Questioning the Benefits of Meditation

[Catsquotl]

Originally Posted by iamthat

Catsquotl mentions vipassana retreats. These are usually ten days long and I know people who have found them quite transformational. Simply being in that kind of environment, away from our usual routine, focused on certain practices, means that we can go much deeper.

There's several flavors of Vipassana. The one that got the most attention is promoted by S. N. Goenka. I must say that i don't know this one. I believe it's 10 days of sitting meditation. I did a 15 day variant that originated Through Mahasi Sayadaw and popularized in thailand by the late Ajaan Tong Sirimangalo. There we alternate between walking and sitting meditation.

I chose this one as the meditation centers / temples operate on a Dana only basis Which helped in making it affordable for me..

I did my first retreat here: vipassana-dhammacari.com/

[Willyeast]

Thank-you. It does make sense we need to sit longer. Do you find longer sessions need to be done everyday to have long term benefit or is less often also useful?

[Catsquotl]

I think you may benefit from this free online book.

https://www.mctb.org/

it's called mastering the core teachings of the Buddha and is a rather sobering and hardcore look at meditation. What it does and how it does it.

That said. I think your question was addressed to iamthat.
In my experience though longer sits will make the benefits of meditation seep into daily life more and longer.
However it will only remain there if one investigates what caused these benefits.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Catsquotl

There's several flavors of Vipassana. The one that got the most attention is promoted by S. N. Goenka. I must say that i don't know this one. I believe it's 10 days of sitting meditation.

The people I know who have done vipassana retreats have done the Goenka version. From memory it is not just 10 days of sitting in meditation. The day is broken up into different practices, some done alone in your room, others done as a group meditation, with breaks for meals and video presentations of S.N. Goenka in the evening. There are opportunities to ask questions but otherwise it is all done in silence.

A major part seems to be just being aware of whatever arises in the body. Reading various accounts it seems as if people go through all sorts of things, including a lot of frustration and boredom. But often there comes a moment of surrender leading to a breakthrough, and it is this which keeps people coming back for more.

But they do insist that any other meditation practices people might do should not be done during a vipassana retreat. No yoga, no mantras, nothing except the meditation they prescribe. Which is why I have never felt drawn to such a retreat.

Peace

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

It does make sense we need to sit longer. Do you find longer sessions need to be done everyday to have long term benefit or is less often also useful?

Any longer session of meditation has to be beneficial, whether it happens every day or just once a week or once a month. Again I can only speak from my own experience. I learned to meditate in a group which emphasised long hours of meditation. Two hours every morning, two hours every evening, a six hour meditate every weekend, plus the occasional longer meditate of up to four days or more. No wonder my mind complained at first!!

But then it became normal and then I began to enjoy it. But nowadays many years later I find a certain laziness in myself and I only sit for an hour, although (because of my strong foundation in meditation) I know I can sit for much longer when I choose.

So I don't know how meditation is for those who might have had a less intense introduction to meditation. I said previously that however long you meditate you can always double it. Which is true but it may mean getting up that much earlier in the morning.

Everyone's situation is different. You might have family responsibilities or work commitments which place practical limitations on how much meditation you can do. But I do know that my deepest meditations have always been the longer ones. I suggest that you find whatever works for you and your life situation. The spiritual journey is a very practical journey.

Peace

[sky]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

All,
I have been a meditator for twenty years and have gained some benefit from the practice but after this time still get stressed or upset at life's daily challenges.

Do you take 'Meditation' out into the real world with you ?

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

I have been a meditator for twenty years and have gained some benefit from the practice but after this time still get stressed or upset at life's daily challenges.

Going back to the original post I am curious as to whether the main motivation for meditating is to become free from being "stressed or upset at life's daily challenges," or whether there is a deeper yearning for spiritual realisation.

If we just want a stress-free life then the benefits of meditation include:

• A greater understanding of ourselves and our particular patterns and tendencies.
• Increased detachment from our circumstances and the ability to flow with whatever arises.
• We take ourselves less seriously and so life's challenges become more manageable.
• Discovering a space of peace and stillness in the heart area which is always present.

And the more we put into meditation, the more we get from meditation.

But not everyone wants (or is able) to take meditation to its full potential. Regarding my own meditation I think that I have barely scratched the surface of what is possible.

Peace

[thegreatupdraft]

Here's how I see the benefits. FWIW I have less experience than you!

I'm quite aware of what benefits it brings me, especially when I bring it into my daily life.

At the same time, I don't put all the weight of my happiness on meditation. There are many other factors, and I expect that I'll occasionally fall unconscious and act like a little child.

Besides, I know a few people who're huge proponents of meditation, yet they still exhibit some regrettable tendencies. It's easier to overidealise this practice and wax lyrical about it than rather than really engage with it moment to moment.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by thegreatupdraft

Besides, I know a few people who're huge proponents of meditation, yet they still exhibit some regrettable tendencies. It's easier to overidealise this practice and wax lyrical about it than rather than really engage with it moment to moment.

This is very true. Such regrettable tendencies may be simply due to a lack of awareness in certain areas. We probably all have blind spots in regards to our own limitations.

But there is also the idea of unresolved samskaras and vasanas rising to the surface for the spiritual practitioner. They are both similar. Samskaras refer to subtle psychological imprints in the subconscious due to past experiences. Vasanas usually refer to subtle desires and tendencies.

During our practice these may rise to a conscious level and be reflected in our actions, forcing us to face the more hidden aspects of ourselves. Eventually we rise above them and they fade away.

So those who may be huge proponents of meditation while still engaging in regrettable tendencies are not necessarily being hypocrites or failing to embrace their teachings. They may just be struggling with clearing out unresolved tendencies, which is something we all end up doing.

Peace

[OldChap]

Originally Posted by Willyeast

All,

I have been a meditator for twenty years and have gained some benefit from the practice but after this time still get stressed or upset at life's daily challenges. Do the benefits of meditation continue to grow or does meditation simply have limits?

Don’t worry about still getting stressed or upset with things in daily life even after many years of meditation. It’s natural because we came in to be in the human form with a built in ego mind having fear as the main attribute.

The ego mind, that some call the survival mind or the mind of lack, serves the purpose of keeping us out of danger to stay alive while in an unfamiliar form in an unfamiliar low vibration part of reality. Without the survival mind we would be walking off cliffs, banging our heads on sharp objects, or not running away from a huge hungry bear.

As we return here many more times, become more familiar with this place, and gain more wisdom and benevolent maturity, we could then gradually push the ego mind to the background and begin to bring forth our divine mind that is our true nature. That being love, compassion, benevolence, and joy which are the natural energy flow in this universe and beyond that some call God, Creative Source, or Prime Creator.

Whether we know it or not, we are all on a spiritual path to return to love, compassion, benevolence, and joy. Free will allows each of us to move along that path at our own personal pace, or remain at the same point indefinitely, or even go backwards.

Meditation helps to calm down the tumultuous and unrested mind that is over heated from having to cope with all the fears, worries, and adversities we encounter everyday. Meditation is a mini quiet mind vacation from having to deal with people who are out to harm us or don’t have the same perspective or behaviour as ourselves.

Not so easy having to deal with people in general. Perhaps that is the reason why some temples and monasteries were built high up on a mountain and steep cliffs to limit human access.

In peace and quietness with our eyes closed we are more able to connect with that universal flow of energies that is within us, around us, and beyond. One could say we temporarily become more connected with that vast infinite meld of benevolent energies which holds all the knowledge and truths of everything.

More connected with God, more connected with the Creative Source, and more connected the the much bigger part of ourselves on the other side of the self imposed Veil of Forgetfulness. A brief moment of experiencing pure love (high vibration) that is rare in this part of reality we call Earth (low vibration).

The more we passionately move along the spiritual path, the more we will be guided to greater knowledge that will allows us better understanding of why things are unfolding the way they are, and more importantly who or what we truly are and why we are here.

Then what we earlier saw as our suffering and adversities will now be seen as welcome and grateful lesson opportunities to become wiser and more benevolently mature, onwards to returning to our true divine nature.

With greater knowledge and wisdom come greater peace and calm in heart and mind.

Then we will complain less, blame less, and not get our buttons pressed so easily.

How nice is that! We might not need to meditate much anymore as we begin to become more connected 24/7 with that benevolent universal flow of highly intelligent multi-dimensional quantum energies.

But until the collective humanity also become more connected, the ego will still exist and be needed to keep us out of danger because evil people still exist who are out to harm us.

Difference is, the more connected we become the faster we will transition out of the ego mind and into the divine mind’s way of benevolent and compassionate thinking.

That is practical spirituality. A balance of having to live in this evil prevalent world filled with fear and adversities while evolving spiritually to love, compassion, benevolence, and joy.

Relax and enjoy all the experiences, because one day you will look back and everything just seems like a dream.

What a dream and what an amazing human adventure we bravely and passionately signed up for when in our true home on the other side of the self imposed Veil of Forgetfulness.

All the best!