulse within others around them drink “of the fountain of the water of Life freely” and flourish as resonant parts of the Whole.

It is true that remnants of selfishness are still alive and kicking. Aside from myriad lesser expressions, dinosaurean characteristics and strategies are organizationally embodied and employed by a huge number and variety of groups. They are a passing phenomenon however, for, as explained, they ring their own death-knell. The very fact that they seek to aggrandize themselves at others’ expense and do not help to improve the general welfare ensures that this be so. As the suffering they cause sparks the desire for evolutionary change and fuels its fire, accused and accursed in realms of Mind and Spirit, they will be reduced to ashes, in terms of what goes on, basically, just serving as fertilizer.

n the long run, unselfish participation is the most rewarding. Those who are contributive experience the greatest joy and achieve the biggest success. Both because they themselves feel deserving and because appreciative others wish them well, they are psychospiritually aided and abetted in ways some think quite miraculous. Infusions of energy give them the power they need to carry out their tasks. Infusions of knowledge make their way clear. Whatever pains they may take and sacrifices they may make are more than compensated for by blissful infusions of love. In ways I have described and others I have barely hinted at, because Life Itself is the foundation on which they build, their capacity for creative expression continues to increase and endure."

If I could write something insightfully good like this, I would feel quite chuffed myself, It was like listening (and seeing) the music of the spheres... (I heard the angelic version for real after I conquered the mountain of fear in my dark night of the soul/ spiritual awakening many moons ago,but lets look at this one today as a "more real" approach)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-GC20KIRUY

[Being]

Originally Posted by davidsun

The above is an unsubstantiated/unsubstantiatable and quite 'jaundiced' (by pessimism!) projection IMO, though I wouldn't rule it out as a [u]possible[/] 'future' scenario myself.

No one knows the future. There are the visions of people like Jeshua, St John, Peter Deunov, Dolores Cannon, PMH A t w a t e r, Tobias Lars & many others.

It's possible that there are differential scenarios - a collapse & birth of a new World.

Certainly, & a lesson that i am learning myself, is acceptance of others / the way things are, regardless of the realities of it all.

i speak the way i do at times because i had a vision of it all. Rationally the current Global system is totally unsustainable - it either collapses & / or transitions into something else.

[Being]

Originally Posted by Raziel

I'm going to dig deep into the links you provided - thank you for those.

We're all different. We all hold different World views & opinions. i have to work on a deeper acceptance of how others are & how this society / 'civilisation' is, regardless of how strongly i disagree with some things. i would summarise the main areas of where i feel passionate about below. But of course it is jut what i am personally in line with - we 'all' disagree to various levels & have our own positions / opinions.

The End of this & other Polemical Arguments -

"No one seems able to settle the anti / critical / pro psychiatry argument. No one seems able to settle the argument between arguing various weightings & combinations of biological, psychological / emotional, sociological / environmental & spiritual / transpersonal areas, with all the different positions & agendas that involves, especially between atheist scientific materialism & all the alternatives.

No one seems able to settle the argument between seeing things as natural ranges of human experiences & genuine psychopathology / illness.

One solution that I see is to genuinely integrate all of it. Have a genuinely integral / holistic model, understanding & approach - that covers all areas of biology, psychology, sociology & spirituality. Mind, Body, Soul, Spirit & Environment, within a genuinely individualised & person centred approach. But again few agree with such a Model.

I don't see that anyone will win any side of all this polemical argument / debate."

An End to the primary paradigm of scientific materialism -

Consciousness is Primary -

www.my-big-toe.com/

The Quantum Activist

www.quantumactivist.com/

Toward the First Revolution in the Mind Sciences

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhntEOGslbs

The Santa Barbara Institute for Consciousness Studies

www.sbinstitute.com/

Noetic Sciences

noetic.org/about/what-are-noetic-sciences

Science & Non-Duality

www.scienceandnonduality.com/

The Primacy of Consciousness -

www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqSxHzqm1pw

Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science

opensciences.org/about/manifesto-for-a-post-materialist-science

The implementation of genuine & appropriate health systems -

"Although out reach and crisis services are needed, without a 24/7 front end system sanctuary like Soteria, CooperRiis, Diabasis House, the Open Dialogue or the sanctuary - folks don't have a chance to avoid having their potentially transformative psychosis being aborted with medications and a Schizophrenic diagnosis being laid on them for the rest of their lives. Loren Mosher on alternative approaches to psychosis, was agreed that all the sanctuaries like Laing's Kingsley Hall, John Weir Perry's Diabasis House, Soteria, Burch House, Windhorse, the Agnews Project. And the med free, no restraints, no diagnosis, open door Ward sanctuary; plus the Euorpean and Scandanavian Open Dialogue places- well they ALL basically do the same thing. They provide the necessary and sufficient conditions for a person to go through a psychotic process and come out the other side-'Weller than well'- as Karl Menninger famously said. By being held in the healing crucible of a caring, open hearted setting, the psyche naturally sets it's own course and heals from the early wounds that made a dramatic psychosis renewal necessary in the first place. If instead, a person is labelled as having a diseased brain and medicated into emotional numbness and submission, then the energy and power and symbolic expression of the purposive psychosis simply falls back into the unconscious. Then whenever a loss or trauma happens, the person de-compensates into an ever more amorphous emotional and fragmented daze of so-called chronic psychosis where renewal and healing is far more difficult."

- Michael Cornwall
_____________________________________________

The Life conclusion, in the words of who was arguable the greatest psychiatrist & psychologist this World has seen -

“I have now, after long practical experience, come to hold the view that the psychogenic causation of the disease is more probable than the toxic [physico-chemical] causation. There are a number of mild and ephemeral but manifestly schizophrenic illnesses - quite apart from the even more common latent psychoses - which begin purely psychogenically, run an equally psychological course (aside from certain presumably toxic nuances) and can be completely cured by a purely psychotherapeutic procedure. I have seen this even in severe cases”.

- Carl Jung

The implementation of far better systemic alternatives -

Open economy, a resource-based economy, zero marginal cost economy, or movements like the The Free World Charter, The Venus Project, The Zeitgeist Movement, Ubuntu Contributionism, New Earth Nation, The Thrive Movement, or the works of Jeremy Rifkin, Jacque Fresco, R. Buckminster Fuller, Peter Joseph, Michael Tellinger, Colin R. Turner. Countless other people & projects along very similar lines.

Debt the first 5 Thousand years -

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt:_The_First_5000_Years

Free World Charter -

www.freeworldcharter.org/en

The Zeitgeist Movement -

thezeitgeistmovementuk.com/about/

The Venus Project -

http://www.thevenusproject.com/the-v...and-proposals/

The Thrive Movement -

www.thrivemovement.com/

New Earth Nation -

newearthnation.org/

Richard Buckminster "Bucky" Fuller

http://www.bfi.org/dymaxion-forum/20...ponry-livingry

http://www.designsciencelab.com/reso...tysPath_BF.pdf

UN Article 25 -

http://www.sharing.org/information-c...ghts-and-basic

A return of the Universal Wisdom -

There is a Golden thread that runs through all the World's Wisdom. That all points to a Universal Truth & Reality.

The Unification of Religion & the Perennial Philosophy / Universal Wisdom -

www.iawwai.com/UnificationOfReligion.htm

www.theosociety.org/pasadena/ts/pere_wis.htm

Spiritual principles -

http://www.spiritualwisdom.org.uk/sp...principles.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-how...b_4220260.html

www.allisnow.com/blog/spiritual-principles/

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Being

The End of this & other Polemical Arguments - ... One solution that I see is to genuinely integrate all of it. Have a genuinely integral / holistic model, understanding & approach - that covers all areas of biology, psychology, sociology & spirituality. Mind, Body, Soul, Spirit & Environment, within a genuinely individualised & person centred approach. But again few agree with such a Model.

I don't see that anyone will win any side of all this polemical argument / debate.

Ptolemy/polemy!

You have certainly done your mental 'Homework' ('Universework'? ), says this U to An Other U.

All that's left (in my view) for U to end Ur own thought-feeling 'i'solation is to integrate (with) said 'vision' emotionally (which includes accepting and lovingly embracing that others are "having the time of their lives" as they are - methinks, it might help if you 'see' that IT is all really good, death-throws/throes included!

Here are some quotes (which have stimulus-helped me to do this, insofar as I have that is ) are:

From The Bhagavad Gita, Ch 13: "The body of man is the playground of the Self; and That which knows the activities of Matter, sages call the Self. I*am the Omniscient self that abides in the playground of Matter; knowledge of Matter and of the all-knowing Self is wisdom."

From The Bhagavad Gita, Ch 2: "That which is not, shall never be; that which is, shall never cease to be. To the wise, these truths are self-evident. The Spirit, which pervades all that we see, is imperishable. Nothing can destroy the Spirit. The material bodies which this Eternal, Indestructible, Immeasurable Spirit inhabits are all finite. ... He who thinks that the Spirit kills, and he who thinks of It as killed, are both ignorant. The Spirit kills not, nor is It killed. It was not born; It will never die, nor once having been, can It cease to be. Unborn, Eternal, Ever-enduring, yet Most Ancient, the Spirit dies not when the body is dead. He who knows the Spirit as Indestructible, Immortal, Unborn, ... how should he kill or cause to be killed? As a man discards his threadbare robes and puts on new, so the Spirit throws off Its worn-out bodies and takes fresh ones. Weapons cleave It not, fire burns It not, water drenches It not, and wind dries It not. It is impenetrable; It can be neither drowned nor scorched nor dried. It is Eternal, All-pervading, ... Even if thou thinkest of It as constantly being born, constantly dying, even then, O*Mighty Man, thou still hast no cause to grieve. For death is as sure for that which is born, as birth is for that which is dead. Therefore grieve not for what is inevitable. The end and the beginning of beings are unknown. We see only the intervening formations. Then what cause is there for grief? One hears of the Spirit with surprise, another thinks It mar*vellous, the third listens without comprehending. Thus, though many are told about It, scarcely is there one who knows It."

From Romans, Ch. 14: "Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's."

Please know that I personally very much admire the intensity and aim of your quest, and think that you have done and continue to do great service by way of sharing links/sources and added commentary which you regard as being potentially meaningful to other (fellow) Beings.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by naturesflow

If I could write something insightfully good like this, I would feel quite chuffed myself, .."

Your right-brained tonalities often result in my feeling quite chuffed, Flowing Lady!