The Oneness enigma

Originally Posted by guthrio

Hello Legrand,

...strange that it would have been considered a loss for a monk to have glimpsed, in the eternal moment that "here and now" truly is, that there would no longer be further need for combat with an "opponent", then clearly perceived to be...

....his very Self!

Ever here; even now.

Hello guthrio,

If it was a real combat, the one not being in the here and now for a glimpse would be dead for he or she would not of been able to block the fatal hit.

In a "combat", in a training to test ones level of concentration in this material world, we would slimply enjoy the Bliss that comes after.

Being in Bliss a bonze will not engage in an actual combat, as he or she does not see a need for it to resolve any situation.

Enjoy!

[guthrio]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Hello guthrio,

If it was a real combat, the one not being in the here and now for a glimpse would be dead for he or she would not of been able to block the fatal hit.

In a "combat", in a training to test ones level of concentration in this material world, we would slimply enjoy the Bliss that comes after.

Being in Bliss a bonze will not engage in an actual combat, as he or she does not see a need for it to resolve any situation.

Enjoy!

Hello Legrand,

Thanks for the clarification, especially the last line.

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Legrand

Being in Bliss a bonze will not engage in an actual combat, as he or she does not see a need for it to resolve any situation.

Brought this to mind:



Except some people do!

Originally Posted by Legrand

Each sensation, would it be from the five senses of this body or using other senses to feel other worlds or planes of existence or of perception, just appear, forming a vortex of sensation and creating a point of perception, to then disappear after that when the sensation or perception vanishes… Like clouds in a blue sky.

I am not able to attach those different vortexes of sensations to a same center of perception. Time and space as “defined” by our limited body senses becomes a strange thing also, a strange invention from the mind. Memory also is very strange in the way that it can attach all those different types of perception.

When the sky is blue with no clouds or no sensations to define a point of perception, there is simply Nothing to which I can identify myself to. I don’t know if we can call this Nothing or One or else, and in which way its interconnected with everything. I, It, me is simply not there if there is no sensation to associate with it.

I’m not able to say if all those perceptions appearing are interconnected. To whom? to what? I don’t know.

On the other side, I’m not the All. I did not find a vortex of perception, would it be for just a fraction of a second, big enough and aware of each and every detail possible to be able to say that I have experienced the All.

I can say I’m almost surprised, to come back to this body as a center point of perception most of the time and just find this pulsating/breathing process fascinating.

A sensation is really the most fascinating thing creating with it a “me” each time.

You explain and share the closest to what I once lived as. Except even feelings would be lighter than a small wisp of smoke.

The craving

Do you have any words of advice?

Originally Posted by janielee

You explain and share the closest to what I once lived as. Except even feelings would be lighter than a small wisp of smoke.

The craving

Do you have any words of advice?

Hello janielee,

Advice to who?

If I where to give you any kind of advice, I would limit you to what my imagination can create as a representation of who you are.

Enjoy!

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

A quote from ‘Proof of Heaven’ by Dr. Eben Alexander based upon his NDE

“Even as my consciousness became identical with all and eternity, I sensed that I could not become entirely one with the creative, originating driver of all that is. At the heart of the most infinite oneness, there was still that duality.”

I concur. Not that it is praise from Caesar but nevertheless based upon direct experience.

***

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

***

A quote from ‘Proof of Heaven’ by Dr. Eben Alexander based upon his NDE

“Even as my consciousness became identical with all and eternity, I sensed that I could not become entirely one with the creative, originating driver of all that is. At the heart of the most infinite oneness, there was still that duality.”

I concur. Not that it is praise from Caesar but nevertheless based upon direct experience.

***

Logical analysis (in this 'case', of what Jesus really meant) leads to the same Creature<=>Creator conclusion:

Many would rather simply believe that by saying “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30) Jesus unequivocally asserted that the gestalts of his and his/our Father’s spirits were absolutely identical, that they were literally one and the same aspect of Life in action; case closed. Such statement may certainly be read that way and, taken by itself, used to support God-concept co-opting narratives such as the one presented in the Nicene Creed which proclaims that the personage of Jesus was “begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made;” etc. But it may also be taken to mean that Jesus thought and felt that his and said Father-God’s spirits were dynamically integrated and functionally co-operational, and so united as ‘one’, metaphorically speaking, in terms of purpose and consequence – analogous to the way in which partners who aren’t identical may accomplish something they both desire when and as they work together in a complementary manner, which they couldn’t and so wouldn’t be able to creatively accomplish if each worked 'alone'. (This is what holism really means, by the way: “Holism is based upon idea that: the whole is more than the sum of its constitutive parts, so reduction of the whole to its constitutive elements eliminates some factors which are present only when a being is seen as a whole. For example, synergy is generated through the interaction of parts but it does not exist if we take parts alone.”)

For those who have reached the point where they are capable of dispassionately pondering such matters, I submit that “The Father is in me, and I in him” (John 10:38) which Jesus added in the same speech-sequence (as “I and my Father are one”) clearly shows the latter understanding to be what he actually meant to communicate. Notwithstanding the meta-truth that every ‘feature’ of Creativity (Life, God, Reality, Being – however you wish to view and reference It) is an inseparably integral aspect of one all-inclusive phenomenon, in light of which any and all conceptual ‘divisions’ which distinguish aspects of It one from another may be seen to really just be navigational aides at best, this saying indicates that Jesus ‘saw’ that there was a dynamic, two-way flow-connection between the primally progenitive soul of ‘the Father’ and the consequentially co‑generative soul-constellation of ‘the Son’, such that the outflow from one functions as inflow in relation to the other in continuously ongoing outflow→inflow→ad infinitum fashion. Readers capable of engaging in abstract thought experiments may appreciate the kind of experience an observer walking lengthwise along the seemingly two‑sided ‘surface’ of a mobius strip would have and, if reasonably intelligent, sooner or later grok as analogically explaining the never‑ending ‘story’ of ever-ongoing Father↔Son Creation.

[Unseeking Seeker]

***

There are many non-dual teachers offering a variety of examples. Ramana, Robert Adams, Swami Sarvapriya Nanda, Rupert Spira ... each better than the other! The idea is not to accept what they say on an intellectual level based upon their own direct realisation/s but rather to get to a point where we actually know the knowing by transforming or reawakening consciousness and so becoming. Beyond mind ... as Spira says awareness self-aware of awareness with there being nothing other than awareness (please don’t interpret it ... know this).

Living in self denial about the actuality of being as interconnectedness (for many it may not be even this ... just me-ness of mind-body) upon having actually experienced Oneness in the vibrant void of emptiness/fullness ... how may we affirm true Oneness if we do not feel as such in actuality of being (at this time)? Unless the idea is to merely theorise ...

Well, I’ll leave it at that without needlessly going into what Jesus meant when he said that he and his father are one (as one?) ... why stir the hornets nest?

Wheels within wheels am lost in a maze
Myriad of thoughts & images block my gaze
The concept seems clear, yet the truth elusive
I seek direct wisdom, not symbols allusive

***

[davidsun]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Well, I’ll leave it at that without needlessly going into what Jesus meant when he said that he and his father are one (as one?) ... why stir the hornets nest?

No hornets here, Bro. Just a different set of concepts/words pertaining to the same subject. 'Seeing' it from different angles can (if one is willing to do so) help one know the THANG better, or at least know more about IT.

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Wheels within wheels am lost in a maze
Myriad of thoughts & images block my gaze
The concept seems clear, yet the truth elusive
I seek direct wisdom, not symbols allusive

I would suggest that 'the maze' is a function all of your thinking and feeling 'convolutions'. Ask yourself why the 'solution' to this 'problem' is so 'elusive' for you. Look 'in', not 'out' or 'at', and wait (with faith!) for the 'answers' to 'come' to you. They will if you are receptive (you may have 'let go' of your own fear-based(?) 'resistance' in this regard).

Note: An 'unconflicted' farmer has no problem growing crops and feeding his/her critters. An 'unconflicted' engineer has no problem designing a bridge to cross a river. Nothing 'eludes' them such regards.)

[Jyotir]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Wheels within wheels am lost in a maze
Myriad of thoughts & images block my gaze
The concept seems clear, yet the truth elusive
I seek direct wisdom, not symbols allusive

There is nothing inherently fear-based in that, but indicating the intrinsic limitations of mind, which is by nature conflicted.

That is not a problem for the complacent sleeper, but it is recognized upon awakening.

Indeed, that awakening comes about among other things by the very acknowledgement of that disparity and conflict, which seeks resolution in the higher view (e.g., “truth elusive”) - not in the errant justification of the mundane as sufficient in-and-of-itself.

~ J