Integrate or Renounce .

[God-Like]

Some say that one is not the body and renounce the ailments of the body .

For some they refer to the body as a temple of sorts .

I understand that the body manifest can be seen in both ways and depending of context both ways of perceiving the manifest body is correct .

While I AM of the manifest body and the body contains life, I AM not renouncing it, as a matter of fact I AM self healing daily .

It's an interesting journey however which way one perceives it ..

Can you love yourself and not the body .. can you love yourself and renounce a part of yourself?


x daz x

[Kerubiel]

Interesting.. I ha ve renounced illness for over 15 years now. I never get sick anymore. One day I became powerful enough to simply say I will not get sick anymore. I counter every illness and buffer my body with positive forms of knowledge. The body can be enhanced with your knowledge and choice.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Kerubiel

Interesting.. I ha ve renounced illness for over 15 years now. I never get sick anymore. One day I became powerful enough to simply say I will not get sick anymore. I counter every illness and buffer my body with positive forms of knowledge. The body can be enhanced with your knowledge and choice.

So do you perceive the body and the ailments as a part of you?

Peeps can renounce many self aspects, but one can associate what that is with themselves on one hand and not on the other .

For example one can renounce their desires of the material but still maintain the connection that this is a part of them that they don't like .

For some they would renounce their personality traits because such traits are belonging to an illusory self.


x daz x

Originally Posted by God-Like

So do you perceive the body and the ailments as a part of you?

Some things you can change, other things you're stuck with. I don't get colds and flu through the winter because I just don't give in to them. While others are shoveling pills and potions they're destroying their immune system, I'd rather strengthen mine by letting a cold run its course. Other things though, not so much because there are parts of my body that do hurt - I'm old and knackered after all. However, some of the most painful ones are reminders of my Journey - souvenirs if you will.

I've been there and done that - physically, emotionally and Spiritually - and y'know? It's all me, all of it - warts and all.

I could renounce my desires but they're driving forces for experience, and just because I have a nice car in the drive it doesn't make me an egomaniac, it simply makes the Journey far more pleasant than driving a clapped out banger. And after a long time of not having, having is quite an experience.

This illusory self isn't so bad and my personality is infectious. I'm conscious that there are those whose Spirits are raised because of a simple smile that comes from an agreeable personality, or have a worry fade away. In that, Are We One? If I had renounced those personality traits and had no personality?

Does Spirituality belong to an illusory self? Is the non-illusory self the one that sees purpose and reason in having/being an illusory self? Are we simply wearing a mask as actors on Shakespeare's stage?

The question is, what is the question?

I'm going to put my Spirituality to one side because the reality is that my garden is a mess, it's annoying me and Mrs Greenslade's ticked at what she sees when she's putting the washing out. The birds don't mind though, and in all of that is a Spirituality.

Originally Posted by God-Like

Can you love yourself and not the body .. can you love yourself and renounce a part of yourself?

Can you not Love yourself Unconditionally? Is that the 'ultimate goal'?

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

Some things you can change, other things you're stuck with. I don't get colds and flu through the winter because I just don't give in to them. While others are shoveling pills and potions they're destroying their immune system, I'd rather strengthen mine by letting a cold run its course. Other things though, not so much because there are parts of my body that do hurt - I'm old and knackered after all. However, some of the most painful ones are reminders of my Journey - souvenirs if you will.

I've been there and done that - physically, emotionally and Spiritually - and y'know? It's all me, all of it - warts and all.

I could renounce my desires but they're driving forces for experience, and just because I have a nice car in the drive it doesn't make me an egomaniac, it simply makes the Journey far more pleasant than driving a clapped out banger. And after a long time of not having, having is quite an experience.

This illusory self isn't so bad and my personality is infectious. I'm conscious that there are those whose Spirits are raised because of a simple smile that comes from an agreeable personality, or have a worry fade away. In that, Are We One? If I had renounced those personality traits and had no personality?

Does Spirituality belong to an illusory self? Is the non-illusory self the one that sees purpose and reason in having/being an illusory self? Are we simply wearing a mask as actors on Shakespeare's stage?

The question is, what is the question?

I'm going to put my Spirituality to one side because the reality is that my garden is a mess, it's annoying me and Mrs Greenslade's ticked at what she sees when she's putting the washing out. The birds don't mind though, and in all of that is a Spirituality.

Can you not Love yourself Unconditionally? Is that the 'ultimate goal'?

Nice post G.S. and I agree with your mentality for use of a better word .

Why do you think that some recognised guru types distance themselves or what they are from the mind-body environment / experience .

I kinda chuckle a bit with the extremeness of it all ... It's like anger arises but it doesn't belong to me .. lol ..

I understand where they are coming from but I also understand that it doesn't apply to the current situation .

In my eyes for such individuals that are advocates of oneness and Self and all that jazz pretty much renounce everything that is not permanent in reflection of what they are in experience of form / physicality ..


x dazzle x

Originally Posted by God-Like

Nice post G.S. and I agree with your mentality for use of a better word .

Why do you think that some recognised guru types distance themselves or what they are from the mind-body environment / experience .

I kinda chuckle a bit with the extremeness of it all ... It's like anger arises but it doesn't belong to me .. lol ..

I understand where they are coming from but I also understand that it doesn't apply to the current situation .

In my eyes for such individuals that are advocates of oneness and Self and all that jazz pretty much renounce everything that is not permanent in reflection of what they are in experience of form / physicality ..


x dazzle x

Thank you.

How much of Spirituality is a form of escape from the mind/body experience? Not having done any kind of survey but I'd guess quite a few people come to Spirituality or religion because of some kind of trauma or lack, often as I look through the posts I can't help the feeling that they're missing or looking for something - or simply want avoidance. They say religion is for those that are afraid of going to hell and Spirituality is for those that have been there and I'd count myself as one of the latter. It's an experience 'being in the world but not of it', detaching from everything or feeling.

While I can come up with Spiritual answers to those kinds of experiences there are also psychological ones too that I've experienced in certain situations. Sometimes the mind can play tricks in dangerous situations as a survival technique, other times it feels as though the mind/body is simply a vehicle for experience and it feels as though we are our Higher Self wearing a suit because we have to navigate a hostile environment. Sometimes Life itself gives us PTSD.

Emotions are very difficult for some people and they can feel as though they have no control, which is where the renounce or integrate question can come into play. I used to be a very angry young man and it felt as though I was totally consumed by anger - I was anger, so much so that I almost strangled someone. Looking back that was an interesting experience because In could 'see myself' doing it but was completely detached. Nowadays though I channel it productively, but that could be as much of a coping mechanism as it not belonging to me.

I was going through something in my mind one day when my Guide popped in with a question. "What is the Spirituality of sitting on the toilet?" Ask yourself that question, come up with an answer and in the very next breath ask "What just happened?"

In answer to another question I had about vibrations he said "It is encompassing." In cymatics the higher the vibrations the more complex the patterns. Spirituality is full of contradictions, exclusions, dualities, ironies..... Questions like is renouncing more noble than experiencing, or is non-attachment the crowning glory? Wouldn't the vibratory patterns be more complex if we could encompass and experience all of those things as aspects of a wider reality?

Then again, some people do like their labels.

[Kerubiel]

Originally Posted by God-Like

So do you perceive the body and the ailments as a part of you?

Peeps can renounce many self aspects, but one can associate what that is with themselves on one hand and not on the other .

For example one can renounce their desires of the material but still maintain the connection that this is a part of them that they don't like .

For some they would renounce their personality traits because such traits are belonging to an illusory self.


x daz x

Well in a way I do perceive them as me. I perceive the body of awareness, what we have come to know, as myself. If, and when, I came across harmful knowledge of the body that knowledge became a part of me the moment \I began intending and supporting it. It is my job to clean the body of knowledge. To begin supporting a positive body.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by Kerubiel

Well in a way I do perceive them as me. I perceive the body of awareness, what we have come to know, as myself. If, and when, I came across harmful knowledge of the body that knowledge became a part of me the moment \I began intending and supporting it. It is my job to clean the body of knowledge. To begin supporting a positive body.

I think the crux of the matter is where one's awareness of I AM is .

For instance when an individual has a near death experience or is astral travelling or is entertaining some deep meditative state then there is perhaps minimal or no awareness of their own physical mind-body connection .

In deep sleep / samadhi there is no self reflection had of feeling this way or that way about what was experienced earlier on in the day . The connection is no more .

I believe what happens is that the experience / realization of what you are beyond self is related to one's true nature so to then be aware of a connected mind-body and experience anger and such likes one can then dismiss such thoughts and expressions and distance themselves from that ... simply because there has been the awareness of a self that does not entertain anger .

The key in my eyes is that no-self cannot be angry only self can be angry ..

To distance the anger from themselves based upon the awareness had of no self is in a way missing out on the experience of anger ..

Another thought is that one doesn't miss out on the experience of anger one just denies their anger ..


x daz x

[LiberatedLotus]

I've never identified with my body, heart, or mind.
I view them as vessels, tools if you will, to aid in
my souls journey of evolution.
I, also, honor these vessels, and therefore cherish
them as temples. They, I feel, are interconnected
with another & again serve the higher purpose.
However. knowing the truths of the Universe,
I maintain a detachment from them.

[God-Like]

Originally Posted by LiberatedLotus

I've never identified with my body, heart, or mind.
I view them as vessels, tools if you will, to aid in
my souls journey of evolution.
I, also, honor these vessels, and therefore cherish
them as temples. They, I feel, are interconnected
with another & again serve the higher purpose.
However. knowing the truths of the Universe,
I maintain a detachment from them.

Can you cherish the body without attachment?


x daz x