between the animal and the divine

Like most people I eat meat, I confess I like it,but I dont like myself for liking it.What are we to do? I use to go fishing but now I could not bring myself to bash the brains out of some poor squirming fish I caught, and yet I eat fish fingers. I will cheerfully eat roast chicken, but the way they are treated disgusts me. I know I should have the courage of My convictions. But it seems to me,as humans we are torn between the base animal body, and the divine soul, God certainly set a test for us here.

This a really intricate exploration of mind. I've been a meat eater and also a vegetarian. Used to fish and loved it ever since a kid, and I got really good at it but also felt bad about killing the fishes. Went to catch and release and not using a net or barbed hooks and catch and release, but then thought "Well, if I were a fish, I wouldn't enjoy being harrased like this!"

People who knew me well were stunned and disappointed by that decision as they really liked going fishing with me. It for some was really more a disappointment in not getting to philosophise and discuss with me, but they didn't really know that. That is an interesting thing to me to explore as well. Some people seem to be able to take extra twists of mind, and see more deeply within their own true inner motivavions and desires. I think such people are more open to changing their ways of thinking as well. I also think they are somewhat especially rare.

This forum seems to have a lot of these rare people.

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by jondav

Like most people I eat meat, I confess I like it,but I dont like myself for liking it.What are we to do? I use to go fishing but now I could not bring myself to bash the brains out of some poor squirming fish I caught, and yet I eat fish fingers. I will cheerfully eat roast chicken, but the way they are treated disgusts me. I know I should have the courage of My convictions. But it seems to me,as humans we are torn between the base animal body, and the divine soul, God certainly set a test for us here.

I know. The other day I was trying to attune to things I hold dear. I wasn't doing very well, because all I could think of was dinner. Every time I tried to tune in, "dinner" came up in my thoughts, and all sorts of visualizations about what I was going to eat! OK so it was vegan falafel, with brown rice, sauce, side-salad....but it amounts to the same thing!
I asked myself (amused) "what means more to you right now -the vibration of Spirit, or falafel, brown rice and salad...?"
Er....ummmm.... (couldn't even make my mind up!)

"You're not even starving, you know. You're not even desperately hungry. You are just 'ready for dinner'...."

And I came to the same conclusion. We are torn between the animal body and the divine Soul.
I laughed at my inner "animal" and told her that we shall eat soon....now just do what you set your heart on first, then you can go back and have dinner".
Simple.
And after it was done, with much laughter and joy, we had a good dinner.

But as for meat....yes it's tasty. But so are vegan dishes -extremely tasty! You could give going "veggy" a try?? (don't forget fried onions, garlic and spices.)

[knightofalbion]

There is vegetarianism or veganism....

Everyone here is purporting to be walking the spiritual path. One must ask oneself if one is serious or just on an ego trip...
If one is serious, then it's time to step off the cruelty carousel. There really is no other honest or righteous option.

Originally Posted by jondav

Like most people I eat meat, I confess I like it,but I dont like myself for liking it.What are we to do? I use to go fishing but now I could not bring myself to bash the brains out of some poor squirming fish I caught, and yet I eat fish fingers. I will cheerfully eat roast chicken, but the way they are treated disgusts me. I know I should have the courage of My convictions. But it seems to me,as humans we are torn between the base animal body, and the divine soul, God certainly set a test for us here.

It really depends on your mindset. For instance, if you had free range organic chicken, that was fed veggie scraps and has a massive area to run around, would you feel as bad? In the wild the chickens wouldnt last much longer then a year where as in free range farms some chickens are at least 3 or 4.

No where in the bible does it specifically state eating meat is bad. There are passages that give heed to both, and one passage says loosely "i dont judge on what you eat, there is room in heaven for both". There are many more ways that we as humans and life on this planet suffers though natural means. A forest after a fire is brutal and most are caused by lightning.

hunter gatherer peoples respect the hunt and repsect the fact that animals died for them so they can eat. Why else do you think most if not all pre christian belifs focused so heavily on animal and nature?

[knightofalbion]

Why bring the Bible into it? The Bible was written, compiled and corrupted by man, not God and it was made to say what Constantine and the Catholic authorities wanted it to say, to further their cause.
And the quote that was misquoted, may (or may not, because 'even the genuine Epistles were greatly interpolated') have been said by someone who infamously led a meat-eating schism against the true Christianity as originally taught by Jesus.
So hardly a sound basis for use as a moral compass.

Of the disincarnate spirit teachers, of which Native Americans make up a disproportionate number, to a man they advocate non-killing/vegetarianism.

Only through LOVE can the soul ascend the spheres of light, which is the goal and purpose of all earthly incarnation. That is love expressed in the physical sense as SERVICE and in the emotional sense as COMPASSION.

You cannot square participation in the ways of cruelty, bloodshed and killing with the spiritual quest.

The spiritual path is like climbing a mountain track. It's hard and unforgiving, it requires discipline and sacrifice.
It isn't easy, but nothing worth doing ever is...

Because the OP mentioned god..... ya know, the diety in the bible?

[Tobi]

Originally Posted by Time

It really depends on your mindset. For instance, if you had free range organic chicken, that was fed veggie scraps and has a massive area to run around, would you feel as bad? In the wild the chickens wouldnt last much longer then a year where as in free range farms some chickens are at least 3 or 4.

No where in the bible does it specifically state eating meat is bad. There are passages that give heed to both, and one passage says loosely "i dont judge on what you eat, there is room in heaven for both". There are many more ways that we as humans and life on this planet suffers though natural means. A forest after a fire is brutal and most are caused by lightning.

hunter gatherer peoples respect the hunt and repsect the fact that animals died for them so they can eat. Why else do you think most if not all pre christian belifs focused so heavily on animal and nature?

Unfortunately I watched a short film the other day, filmed on a Free Range
Chicken farm. Those happy chickens running around free, and not doing so badly....were then plucked out of their lives, turned upside down into steel receptacles, and their throats cut, one by one. Cut twice in a "v" shape. As the slaughterer moved along the row, the abject terror in those chickens was plain and obvious. Some desperate to get themselves out of the steel funnel, but of course, man's will was the stronger, and he reached up and pulled those ones down by the neck. They were screaming.
Healthy meat?
A person would have to have a heart which was numbed not to have seen that was causing suffering and fear to a living creature with emotions, and thoughts. However much we might like to imagine OUR emotions and thoughts are so much more refined than those of the animals.

Originally Posted by Tobi

Unfortunately I watched a short film the other day, filmed on a Free Range
Chicken farm. Those happy chickens running around free, and not doing so badly....were then plucked out of their lives, turned upside down into steel receptacles, and their throats cut, one by one. Cut twice in a "v" shape. As the slaughterer moved along the row, the abject terror in those chickens was plain and obvious. Some desperate to get themselves out of the steel funnel, but of course, man's will was the stronger, and he reached up and pulled those ones down by the neck. They were screaming.
Healthy meat?
A person would have to have a heart which was numbed not to have seen that was causing suffering and fear to a living creature with emotions, and thoughts. However much we might like to imagine OUR emotions and thoughts are so much more refined than those of the animals.

Herein lies the problem (just to clarify, I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way).

You cant get away from suffering when it comes to modern day food. Even the slight difference between farming animals and food is not much of a difference when you take into account the deforestation and species extinction caused when farming say, soy, tea, coffee, bananas, palm oil, rice, wheat and grains. Borneo, which has one of the oldest and richest rainforests on the planet has lost 50% of that rainforest due to planting palms for palm oil. Much of the african and south american continents were deforested due to banana, coffee and cocoa plantations in the early 20th century.

its more then true that we have a problem of putting a human face on things. I think this is why many vegetarians state that "its ok to eat plants, they dont feel". They dont show what people show as emotions, because emotions are a trait of animals, not plants. Plants still sexually reproduce, move, react to their environment and even COMMUNICATE with eachother.

This is how I see it. I grow plants. Lots of plants. Ive cared for houseplants as long as I can remember and have a mini sustainable orchard in the city. I understand the ecological processes that involve them as much as i can without going to university. Does this mean that I should obstain from eating plants because I care for them?