Antisocial people hidding behind their mask of sanity

[Mused]

Originally Posted by Randahl

That's really contributing and interesting. Please tell us more about you online habits.

Yeah i know its totally fascinating, thank you for acknowledging it

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by jimrich

IMO, the first thing to understand is why we attract or are attracted to antisocial folks in the first place and that investigation might take you back to those who conditioned you to be that way - starting with your parents.
Unless you know what makes you "tick", you may go from that relationship to another one just like it or even WORSE!
Your best defense is thorough self understanding and HIGH self respect so you are no longer so vulnerable to antisocial folks or other USERS - including your self.
There is a powerful reason why we get involved with an antisocial type!

Can you explain what makes some people attract P ? I 've read about but i'm not sure i totally agree, i think it's not as simple. P can fool judges, policemen and even psychologists like Picasso who duped Jacques Lacan and made him believe what he wanted. There are many famous P who are praised and highly considered by society. At work there is someone i think has strong P traits and i've noticed he's able to influence others very well and is liked by many who don't have yet understood the game he his playing.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

And from the outside it can probably look like that is what I'm doing again now to "Hippiegirl" (lol, feels weird to call her that. I have many nicknames for her, but hippiegirl isn't one of them). And that was obviously a source of distrust and paranoia in the beginning. But we've managed to deal with it cause a) she approached me, b) I've been completely open about that I'm a P from the start (she had already read my numerous posts about it). c) I will continuously, I still am, giving her an environment where I allow her to as suspicious or paranoid as she has to without me becoming defensive or upset. That's all I can do, just be solid and stable over time. I let her have acces to everything and will answer anything truthfully. Trust isn't just something to be earned, but also maintained. Besides, I couldn't lie to her, she just knows what I feel/think anyway. It's actually a relief for me; there's never a thought of lying cause I know it wouldn't be possible and I want to be loved for what I am, not just a selected facade I choose to show. Lying to her would ruin everything for me even if it was never found out.

Our situation is probably extremely rare tho. I would not recommend going into a relationship with a P in hopes of changing them or being able to connect with them. That's going to be a disaster! Had she been anyone else I would've been treating her just like previous partners, idealizing->devalue-->discard. Well, I wouldn't even have bothered with her in the first place cause she's geographically too far away to be worth going after if it was just for carnal/narcissistic/monetary reasons.

Randhal, would it be accurate to call you an ex P, do you know Sam Vaknin and can relate to himin a way ? Were you interested in spirituality, past lives... before you met Hippiegirl ? I'm interested to know why you did "idealizing->devalue-->discard" to you former girlfriend, what was your motivation, and what was your internal world.

Originally Posted by Randahl

It's not impossible to have a relationship with a P even if you're not TFs, but extremely difficult. You would need a mindset that accepts and tolerate that whatever they do it is not personal, that they will never change, they will never connect with you (or your children) the way you do, now and then horrible things will happen. But if you can still love and give space to that person to just be, you could be an important and treasures individual receiving deep respect and care.

What do you mean by deep respect and care, it seems so far away from what i've read and heard from people.

[Hippiegirl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

So with that i would be very interested to hear about your story to the degree to what you're willing to share. It must be a beautiful thing for a person when they choose the light over the dark, and to meet their TF. It must be a beautiful think for someone to help another reaching the light. I think it's quite rare to be the witness of such a transformation.

I feel honored and blessed to be the witness of his transformation. I don’t think you can force someone to change. But what you can do is inspire another person. What I saw with Randahl is that he missed information. Information I could provide him with. I did that but what he wanted to do with it was fully up to him. He made a choice to move towards feeling more. He made a lot of progress and that makes me proud and I have a lot of respect for him. I think it is extremely courageous of him to move towards feeling more even though that meant a huge loss of control for him and going against everything that was natural and safe for him.

In the beginning it was a very lonely process for me. I needed to talk to someone and I shared some things with people close to me. I only told them about having this spiritual connection and left out the P aspect. But they knew anyway because of their psychic abilities lol. Because they saw the darkness but not the person inside, they were very worried for me. That is fully understandable but it made me feel alone. At that time I couldn’t share that much with Randahl either. I knew I had to be careful with him and didn’t want to overwhelm him with talk about twin flames and spiritual connections. I thought it was better for him to find out for himself and for him to use his own words instead of “forcing” all this spiritual terminology on him. I feel a responsibility to create a safe environment for him. Of course we had some conflicts too and I am far from perfect haha. But in general I think I succeeded in creating such an environment for him and he does feel safe with me.

I chose to use the term TF because it is extremely fitting for what we have. But even if I wouldn’t use any terminology for this, there is an extremely strong and unexplainable connection between us that goes beyond anything I’ve ever known before. I know that I knew him before I met him in this life. The best way I can put it is that being with him feels like a life’s mission. There is a lot of romantic attraction but it is so much more than that. He is very receptive but if that wouldn’t have been the case I’d be willing to hold his hand and sit with him in the darkness. I truly love him unconditionally.

I can really relate to the movie “What dreams may come”. It’s a very beautiful and spiritual movie and if you haven’t seen it yet I can assure you that you’d like it.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by jimrich

IMO, the first thing to understand is why we attract or are attracted to antisocial folks in the first place and that investigation might take you back to those who conditioned you to be that way - starting with your parents.
Unless you know what makes you "tick", you may go from that relationship to another one just like it or even WORSE!
Your best defense is thorough self understanding and HIGH self respect so you are no longer so vulnerable to antisocial folks or other USERS - including your self.
There is a powerful reason why we get involved with an antisocial type!

Although it's always helpful to know more about yourself, it's not really gonna help you avoid Ps. Maybe it will help you cope with stuff better after the damage is done tho, but none is immune to manipulation, no one. He'll either fail to catch your attention in the initial state and move on or wait for things to change without you even knowing you were targeted, or you'll be in the ride until it chrashing down. You never hear about people who got out of a deep relation with a P before things get bad. Seriously, there's not much you can do really, until things get abusive/toxic.

[Flameseeker]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

I know this isn't going to a very light post, but it's good to be informed to be able to detect toxic people who pretends to be your best friend or lover. Someone i know met someone of this kind and hopefully left soon enough.
One thing to know is there is nothing to do except to leave and go no contact with these antisocial people.

Why would you think antisocial people are toxic, maybe they are just introverts ?

My ex husband was a narcissistic compulsive liar & master manipulator & yet the most social person I've ever known, an energy vampire you see, he had to socialise with alot if people to suck their energy.

The person you are dealing with maybe toxic, however don't suggest there is anything wrong with anyone wanting to be antisocial 😀

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Hippiegirl

I feel honored and blessed to be the witness of his transformation. I don’t think you can force someone to change. But what you can do is inspire another person. What I saw with Randahl is that he missed information. Information I could provide him with. I did that but what he wanted to do with it was fully up to him. He made a choice to move towards feeling more. He made a lot of progress and that makes me proud and I have a lot of respect for him. I think it is extremely courageous of him to move towards feeling more even though that meant a huge loss of control for him and going against everything that was natural and safe for him.

I feel you're a very compassionate and bright soul I think you mean mostly of emotions when you say Randahl missed information ?
In my understanding the root of the dark path comes from having made the decision to forcefully control or supress once's emotions after experiencing some wound, and also wanting to control the external world to not be affected by it anymore. In doing that for a long time, once emotions are so well repressed that once is cutted of from the authentic part of himself and totally close his heart chakra, resulting in the fear of loving and being loved because it would destroy the false all powerful self image once has constructed. But i think the authentic part with all the positive emotions, integrity are still present in the unconscious and can be reacknowledged if one decides to. Do you agree ?

Originally Posted by Hippiegirl

In the beginning it was a very lonely process for me. I needed to talk to someone and I shared some things with people close to me. I only told them about having this spiritual connection and left out the P aspect. But they knew anyway because of their psychic abilities lol. Because they saw the darkness but not the person inside, they were very worried for me. That is fully understandable but it made me feel alone. At that time I couldn’t share that much with Randahl either. I knew I had to be careful with him and didn’t want to overwhelm him with talk about twin flames and spiritual connections. I thought it was better for him to find out for himself and for him to use his own words instead of “forcing” all this spiritual terminology on him. I feel a responsibility to create a safe environment for him. Of course we had some conflicts too and I am far from perfect haha. But in general I think I succeeded in creating such an environment for him and he does feel safe with me.

I don't know if you already had boyfriends before, but this relation shoud be very special and intense. I don't know even if it could be compared to a traditional TF relationship haha.

Originally Posted by Hippiegirl

I chose to use the term TF because it is extremely fitting for what we have. But even if I wouldn’t use any terminology for this, there is an extremely strong and unexplainable connection between us that goes beyond anything I’ve ever known before. I know that I knew him before I met him in this life. The best way I can put it is that being with him feels like a life’s mission.

This makes me wonder that probably before his physical incarnation, Randahl had already choosen that this life would be the life where he would change his polarity form dark to light.

Originally Posted by Hippiegirl

I can really relate to the movie “What dreams may come”. It’s a very beautiful and spiritual movie and if you haven’t seen it yet I can assure you that you’d like it.

Seems good ;)

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

Why would you think antisocial people are toxic, maybe they are just introverts ?

My ex husband was a narcissistic compulsive liar & master manipulator & yet the most social person I've ever known, an energy vampire you see, he had to socialise with alot if people to suck their energy.

The person you are dealing with maybe toxic, however don't suggest there is anything wrong with anyone wanting to be antisocial ��

It seems we agree on the meaning but not on the choosing of words.
I was using antisocial as it is used in psychology (Anti Social Personality Disorder) for people who have no empathy and no moral conscience.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by Flameseeker

Why would you think antisocial people are toxic, maybe they are just introverts ?

My ex husband was a narcissistic compulsive liar & master manipulator & yet the most social person I've ever known, an energy vampire you see, he had to socialise with alot if people to suck their energy.

The person you are dealing with maybe toxic, however don't suggest there is anything wrong with anyone wanting to be antisocial 😀

"antisocial". look it up in a dictionary. I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

Randhal, would it be accurate to call you an ex P, do you know Sam Vaknin and can relate to himin a way ? Were you interested in spirituality, past lives... before you met Hippiegirl ? I'm interested to know why you did "idealizing->devalue-->discard" to you former girlfriend, what was your motivation, and what was your internal world.



What do you mean by deep respect and care, it seems so far away from what i've read and heard from people.

No, I'm not an ex-P. For the same reason you don't see ex-homosexuals or ex-left handed people. I'm going through great change, but I'm not becoming a different person. It's not a choice. I feel overwhelmingly strong feelings for hippiegirl, but with regards to others not much is different. Sam Vaknin? No, I don't compare to him. He's a narcissist with moderate psychopathic traits. He has a lot of wisdoms tho.

I've had nothing but despise for spirituality until I met hippiegirl. That standpoint is making me look silly now lol.

Often the idealizing...discard thing is just that. You idealize someone, then you get to know them and they don't measure up to your ideal, and you discard them. No secret agenda that was in plan from the start. The stories on P-free are all about the victims, and therefore miss the point of the actions by the P: the plan, if there ever was one, was never about the victim, it was about the P. You go to your favorite restaurant and tip the waiter well cause he's giving you a good service, but you're not there because of him, and you will not give him a second thought when you go to another restaurant. That's the mindset.

About respect and care, I was referring to a hypothetical situation which is extremely rare. The stores on P-free are from people who had bad experiences. But it's not that uncommon that Ps can also have people that are important to them. Importance, respect and care does not imply that there are warmer connections there tho. Think of it as a treasured belonging, like a nice car. You take good care of it, it's important to you, maybe even gives you pride. A good girlfriend is like driving around in a Ferrari, but hippiegirl is teaching me how to frikkin fly! I can't compare it with anything, a Ferrari isn't relevant.